Fact Check: Michigan US Senate Debate – Rogers vs. El-Sayed Claims Analyzed

in America. Tonight, [music] they are debating live from WXYZ in Detroit, confronting the issues shaping your

life, your family, and your vote. >> I would [music] like to see a change in gas prices.

>> I want it to be safer. >> Healthcare. >> I would like to see term limits.

>> I am tired of the high prices. >> For me,

>> education. >> Each candidate [music] will have 90 seconds for opening

statements, 1 minute to answer questions [music] with a 30-second rebuttal, and 90 seconds for closing statements. 1

hour, [music] one stage, one opportunity to make their case to Michigan voters. [music]

>> We need to be at those polls. >> I believe it's our civic duty to vote. >> Hearing live for voters from Monroe to

Marquette, WXYZ's US Senate debate begins right now. >> Live from the Channel 7 studio in

Southfield, Michigan. This is the Michigan [music] US Senate debate. >> Good evening, and welcome to WXYZ's

Michigan US Senate debate. I am 7 News Detroit anchor, Carolyn Clifford. >> And I'm WXYZ editorial and public

affairs director, Chuck Stokes. >> And I'm 7 News Detroit anchor, Alicia Smith.

>> We have been listening to people across Metro Detroit and the great state of Michigan, compiling questions that

matter most to you, the people who call Michigan home. Tonight is about those voters. The questions we will be asking

will be very direct, and we will be looking for direct answers. [music] >> And we will also expect both candidates

to follow the rules previously agreed upon with both of their campaigns. But first, thank you to our guests for

agreeing to be here tonight. Republican candidate, former Congressman Mike Rogers, and Democratic candidate Dr.

Abdul El-Sayed. >> Earlier, we held a drawing with both campaigns to decide who gets to go first

with their 90-second opening statement. We'll start with Congressman Rogers followed by Dr. El Sayed. Congressman

Rogers, your opening statement. >> Well, thank you very much for hosting us this evening. Welcome uh viewers at

home. Mike Rogers, former Army officer and special agent with the FBI. Uh used to handling hard and difficult

challenges. You know, my wife and I got into this race because Michigan is in trouble. Uh

our people are hurting. When you think about what's happened just in the last 8 years, 27,000

manufacturing jobs lost, highest utilities in the Midwest. We have the highest auto insurance rates in the

nation. We have our education system has plummeted. We're now 45th in the country. Overall economics, we're 46th.

And I think what you're going to hear tonight is uh very different view of how we fix these

problems, how we get Michigan back up and running again. One, a candidate who's aligned with the

Democratic Socialists of America, bigger government, more taxes. Matter of fact, has a has a uh

carbon tax that he wants to put on that would give you the highest utility rates, over $2,000 in new costs.

You have the fact that uh gasoline would go up about 20 cents a gallon. So, what you think about uh bigger

government, more taxes, more regulation is just not the way we get this done. And my opponent's going to try to make

this about me versus him, but I'm going to tell you this is about you and Michigan's future, and I look forward to

that conversation. >> Thank you, Congressman. Dr. El Sayed, you have 90 seconds for your opening

statement. >> First of all, thank you so much for hosting this. We're honored to be here.

My name is Abdul El Sayed. I'm a doctor. I'm a dad. I rebuilt Detroit's health department, led Wayne County's

Department of Health, Human, and Veteran Services. We put glasses on kids, took on corporate polluters, eliminated

medical debt. And I'm running cuz it just shouldn't be this hard. Shouldn't be this hard to afford a second bag of

groceries. Shouldn't be this hard to pay your rent or your mortgage. Shouldn't be this hard to fill up your tank.

Shouldn't be this hard to see a doctor. Shouldn't be this hard to pay your taxes and know that that money's going to be

spent for you and your kids rather than dropping bombs on somebody else and their kids.

You know, Mike is right. You're going [clears throat] to hear two very different visions. You're going to hear

the MAGA vision where you stand hip-to-hip with Donald Trump on all of his worst policies. The policies that

are raising the price of your gas, making it impossible to afford your groceries. And you're going to hear a

form of MAGA bingo because the thing about MAGA is whenever they're talking, they are trying to distract

you. They're going to use buzzwords. And I'm hoping that y'all can play at home. Every time you hear one of those

buzzwords, just remember, when they're distracting you, they're also trying to pick your pocket. It's a form of

corporatized bribery. And in the end, I don't take money from corporations. I'm looking to fight for

you. So, while Mike wants to spend a lot of time talking about me, I'm going to be talking about you and your family.

What can we do to bring down the prices that are just destroying families right now? How do we make sure the folks can

look forward and believe in the life that they're building for their kids and their grandkids. And I'm looking forward

to a good, serious, honest, and fair debate. >> Thank you very much, gentlemen, for your

opening statements. Carolyn. >> Thank you much, Alicia, and thank you, gentlemen. Uh now, let's get to the

first question of the evening. It is about the economy. We're going to start with you, Dr. El-Sayed. Um

>> [clears throat] >> one of the top concerns we've heard from our viewers is, of course, the cost of

living. Families are struggling with the cost of groceries, with the cost of gas, and other essentials. What specific

legislation would you support in the Senate to bring down the cost and put more money into the pockets of

Michiganders? You have 60 seconds, sir. >> Look, when I led Wayne County's Department of Health, Human, and

Veterans Veterans Services, we were working specifically to make life more affordable for folks. It's the reason we

built a program to provide free health insurance for new small businesses to help them. And we led and provided small

business health insurance for over a thousand Wayne County businesses. But here's the thing about it. Right now,

the cost of gas, the cost of groceries, it all really goes back to this war in Iran. We need a war powers resolution

rather than a senator who is going to stand hip to hip with Donald Trump on this war that made no sense when it

started and certainly makes no sense now. I'm looking forward to standing with my colleagues in the United States

Senate to hold Donald Trump accountable for this war. The other thing that we're going to need to do is take on the

corporations who've bought and sold politicians for a very long time. Whether it's DTE who spent $64,000

helping to support my opponent, or it's Blue Cross Blue Shield, or it's Big Tech, or it's Big Pharma, all

corporations who bought them off. We've got to stand up to them. Make sure that they they are being held accountable and

that you don't get raked over the coals for the kind of politicians that they buy to rig the system against us.

>> That is your time, Dr. El-Sayed. Thank you so much. Uh Congressman Rogers, same question for you.

>> Families are struggling with the cost of groceries, gas, and other essentials. What specific legislation would you

support in the Senate to bring down the cost and put more money into the pockets of Michiganders?

>> Yeah, we need to continue to explore American energy and get American energy into the market. That's going to go a

long way in lowering prices and lowering gas prices and diesel prices and other things. I'm going to make permanent the

uh tax cuts on overtime and tips and social security. Those have had huge impacts on people who are actually

getting up, going, uh kissing their kids, putting them on the bus, and going to work every day. Those become really,

really important. And an overall tax environment that in encourages business to start. Uh my opponent, unfortunately,

has this massive tax increase that he wants to put on every Michigan family and every American family. We've seen

this before and it has dragged the economy down. And just quickly, uh it's a little bit rich to me that my

opponent talks about corporate donations. He snuck into Chuck Schumer's office and asked and begged for

corporate money and you see it on TV today, $35 million of corporate packed money flowing all over this state.

>> That is your time, Congressman. Thank you. Dr. El Sayed, you now have 30 seconds for rebuttal.

>> Yeah, what's curious is that he does not want to talk about the $64,000 he took from DTE, the million dollars more than

95% of Congress that he took from Big Pharma and then voted 19 times to keep your prescription drug prices high.

Doesn't want to talk about the $14 million he made on the back of advising the same corporations he was regulating

when he was in Congress. Does not want to talk about his own record when it comes to bowing down to the corporations

who make your life harder and charge you more for the things that you need in your life. That is Maga politics again.

You could have knocked off one of the words right on Maga bingo right there. >> Dr. That is your time, Congressman. You

now have 30 seconds for rebuttal. >> Yeah, I mean this is just so rich. Uh everything that he said A is not

accurate, not correct. But you know, when you ask somebody a new investigator about how you figure out if somebody's

honest and really willing to tell you the truth, you go through a series of questions. Did you lie on your resume?

Yep, did. He lied about being a physician. Did he lie about his relationships with an organization that

should give us all pause? Yep, he did. He lied about being an Egyptian dual citizen. He lied about some of his

stances >> Congressman, that is your time. >> as he slipped again. This is a pattern

that we need to understand. >> Thank you very much. >> to to trust this candidate.

>> Chuck, you have the next question. >> Thank you, Carolyn. Candidates, we'll continue along the economic theme but

drill down on a specific area. The Trump administration has used tariffs as a major trade policy tool. In your view,

have those tariffs helped or hurt American workers, consumers, and manufacturers? Congressman, you have 1

minute. >> it's a mixed bag, but here's what I will tell you. The the reshoring of

manufacturing is underway. I completely support that. I'm in line with the UAW on those issues. The Chevy Silverado is

built in Mexico today. Guess what? By 2027, it's coming back going to the Orion plant. We're also Chevy is also

bringing manufacturing back from China. This is huge. Detroit Diesel adding a third shift. Some of these small

fabrication shops adding second shifts and or third shifts for the first time in decades. Those are a positive

development for the great state of Michigan. I have stepped back and said maybe these Canadian tariffs were not

well thought through mainly because of the interaction between our automobile companies in Canada when it comes

just-in-time manufacturing. So, I'll go back and you might you might want to send the guy back who can actually get

the meeting to get these things worked out. If it's good for Michigan, I'm going to be for it. If it's bad for

Michigan, I'm going to be against it. >> Congressman, thank you. Dr. Sayed, the same question. I'll repeat it for

clarification. The Trump administration has used tariffs as a major trade tool. In your view, have those tariffs helped

or hurt American workers, consumers, and manufacturers? You have 1 minute. >> Clearly, these tariffs have hurt

American American manufacturers. Clearly, they [clears throat] have hurt the American worker. Clearly, they have

hurt our pocketbooks. $5,600 on average we're paying for this. He cheered this. Now, he said he was in

line with the UAW. I'll tell you the UAW is not in line with him. They've endorsed me and they are dead set

against the policies that he is backing. In fact, GM just posted the single biggest stock buyback in automotive

history. Something he's backed for a very long time. A corporate politician. Let's talk exactly about how this could

work. NAFTA, which he supported, was a terrible cancer on the American economy. If we want to treat cancer, maybe

there's a kind of tariff you you use as chemotherapy, but you don't give all the chemo all at once all at the same time.

Instead, you have to be real clear about what you want to do. I think we need to use tariffs specifically around how we

can protect certain automotive opportunities, the opportunities for growth in jobs that we actually need

rather than this haphazard approach which he has backed just like he backed NAFTA.

>> All right. Thank you very Congressman, you now have 30 seconds for rebuttal. >> Yeah, again, just this pattern of

deception uh misleading. By the way, NAFTA was passed about 10 years before I got into Congress. This is really kind

of a ridiculous argument. But, here's what we need to understand. What my opponent or is actually calling

for uh is the largest tax increase in the in the nation's history. The largest. And [clears throat] why UAW

members UAW for Rogers is our fast-growing coalition for us, they understand that he wants to take away

private health insurance that they've collectively bargained and he's going to take it away and give it to the

government. >> Thank you, Congressman. Dr. Elsayed, >> Those buzzwords.

>> Those playing mega bingo at home, you just heard like three of the buzzwords. >> I just want to be clear. He literally is

on record having said that in the long term NAFTA would be good for the American worker.

>> year was that? >> He said that NAFTA would be good for the American worker.

>> I did not. >> I think everybody could have told you NAFTA was going to be disaster for the

American worker. He has this long history of just being wrong on all of these issues and then comes in and tries

to tell you that somehow I'm being deceptive. It's your record, my guy. Just own your record. That's all you got

to do. >> Yeah. You should be honest about the record. That would help.

>> All right. Gentlemen, that's time. Alicia, you have the next question. >> We turn now to the war with Iran and

I'll direct this question to you first, Dr. Elsayed. The United States has used military force against Iran, a decision

that has divided Americans. Do you believe that Iran poses a significant threat to US national security and what

should America's strategy be moving forward? Dr. Sayed, you have Elsayed you have 60 seconds.

>> There's no doubt that Iran has posed a threat. Here's the problem with it though, is that that threat had been

contained back during the Obama administration when he used diplomacy and not war to contain the threat. It

was called the JCPOA. And Donald Trump, when he came in his first term, decided to rip that

agreement up. And then, in his second term, decided to make war. Now, mind you, Mike Rogers has been promoting this

war since before he was in Congress. He's got a war for everything. And he won't back off the war now. He supports

this war. And I want you to understand exactly what happened now. The consequences of this war are that you

are paying nearly $5 in gas. You're paying more in groceries because of the price of diesel. He has cheer-led this

war all along because he stands hip to hip with Donald Trump. And if you don't believe me, I want you to pay attention

on Sunday when Donald Trump comes here at the invitation of Mike Rogers to remind you that in fact that Donald

Trump is on the ballot through Mike Rogers. They are hip to hip on this war, and you are paying the cost.

>> Thank you, Dr. Elsayed. Congressman Rogers, I'll repeat the question for you. Do you believe Iran poses a

significant threat to US national security, and what should America's strategy be moving forward? You have 60

seconds. >> Yeah, absolutely it's a threat. Uh my opponent can't even condemn the IRGC,

which is the terrorist enforcement arm of Iran, uh and doesn't believe Iran is any more

dangerous than Israel. This is an absolute non-starter if you're going to send somebody back to the United States

Senate. They had the capability, I was I left Congress in 2014. At that time, they had all three components of a

nuclear program. The big debate was, how do you put those things together, and how long would it take them to do that?

Obviously, something triggered that, uh where they needed to stop them from developing and putting those three

pieces together to get a nuclear weapon. I absolutely believe you want to pay $8 a gallon of gas, let Iran get a nuclear

weapon, you lose control of that whole region. They have also created Hamas, financed it, trained it, same with

Hezbollah, same with the Houthis. Uh Hamas is the one that went across the border on October 7th. That operation

was funded by Iran. They are still a threat to the United States of America. >> Congressman Rogers, thank you. You have

the first 30-second rebuttal, Dr. Elsayed. >> He just had an opportunity

to make clear what he thought about this war, and he's still cheerleading the war that you are paying for. A war we never

should have fought in the first place. You send this man to the US Senate, do not be surprised when we fight more

wars, we accrue more national debt, and he does not stand up for you or the price of your gas or the price of your

groceries. Why? He's bought off by the same weapons manufacturers. AIPAC, we just heard, is going to put what, 9

million into this campaign in the next 2 weeks alone? Well, that's what you get when you have an AIPAC-backed

politician. >> Thank you, Dr. Elsayed. Congressman Rogers, second rebuttal, 30 seconds.

>> Yeah, so being bought off by the Muslim Brotherhood, having donors to his campaign from Hamas that support uh

Hezbollah is not a problem? If you are going to go to the United States Senate, we need to know, are you for America or

are you for these uh terrorist groups overseas? Uh you can grin and you can smile and

you can talk real pretty, but I'm going to tell you what, that is a risk to our national security. Matter of fact, the

New York Times gave him an option to condemn his comments supporting the >> problem. He said Morrissey and

he said, "No comment. No comment." And he >> Our apologies. We do need to move on,

Carolyn. >> it in the next question in your time, uh Dr. Elsayed. Uh this next question is

about immigration and border security. Uh Congressman Rogers, what changes, if any, would you make to current

immigration and border policies, and how would you balance enforcement, legal immigration, and asylum claims? 60

seconds, sir. >> So, we have to actually make sure the border stays secure. What has happened

in the last 2 years is amazing. We've had a 20% drop nationally in murders.

Uh the enforcement, ICE enforcement, has gone after rapists and murderers and gangbangers and drug dealers and human

traffickers, and it has had a tremendous impact on crime. My argument we should continue to do that. Find those folks

who are committing crimes and get them the heck out of the country, but you also have to maintain that border. My

opponent is on record, in his own words, talking about uh open borders. Matter of fact,

he wants to give them driver's license, and he also wants to give them uh Medicare when they get here. I mean, it

is You want to talk about two stark differences, this may be that issue. Well, there's a whole bunch, but this is

a big one because we have got to continue to secure the border, get the illegal criminals who are committing

crimes out of the country to keep communities safe. >> Congressman, that is your time. Thank

you so much. Dr. El Sayed, same question for you. What changes, if any, would you make to current immigration and border

policies, and how would you balance enforcement, legal immigration, and asylum claims?

>> So, let's be clear. We've got to keep the border secure, all of our borders secure.

>> He voted to defund border security when he was in Congress. He conveniently likes to forget that, and he

>> Yeah, it says your record, my guy. It's your record. Just own your record. >> And

on that, no, let's also talk about immigration enforcement. He supports ICE running through your streets. They don't

have to tell you who they are. They don't have to tell you why they're there. He supports them walking into

your kids' preschool or your Home Depot or your place of worship for detentions. And I just think that that's illegal

because we have a constitution in this country that guarantees basic rights to people.

That is his approach. He wants to stand arm in arm with Donald Trump around what ICE has been doing. I believe that we

don't need ICE. In fact, we can go back to INS, back when we were a lot more safe and secure when it came to

immigration. And then we need to make sure we have a clear pathway to citizenship so that people can come here

and take opportunities that are legal for them. I talked to a farmer who can't find people to actually pick their crop

because they're too afraid to come. That is the kind of economy that my opponent's policies would create.

>> you so much. Congressman Rogers, you now have 30 seconds for rebuttal. >> This is again that whole pattern of

deception is just really incredible. He's wants to abolish ICE. He wants to open the border. He wants to

decriminalize people who cross the border. Right? All of the things we know got us tens of millions of people

running across the border. He wants to defund the police. This is [clears throat] somebody who

does not understand he's so married to that Democrat socialist agenda that he can't get out in front of it now. And

what he's saying now is not what he's been saying for the last 18 months. >> Your time, Congressman Dr. Elsayed, you

have 30 seconds for rebuttal. >> I'm sure somebody at home has won MAGA bingo right now cuz it's all the

buzzwords cuz he does not want to actually talk about substance, does want not want to own his own record.

Literally voted to defund border security. That is your record. You don't want to own it. You don't want to talk

about it because you are embarrassed of it. And you are also embarrassed of the fact that you cannot win this race

without Donald Trump coming here and stumping for you. That's why you begged him to come. This is what you're going

to get. Donald Trump policies. If you like the way things have been for the last 2 years, this is what he wants.

It's not working for any of us. This kind of chaos just doesn't work. >> Thank you both gentlemen. Chuck, you

have the next question. >> Thank you Carolyn. Uh this next question we're going to turn to a completely

different topic but it's certainly one we've been getting just dozens of letters on. It's health care.

Health care costs in America continue to rise outpacing US inflation and placing a growing burden on individuals and

families. If elected, would you work to expand, modify, or roll back policies of the Affordable Care Act? And please be

very specific. Dr. Elsayed, you begin. >> I think as everybody knows by now, money out of politics, money or pocket, and

Medicare for all. That's building on the incredible success of the Affordable Care Act. A bill, by the way, that my

opponent absolutely voted against. That and I think we need to be serious about prescription drug prices. Look, my

background is in getting people health care. I rebuilt Detroit's health department, led Wayne County's

Department of Health, Human, and Veteran Services. We led a health insurance program that provided small businesses

high-quality health insurance. We expanded access to prescription drugs for seniors. That is the work I know.

It's also the work that we need to take to the United States Senate. We cannot afford to have a United States Senator

who is in bed with Big Pharma. Took a million dollars to run his previous campaigns, voted 19 times to keep

prescription drug prices high. That ad you've seen of him standing in front of Canada and talking about how much more

expensive prescription drug prices are here, he literally voted four times against you being able to buy

prescription drug prices in Canada. I know, he's about to deny it, but that's his record and he probably should own up

to you. >> Very, very good. Just clarification. Expanding the Affordable Care. All

right. All right. Congressman, you now [snorts] have 1 minute. >> Yeah. This is absolutely rich to me.

This is again, this pattern of deception that this candidate has done for the last 18 months. So, he was for all

Medicare for all and by the way, which takes away your private health health insurance. 5

million Michiganders will lose their health care and it will destroy Medicare for seniors. That's what he's talking

about. And that's why UAW for Rogers are here. That's why they're coming to our campaign. People understand just how

ridiculous this is. There are other Democrats that will not support this plan. Because it's outrageously

expensive. It would be about $7 trillion a year in new expenses, about $20,000 per family in new taxes. And oh, by the

way, you have to go back in the line of the government. That's what he's proposing. So, all of this other

nonsense that he's talking about is absolutely not true. We just called to make sure that more drugs are into the

pot of drugs that you can get that you don't have to worry about going to Canada to get them and paying

>> Time. >> American prices. >> All right. And clarification, not

expanding, correct? >> Oh, I think we it needs a reform. >> Okay, very good. Dr. Elsayed, your

30-second rebuttal. >> Clearly he chose not to answer the question cuz nobody knows better

about denying people health insurance than Mike Rogers. Voted against expanding health insurance

for kids. For kids. Voted against it. Why? Because he's in bed with big insurance. Took a million dollars from

big insurance. He's about to deny it, of course. But this is his record. He, in fact, told an amputee, a first responder

on from 9/11, who had lost a limb, that he did not want to expand insurance even for him. Even for him. Because it was

{quote} a {quote} a New York problem. Nobody knows more about taking away your health insurance than he does.

>> All right. Thank you. Congressman, your rebuttal, 30 seconds, please.

>> ridiculously outrageous. The guy, the FBI guy, the military guy is going to do that. I actually put in $150 million to

make sure our 9/11 heroes are taken care of. That was back then. I left Congress in 2014. So, I know they've they've

plussed up that pot. But what he says, this Listen, you have to understand, he is saying things like it means it, like

it's factual. It's not. It is not even close. He'll keep repeating it. He'll keep saying this is about Donald Trump.

This is really about America and who believes that America is going to be a better place with me as senator.

>> Thank you very much, Elissa. >> Our next topic is on Social Security. Congressman Rogers, we'll begin with

you. Social Security's Retirement Trust Fund is projected to be depleted in 2032.

If Congress does not act, beneficiaries could face automatic reductions in future payments. What specific changes,

if any, would you support to strengthen Social Security's finances and ensure its long-term stability? Congressman

Yoho, you have 60 seconds. >> an important issue for so many people. And I think a lot of people don't

realize that by law there would be a cut in 2032. My family is on Social Security. I have a brother

on disability. My in-laws are on Social Security. It's an important part of their financial picture as they go

forward. We must fix this. I think the best way to do this is put people in a room. It's got to be bipartisan to get

it done. The first thing I would do is go after this 500 billion dollars, half a trillion

dollars, in fraud that just came out in the congressional committees that they haven't got to yet. If we're going to

solve these problems for Social Security and Medicare, by the way, this is also going to get a cut, we have to get rid

of the fraud that's built into the system. As a former cybersecurity guy for the last decade, I can tell you

there are a lot of things that we can do to make sure that we get fraud out of the system. That's a 500 billion dollar

shot, which is a long way. Get a bipartisan solution >> Time.

>> on what we do to make sure that Social Security is there for the future. >> I'll repeat the question for you, Dr.

Ruiz Sayed. What specific changes, if any, would you support to strengthen Social Security's finances and ensure

its long-term stability? Dr. Ruiz Sayed, you have 60 seconds. >> I think the answer is very easy and

really quite simple. I think we need to scrap the cap, meaning the cap that makes sure that rich people like Mike

don't have to pay their fair share into the program. I think we need to get rid of that, so that the rich pay their fair

share and the program becomes sustainable. I also think it's crazy that we tax Social Security. I mean,

that's ridiculous. It's It's basically a tax. You pay into the system. The idea that you get taxed on the back end is a

problem and it's made it very difficult for seniors to survive. But I want you to pay attention to a word he just said,

which is cut and fraud. You know they're coming for a program just like he has come for the

program when they start talking about fraud. Cuz what happens is they run their audits and then they say there's

so much fraud in it and then they privatize it, which Mike is on record as saying he wanted to do. I also said he

wanted to raise the retirement age to 67. I'm so sorry, but you don't work this hard to be told that you got to

work two more years. You don't work this hard to give your money to Wall Street like he wants to do. So be careful when

they start talking about fraud cuz it means that they're going to cut the program right out from underneath you.

>> Thank you, Dr. El Sayed. 30-second first rebuttal for Congressman Rogers. >> who know Abdul the best are sending up

flares for caution. The guy that worked with him in his gubernatorial campaign and then the Senate campaign said this

guy will go to one group and tell them one thing 2 hours later and tell them another. He said he's a manufactured

candidate. He's no longer with the campaign cuz he couldn't take it. Think of that. And this is why people like the

Democrat Senator from New Jersey described him as a fringe candidate. This is why Van Jones,

>> Uh Congressman Rogers, that's your time. Thank you. >> his policies are insane.

>> Dr. El Sayed, your 30-second rebuttal. >> Look, again, MAGA bingo. I'm sure like half

the family's won by this point. Cuz remember, when they're distracting you, it's because they're picking your

pocket. This is who he is. He doesn't actually want to talk about the issue. Didn't rebut the point that I made. You

know exactly where he's going. I said that he wants to privatize it. I said that he wants to

raise the age. He said nothing except for pointed at me. Now, he said he wanted to make this about your family.

Yeah, he wants to cut your family's retirement budget. So you want grandma and grandpa working until they're like

80-something, Mike Rogers is your guy. >> Thank you very much, gentlemen. Carolyn? >> All right. Thank you so much, Alicia.

Now, let's turn to public safety, shall we? Dr. Elsayed, uh what federal laws or funding priorities would you pursue in

the Senate to make Michigan communities safer? >> We all want to get home safe at night.

That's true if you're a member of the community, it's true if you're law enforcement. I believe that we need to

fund the police when it comes to retirement, retention, recruitment. I believe that we also need to fund the

things that Donald Trump and Mike Rogers have backed to defunding. Things like behavioral health response, things like

community violence intervention. I also think that we need to make sure that we have invested in the means of public

safety across our communities by making sure that folks who have been in the system get full access to good education

so they don't wind themselves back into the system. Now, Mike's going to talk a good game about his law enforcement

bonafides. But, here's the thing I want you to remember, and he's again not going to own it, it's his record,

though. He voted, while he was in Congress, against funding that would have invested in Michigan State Police,

would have invested millions in Michigan State Police. That's his record. Mine, working alongside law enforcement,

improving the the uh the operations of our um of our uh medical examiner's office to improve time on on scene.

>> time. Thank you so much. Congressman Rogers, same question for you. What federal laws or funding priorities would

you pursue in the Senate to make Michigan communities safer? >> Yeah. So, uh as a law enforcement folks

who actually worked the street, uh in uh the FBI, may one of the things that we can do,

there's a Memphis project where they infused uh several of the different federal agencies to work with locals to

go after guns, uh gang crime, and it's made a tremendous difference. I think that would be a huge asset here uh in

the state. The fact that we would vote against something that would fund the state

police, I mean, this guy is got new uh new false information about every 30 seconds. I will tell you this,

he did call for defunding the police. And how we found it is he deleted all of this material. Why would you do that?

Why would you go through and take all of that time to delete all of the material, ex videos, comments, podcasts? Why?

Because he was passionate about defunding the police. As a matter of fact, he asked

the the new brother Muslim Brotherhood, excuse me, head

Morsi in Egypt to defund the police there, too. I mean, it's unbelievable. >> Let's actually just talk about this.

Let's talk about this. He he keeps raising this question about this association with an organization I've

never been a part of. Be because my mom, who's a nurse in Missouri, it doesn't make any sense. And

it's actually really quite beneath you, Mike. It's really quite beneath you. >> It's not

>> To call into question my loyalty to the Constitution. I'm talking. I'm talking. >> All right.

>> I'm talking. >> Well, own up to it. >> Excuse me. Yeah, go ahead.

>> Can I have a few more seconds? >> Yes, go go ahead. >> Thank you.

To bring into question my commitment to the Constitution is really beneath you. I am proud of America. I'm proud to be

an American. I'm proud of our Constitution that guarantees all of us the right to pray as we choose to pray.

And the question that you would ask that, I think it's actually really quite shameful as somebody who's actually

served under that Constitution. It is shame. Shameful. >> You now [clears throat] have 30 seconds

for a rebuttal. >> You know, I wore the uniform of the United States proudly as my son did, my

wife served, my brother served, my father served so you could pray any way you want. And I know you want to make

this about you being a victim. This is about an ideology. An ideology that's banned in five Muslim countries. An

ideology that's banned in another six different countries. An ideology that is very concerning to law enforcement in

the United States because they use it for funding overseas operations. That's the difference.

>> Thank you, Carolyn. Chuck, >> let's turn our attention to another very important issue, artificial

intelligence. For better or worse, the vast majority of our electronic devices contain some degree of artificial

intelligence. Congress has the constitutional power to regulate AI. Are you in favor of exercising that power on

a federal level? Should it be up to the individual states, or should government not interfere with this growing

technology? Congressman Rogers, you have 1 minute. >> Yeah, so I've again been in the

cybersecurity business for the last decade. Uh AI is a real concern. Uh and we've seen where this the uh some of

these uh algorithms have escaped out of their sandbox and done some real damage to

companies. I support the National Security Framework for AI to make sure that they uh there's a some oversight on

how these companies are developing AI, that they would have the opportunity to control, including an up to maybe even a

kill switch to make sure these things don't go wrong on you. The other part uh of this, there's

there's a a kind of a thin uh bill I'd like to be a part of when I get there that would allow antitrust

exemption for companies to work together on safety. I mean, this is such a huge issue. We need to make sure these

companies are cooperating on the safety of AI, nothing else, so it has to be a narrow band. I think if you do both of

those, we'd have a really good chance to making sure we can still stay competitive,

>> Time. >> make but keep it safe. >> Thank you, Congressman. I'll repeat the

gist of the question for you, Dr. Elsayed. Are you in favor of exercising the power that you would have if elected

to the US Senate? Do you would you like to do it on a federal level?

Should it be up to to individual states, or should government not interfere with this growing technology?

>> We absolute absolutely need federal leadership on this question. Right now, AI is an existential risk. Just to

explain this, if you've ever seen the movie Fantasia, where all of a sudden the broomsticks start making other

broomsticks, yeah, that's what we're talking about. It's called recursive self-improvement. And we are on the cusp

of getting there. We need a pause on frontier research. We also need to address the fact that we don't have the

regulatory infrastructure in the government to oversee the development of AI. We also need to address the fact

that even the CEOs of these corporations think they could take 50% of the white-collar jobs over the next 5 to 10

years. So, we need to make sure that we have AI under democracy, meaning that there's going to be democratically

appointed folks on the boards of these AI corporations. There also should be AI no-gos. AI should not be able to fire

you, shouldn't be able to fire a weapon, shouldn't be able to deny you health insurance. I just want to be clear.

People like him are invested in the AI industry as it stands, and so they are not going to stand up to it. In fact,

they're spending to support him in this campaign. >> All right. Congressman Rogers, your

rebuttal, 30 seconds. >> Yeah. I mean, this this whole thing is just a

little bit laughable to me. He's invested in AI through his mutual funds. If you are in the stock market, what

he's saying is people are probably invested in AI. That's why he is so deceiving, and that's why there's this

pattern of deception that he likes to patter on about, uh, which is dangerous. And he said the quiet part out loud. He

wants government to go into these businesses. That is the Democrat Socialists of America coming for your

business, uh, and your future. And so, you need to really stop for a minute and think about do you want somebody who

wants the government involved in these companies. >> Thank you, Congressman.

Dr. Elsayed, you have 30 seconds. >> Look at it. You got a guy who can't even respect the rules of this debate. And he

loves to lie because he's invested what, $2.6 million direct funding in a corporation that's building a data

center in Solon Township. He doesn't want to talk about it, but there's a difference between a mutual fund and

invested directly in a corporation building a data center in people's backyards.

At the end of the day, if you want corporate government, you've got corporate government right here. They're

going to get rich, and you you're going to pay the cost. >> All right. Thank you very much,

gentlemen. Elsayed, you now have the next question. >> We're going to jump to Michigan jobs and

the auto industry. Dr. Elsayed, Michigan's auto industry faces pressure from tariffs, changing fuel economy

rules, and global competition. What is the most important federal policy you would pursue to protect Michigan auto

jobs and keep the state competitive? Dr. Elsayed, you have 60 seconds. >> Well, we just saw GM do the biggest

stock buyback in automotive history. It's personal to me. My dad came to this country to design and build cars. He

worked for GM. He told me in 1996 that if a car company's more interested in its short-term finances than it's

interested in its engineers and its workers, it's not going to be a car company very long. 2008 rolls around,

and we all know that GM had to take a bailout. That's all politics that enables or comes from the enablement of

corporations paying off politicians to look the other way on exactly that. I want to ban stock buybacks. While we're

at it, I want us to continue to be the world's leader in internal combustion engine research and manufacturing. We've

got to be the world's leaders, what my dad came here to build. But we also can't cede the future of auto to China.

So, I think we need to say, what would happen if we decided to throw the gauntlet down and build a 300-mile range

$25,000 EV. We tariffed around EVs, we invested in that, and then we could continue to win both the future of

internal combustion and EVs. >> you, Dr. Elsayed. Congressman Rogers, I'll pose the question to you again.

What is the most important federal policy that you would pursue to protect Michigan auto jobs and keep the state

competitive. 60 seconds. >> Yeah, the very first thing we have to do is ban the ability for the Chinese to

build cars in the United States. That is the single number one existential threat to our automobile industry here.

Remember that China doesn't come here to make profits, they come here to steal market share. And so when they talk

about showing up or they build them in Canada and trying to try to talk them about coming across the bridge, we need

to stop that at the border and we need to make sure that it is very clear in the law that those Chinese cars can't be

built right here in the United States. >> Thank you, Congressman Rogers. 30 seconds rebuttal for you, Dr. Elsayed.

>> It's funny because the person who's inviting them to come and build in the United States is his favorite president,

the guy he's campaigning with on Sunday. So, I'm just trying to figure out how this is going to go. Donald Trump's

going to help him get into the United States Senate and then he's going to turn around and stand up to Trump cuz,

you know, we've got a real history of Republican senators standing up to Donald Trump right now. I don't see it

happening. So, he's going to talk a good game like he usually does, but he's going to bend to Donald Trump because he

is a sock puppet for the man. The only reason he's running, of course, is because Trump called him and asked him

to do it. >> Congressman Rogers, 30 seconds rebuttal for you.

>> You know, again, he wants to make this about Donald Trump. I mean, the bingo game ought to be how many

times can he put the word Trump in any answer, any answer that he has given in the last whatever 30 minutes. It's

ridiculous. This is really about the best way forward for Michigan. I'm the only guy that can go back just like we

did on the Gordie Howe Bridge. They said no, I got in there, we got it open. Just like the FEMA money for up north when

the administration and the governor's office were fighting about it, I got that fixed. You want somebody can

actually accomplish what's good for Michigan. And I'll be for good, won't be for if it's if it's bad for

Michigan. >> Thank you, Carolyn. >> Thank you so much, Alicia. We're going

to talk about something that a lot of people here in Michigan are worried about, and that's education. Uh

Congressman Rogers, Michigan ranks 44th in the nation in fourth-grade reading, and just 25% of our fourth-graders

scored at or above proficient on the 2024 National Assessment of Educational Progress. What would you do in the US

Senate to improve reading and math achievement and expand educational opportunity for Michigan students?

>> Yep, this is really what got my wife uh us and I into this game for running for the United States Senate. If you can't

read in the fourth grade by the fourth grade, you have a 70% chance of being on welfare or going to prison. 70.

Two-thirds of Michigan fourth-graders cannot read in the fourth grade. That is unacceptable. I argue it's criminal.

You've just put them on a path to poverty. So, I'm going to use Title 1 money. We're going to have reading

reclamation program between third and fourth grade. Uh is phonics-based to get those kids back reading. And we also

have a program my wife and I are very big into Beyond Basics. It's a not-for-profit here that's been doing

work for for literacy for a long time to make sure that older kids also have the opportunity to reclaim their reading.

You can do it in 4 to 16 weeks depending on where your reading level is. It's absolutely doable. And if we don't do

it, we're going to lose, and it's going to be bad for all of us. And I also want to put shop back in schools and get kids

uh to uh skilled trades as well. >> Congressman, that's your time. Thank you so much. Uh Dr. El-Sayed, same thing to

you. Michigan ranks 44th in the nation in fourth-grade reading, and just 25% of our fourth-graders scored at or above

proficient on the 2024 National Assessment of Educational Progress. What would you do in the US Senate to improve

reading and math achievement and expand educational opportunity for Michigan students?

>> You know, it's a shame. >> I walked into Spain Elementary in Midtown Detroit in 2016. It was the

middle of winter. Saw first graders bundled up in their coats trying to learn how to read with icicles coming

off the roof because the boiler in the building broke. Literally 2 weeks ago, but they had to call them back in cuz

they were out of days that they could keep them out. We built a program to provide every one of those kids a free

pair of glasses. We had that school inspected for any of the public health issues that we could have found.

When the Flint water crisis hit, I had every school, daycare, and Head Start tested for lead in the water. But, this

is a funding issue. It's a funding issue that's been created by the disastrous policies of folks like Mike for a very

long time. In 1999, he architected the legislation that ushered in what ultimately would become emergency

management, under which Detroit public schools were then operating. That's exactly the kind of failed leadership

that's led us to this crisis in the first place. We need to fund the Department of Education. In fact, I

think we need to tie bar the funding to Department of Defense. I think we need to be invested in schools rather than

defunding schools like we've seen here. >> Congressman Rogers, you now have 30 seconds for a rebuttal.

>> Yeah, in the whopping 18 months he spent in the city of Detroit, we couldn't find anybody that knew him or knew what he

did. 67% of Detroiters rejected him in his primary. 67%.

So, we've been down there talking to them about what happens in their schools, how we can get their kids

reading. He just comes up with this flowery language and he'll blame Trump here in a second for all of that, I'm

sure. Uh and what's happening is we've gained we've given uh about $3,000 more per pupil and our all of our education

standards went down. >> That is your time, Congressman. Thank you. You have 30 seconds for a rebuttal,

Dr. El Sayed. >> Yeah, look, at the end of the day, the question is ultimately who's got skin in

the game? Uh I think about the quality of schools every day. I think with Mike, you look

at where he sits. Dude's moving to Florida in November. He just took his house off the market. And

yes, I am going to blame Donald Trump because this is Donald Trump's economy. We are living in it. We're paying more

for gas, more for groceries, defunding the Department of Education. Can you look in that camera and say that Donald

Trump should fund the Department of Education? Can you maybe tell him not to come here if you would disagree with his

policies? You won't. >> I'm happy to answer all of those questions.

>> time. Thank you, Dr. El Sayed. Thank you, Congressman. Alicia, you have the next Chuck, you have the next question.

>> That's right. Thank you very much. Uh let's now turn our attention to something that we hope everyone does in

a few days and that's voting. Um and a key aspect of the SAVE Act. If elected, you may be asked to vote on legislation

requiring voter identification and other key changes to federal election laws. Would you support or oppose that

legislation and why? Dr. El Sayed, we begin with you. >> Let's be clear, this is about voter

suppression. You know, the SAVE Act would require women who change their names to go back and find their birth

certificates just to be able to vote in our election. I mean, I think that's pretty crazy and you pile that on to the

voter suppression tactics we've seen out of the Supreme Court backed by Donald Trump, backed by Mike Rogers. In fact,

Mike Rogers was just caught on a hot mic talking about how he wanted to make sure that there were retired cops who could

intimidate voters in the city Detroit. I couldn't believe it when I heard it because that sounds like something you'd

be hearing from someone in the south like 60 years ago, not a politician running here in Michigan who's claiming

that, you know, he's talking to folks in the city Detroit cuz I'll tell you, folks in the city Detroit are sick and

tired of watching politicians deny the outcomes of elections just like Mike has, just like Donald Trump has. We

deserve the right to vote. Nobody should take that away for you from you. People have fought and died for that right. I

for one believe in democracy and will abide by the outcomes of this election. He's questioned the outcomes of the last

election in the first place. >> All right, time. Uh Congressman, I'll repeat the question.

If elected, you may be asked to vote on legislation requiring voter identification and other key changes to

federal election laws. Would you support or oppose that legislation and why? >> Yeah, I think it's very reasonable and

rational to ask for a voter ID. So, my opponent, again, calls for open borders, wants to give illegals driver's license,

and then avail them to all of the services of the United States of America. And by the way, it's easy to

work your way into a system. Show an ID uh to to vote, I think is absolutely uh imperative. It won't do anything and it

builds confidence in our elections. This is what you want. And sec- secondly, think about this. There are so many

Democrats who are coming out today and saying they can't vote for Abdul El-Sayed because he's too extreme. The

former chairman of the Democrat Party has come out and said, "Can't vote for El-Sayed. He is too extreme." The

finance chairman of Elissa Slotkin, our current senator, came out and said, "I can't vote for El- El-Sayed." If you

start thinking about Democrats for Rogers and elected officials around the state saying, "Too extreme, can't do

it." This to me is exactly the kind of thing he does. He's a He's really good on his feet. He's not so good when it

comes to policy. >> Thank you very much. I know you're passionate, but this uh we have to

follow the rules here. Dr. El-Sayed, your 30 seconds, please. >> You know, it it saddens me. You know, I

told you at the outset he was going to make this about MAGA bingo, all of the different buzzwords. At this point, I

think everybody playing has already won. A prize for everybody. But, here's the thing. When you're winning MAGA bingo,

we're all losing cuz I told you every time that they're trying to distract you, they are picking your pocket. You

got a corporate politician who wants to turn around and do corporate things. I mean, we just got No, he was flying

around on private jets to get his BMW or somebody's BMW uh fixed. I

I've never been on a private jet. I don't know about you all. >> All right, that's your time.

Your rebuttal, Congressman Rogers. >> I mean, this guy is so ridiculous. This is exactly why the biggest coalition we

have is Democrats for Rogers. We're doing well with African-Americans in the city of Detroit, in Pontiac, and Flint.

We're doing exceptionally well with Jewish Democrats who are literally afraid I've talked to ones with tears in

their eyes about the future of their kids and grandkids because of the anger and division that he is laying out on

the street. This is really, really important that you listen to the people who are not

going to support our >> gentlemen, we're out

>> I'm not serious, man. >> [snorts] >> Alicia, your question next.

>> Our next question will be for Congressman Rogers. We'll start with you about political independence at a time

when the country is deeply divided politically. What is one policy proposed by your opponent's party that you could

see yourself supporting? >> Yeah, I've seen some housing bills and I'd like to be there

to work with them to try to get them in a little better shape, but for affordable housing. We have a huge need

in cities like Detroit and Pontiac and Flint and Benton Harbor and there's other places around the

state that it will be in need as well. I'd love to work with them on that. I have a housing plan to get younger

Michiganders into homes. Right now, the current first-time home buyer in Michigan is 40

years old. It's ridiculous. So, I have a plan to actually build in some lots in the

city of Detroit by encouraging investment by builders, bringing the community together, also working with

the city council. I've had great conversations with the Detroit City Council how we can work together on

getting those housing needs met and spurring development in housing bills in the city

of Detroit and other places as well. >> Congressman Rogers, thank you. I'll repeat the question for you, Dr.

Elsayed. At a time when the country is deeply divided politically, what's one policy proposed by your opponent's party

that you could see yourself supporting? 60 seconds. >> Look, I come out of municipal

government. That means you got to work with everybody to get something done. I was proud to get to work with all kinds

of folks both in Wayne County and in the city of Detroit to eliminate medical debt, put glasses on kids, take

on corporate polluters. I'll work with anyone and everyone when it comes to getting money out of politics, put money

in your pocket, and passing Medicare for all. I want to talk to two issues. Number one, I actually believe that

there are tariffs that make sense. Donald Trump's tariffs don't make any sense, but there's a version of tariffs

that really could be hooked to a industrial policy that makes sense. Where you're tariffing in a way that

actually could help us build the job creation opportunities of the future. The other one is on corporate

speculation. You know, Donald Trump, even though he's a broken broken clock, he's right twice a day. And when it

comes to corporate speculation on housing, I think that's wrong, and I actually agree that we got to do

something about it. So, there's two issues that I'm looking forward to finding Republicans who are willing to

work with me on so that we can get money out of politics, put money in your pocket, pass Medicare for all.

>> Dr. Elsayed, thank you. Congressman Rogers, 30 seconds for rebuttal. >> So, think of all of the three things he

just talked about. Put money in your pockets, it's a great slogan. There's nothing behind it. Matter of fact, when

his new Democrat socialist align policies are engaged, money in your pocket, you'll be lucky to have a damn

pair of pants when you're done. Medicare [clears throat] for all, he doesn't tell you how much taxes you have to get

charged and you lose your private health insurance. These aren't real solutions. These are solutions that are going to

make your life more miserable, and it's going to take away your choices in health care.

>> Congressman Rogers, thank you. Dr. Elsayed, 30 seconds for rebuttal. >> Let's talk about money in your pocket.

Right now, the folks pulling the money out of your pocket are the big corporations who are buying his

campaign. I out-raised him three times, but somehow there are more ads for him on TV. Who paid for those? Corporations

and super PACs that are flooding the airwaves. So, I want to stand for your union. I

want to make sure that you have one, so you have good wages and good benefits. I want to stand up to monopolies and

oligopolies that both suppress your wages and raise your prices. I would call that some substance, even if for

him, he can't talk about it because he's bought off by them. >> Thank you, Dr. Elsayed. Carolyn, okay,

we're almost out of time, gentlemen, so we do have a few rapid-fire questions for you. We just need a yes or no answer

on this. Congressman Rogers, are you in favor of expanding the US Supreme Court? Yes or no?

>> No. >> Dr. Elsayed, same question to you. Are you in favor of expanding the US Supreme

Court? Yes or no? >> Yes, but fairly. >> All right, very good. Uh

same rapid-fire question. Question number two. Do you support universal background checks for gun purchases?

Dr. Elsayed? >> Yes. >> Congressman?

>> It all depends. It all depends. >> Yes or no?

>> Yes or no is all we have time for. >> It's not hard. >> In the middle. In the middle.

>> There's there's different cases for that. >> So dependable.

>> Okay. >> Well, you want to ban the Second Amendment. You wanted to talk about

that. >> Okay, guy. >> There's a big difference between

>> Gentlemen, we've got to protect your closing statements. All right.

>> All right. >> It's now time for a closing statements and uh

as we decided before, Congressman Rogers, you go first. >> Well, first of all, thank you all very,

very much uh for having us. You know, we cannot afford Abdul El-Sayed's policies, and we cannot risk

his ideology. If you think about what's at stake in this election, it really isn't about

left versus right anymore. Uh it really is about the heart and soul of the country and who we are as Americans and

the future we want for our children. There is a reason that group after group is coming to our campaign. Democrats are

openly supporting Rogers for Senate. Jewish Democrats who are afraid for their children when their daughters

can't wear their star of David walking across Michigan's campus. These are real.

My opponent's rhetoric, his vitriol, is having consequences. We need to stand up now to make sure

we're going in that right direction for this country. Again, I if you are worried, you went

through you were a Haley Stevens voter and you came out of this and you said, "Man, I just can't do it. He's too

extreme." Like the chairman of the Democrat Party, like so many Democrats who are coming out for us.

Well, guess what? You have a home with us. If you care about education, getting housing back better and fixed, keeping

your taxes low, regulations for business so that we can make a boom and have a booming economy here in Michigan and get

Michigan up off of off her knees and the envy of the country, you have a home with us. I'd like to

earn your vote on November 3rd. >> Thank you, Congressman. Dr. El-Sayed, your 92nd closing statement.

>> Nobody appreciates the promise of America like somebody who understands exactly

what America gave me. I got to go to great public schools, amazing public university. I love this

country. I love the Constitution and what it protects for all of us. But right now, it has gotten way too

hard. Our politics have been bought off by big corporations, billionaires, special interests buying

and selling politicians in the same way that they bought and sold the person to my left his entire career.

And what's happened to all of us? Well, it costs too much to fill up your tank. It costs too much to buy your groceries.

It costs too much to see a doctor. It just costs too much. I had the privilege of traveling up

north. We had 500 people in Iron Mountain, 600 in Escanaba, 1,300 in Marquette, all

coming together around a vision for an America where it just shouldn't be this hard. You deserve to have a union. You

deserve to know that your politicians are not bought off by big corporations. You deserve better than a war that we're

fighting aimlessly, that raises your gas prices, that raises the price of your groceries.

You deserve to know that you can look your kids in the eye and know that their country's going to be better for them.

Cuz I want America, the America I got to experience, to be America for all of her kids. That's what this campaign is

about. We need to turn the page on Donald Trump, but that means we need to stand up to Donald Trump. We need to

take on the corruption of our politics. We need money out of politics, money in your pocket, and Medicare for all.

>> Well, we want to thank Congressman Rogers and Dr. El Sayed for being here and coming to Channel 7 and getting

through all of these issues that matter a lot to Michigan. As we certainly appreciate you, [music] and we want to

thank everyone at home for watching as well. >> And I agree. We thank you very much for

coming. You can find this debate in its entirety at wxyz.com, and it will also be on our live 24/7

stream. >> And of course, we want to hear from voters about what they thought about

this debate, the feedback they're going to give us, and we're going to have reaction from voters for you tonight on

7 News Detroit at 10:00 and 11:00. >> And everybody, do not forget election day is November 3rd. Both of these

gentlemen want you to come out and vote. Polls are open at 7:00 a.m. They will close at 8:00 p.m. Your voice will not

matter unless you vote. Again, thank [music] you all for watching tonight. Gentlemen, thank you for being here for

this wonderful debate. Have a good night, everybody. >> Good night.