Fact Check: Candace Owens and Baron Break Down Key Tyler Robinson Case Details

All right, you guys. Happy Thursday. Actually, Baron, do you want to try that? The intro? They're going to miss

me saying. All right, you guys. Happy. >> All right, you guys. Welcome in. Welcome in. Welcome in.

>> It's going to be a combo. Welcome in. Welcome in, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Boy, do we have a class for

you today. I've been wanting to do this for a very long time. Uh, going backwards. So much has happened in one

year since the beginning of this trial. Uh we've obviously dedicated me and Baron a it feels like a year of our life

to this and there's been so much information and it's hard to sort of go back and remember what happened and so

I'm hoping that we can put this all together for you uh so that you can reflect, remember, and refresh

yourselves on what you need to know going into the trial since there's going to be a trial date set. Uh we should

know more about that tomorrow. So let's jump right in and welcome back to Candace and Baron kind of. Yeah.

Okay. Where to begin? Like I said, there is a lot to unpack. A lot to unpack. There are some things I actually don't

even know and I'm I'm going to have to just completely toss to Baron because he went down some rabbit holes that I

didn't go under. Didn't uh didn't go uh follow him into and he knows a lot of stuff about the warrants that were filed

which is actually really important. Uh but I think the best place to start as I was thinking about how to pull this all

together is to just remind everybody of what the official narrative is regarding Tyler Robinson, and I'm putting that in

air quotations for a reason. what he did on September 10th. I think that's a good place to start, right? So, Baron, I'm

just gonna walk them through that so everybody remembers. Uh, we hear from Lance Twigs in his testimony that he

believes that Tyler Robinson woke up around 4:00 a.m. or 5:00 a.m. on the morning of September 10th and he left.

The assumption is that he then drove all the way up to UVU campus. We then know that he pulls in to uh UVU campus around

8:30 a.m. and he is going to be wearing the maroon shirt. He's going to be wearing the light colored shorts and

he's going to have on a black hat with a white logo and light colored shoes. We then know uh that which is a story that

we broke is that he drives at first to the top of the parking structure, right? >> And he just sort of lingers there for

about 7 to 8 minutes before and and in my again I don't want to read into it so I'm just going to deliver the facts. We

don't know what he's doing in the car before he then goes to a lower level and then he gets out of his vehicle. And at

this point the federal narrative is that he walks toward the amphitheater. He approaches a as of yet unnamed Turning

Point USA employee and he asks, "Is this where they are having the event?" I do want to interject right here and say

that I find this to be problematic because we now know that Turning Point USA's first employees did not arrive

until just about 9:00 a.m. >> That was in the parking lot away from the amphitheater. They didn't get to the

amphitheater until even later than that, >> right? So, this is going to be, I think, a tricky spot. And and again, they're

they may have evidence of this. And we're supposed to think that he walked up, he asked them this question. Again,

seems weird to me. Also, just because Tyler Robinson could have used his context clues on that. Uh, the flyer

says it's going to happen in this this event. You see them pulling in stuff, but whatever. We will leave it at the

federal narrative. Um, at that point we know that we're told that he then is going to after he goes up to

uh at 9:33 after he goes up to this person at Turning Point USA, we are then told at 9:33ish

a.m. he leaves the UVU parking structure. So that was it. He just came onto campus to ask a question to ask if

this event was here. didn't trust the flyer and he thought the best person to ask was somebody working at the actual

event and then he leaves and that we know that he gets caught on the uh campus footage going up and down the

staircases. Then despite leaving at 9:30 a.m. neighborhood cameras are going to catch

him just uh before 10:00 a.m. Now he's still walking in his room shirt. So we don't know what he did. I guess just

parked off campus, decided to park off campus, returns to campus and he walks through the tunnel and he decides he's

going to grab some Chick-fil-A and he's going to eat. And so he heads towards the Sorenson building. He purchases

food. He sits down, enjoys a meal, >> right? Uh and like I said, he's parked off campus now. And we do have a map of

what they say happens next. And I do want you to walk them through it because it's quite exceptional what they're

saying happens. Again, this is around 10:10 a.m. after he's enjoying some Chick-fil-A on campus.

>> Yeah, he could take a really easy path to scope out the Losi Center. >> Pick up the map

>> or he could do what we see here on the screen, which is walk down the road, enter the UVU campus through the tunnel,

walk over and get some Chick-fil-A, and then leave and head to the um the wooded area over there. drop off a backpack,

head over to the Gunther building, which is shockingly the home of the UVU police department, walk uh somehow from the

Gunther building to the computer science building, and then go from the computer science building on the walkway to the

low center railing. Um, if you look at that and you think, man, that looks pretty messy. Why did he walk all the

way to the woods to drop off a backpack only to circle around to the police department before going into two other

buildings and then to the Losi center railing? You're not alone. You're not alone. Cuz a lot of us have the same

question. Why didn't he just walk from the Chick-fil-A to the Losi building? It's about 10 ft, 20 ft.

And he would have saved himself a lot of steps. He wouldn't have had to worry about how to get the backpack uh away

from the wooded area. He wouldn't have had to walk by the police department. he wouldn't have had to walk through

multiple buildings presumably being seen on camera. How else would they have known he was there?

>> So, it's it's it's a map that's problematic. Yes, >> it's a map that raises serious questions

about the federal narrative just looking at that. >> And I do want to say this is where they

declined to show us footage. >> Yeah. >> This is where they say we have him on

camera. He's eating at Chick-fil-A. You're at a, you know, a preliminary hearing. You got one shot to pull

everything together. you've had a a full 10 months to pull all this together. Why are they not showing us any of this

footage in particular of him eating at the Chick-fil-A sitting down? And then also, if you want to bring that back up,

Chris, I actually want to keep talking about this map. This map is crazy to me. Okay, so like just so you guys are

following that again, 9:57 a.m. They're going to catch him walking through the neighborhood and he is then for I don't

even know why he's entering the tunnel. Like there's that's not the easiest way to get onto campus. Then he goes to

Chick-fil-A. I find that to be, you can stop there, to be problematic because of all the places, if you're going to

commit a crime and you are motivated by LGBTQ issues to commit your first crime ever and to murder someone, I probably

wouldn't pick the Chick-fil-A restaurant. >> Right.

>> Right. That that's already weird. >> And not not to mention all the cameras inside. Right. We have images from

inside the Sorenson Center looking at the Chick-fil-A counter. There's two cameras looking right at the counter.

And then like you said, now he's going to he's going to drop off his backpack, which he could have done much simpler,

>> a different route on the way, but also we don't know what happens to this backpack.

>> Okay, so Agent Hull testifies and he says he then goes back onto campus and he's not wearing the backpack, but

nowhere else in his testimony does he say, "And then we saw him head back toward the backpack." It's just there's

a missing backpack here that we have completely lost the thread on in the federal narrative. And again,

>> then going past the computer science building and going na na boo boo in front of the police in front of the UVU

police station which is in the Gunther building feels very odd to me to only then go to Losi and do the scope. So

he's on campus we're told um for that's an approximate hour. Um, we're told he leaves campus just before 11:00 a.m.

after having done all of that. And this is when we know that he's going to now change um into some different clothes.

Now, he leaves campus at 11, just before 11:00 a.m. At 11:28 a.m., he submits his Wordle score.

>> Yes. Yes. A long day of assassinating ahead of you. You need to submit your WLE score

to your friends. You don't know what's going to happen afterwards. >> You don't know what's going to happen

after. You don't want to miss a day of missak. >> Very strange thing to do right before

you're about to commit your first murder. But I do want to point that out that we know at 11:28 that's what

happened. Um and then we know that at around 11, this is TMZ footage, 11:49 now he's wearing a different outfit.

He's wearing the black long sleeve shirt with the American flag and he is going to walk with a limp. now. And we were

initially told that the reason he's walking with that limp was because we're we were meant to assume that he's got a

306 in there, >> disassembled perhaps. >> Yes, there had the the official

narrative is that the gun was disassembled >> um somehow down close and they never

explained whether they thought the the right the barrel was down the front of the back, the stock was down the front

of the back. There was never an explanation of how the gun was disassembled and how it was packed

inside of him. >> Um, but that's the official narrative that he's disassembled the gun and is

mosying around campus. Again, not just like we had on that previous map. It would have been very easy for him if he

wanted to scout out Losi to avoid every camera, not take nearly as many steps, not see nearly as many people, and just

walk around the back of the computer science building onto the Losi building. Same thing here. if he if he is having

trouble walking, there are shorter routes to get where he was going. >> My sources, the faculty sources that I

have at UVU said that he clearly wanted to be caught on camera to take those routes. And I do want to say we all made

the assumption that the uh the gun or the disassembled gun, whatever it is, had to have been at he's dragging his

leg. So, there were some people who said, "Well, maybe he had it up here." Well, then why is he dragging his leg?

Like, if it's in his belt, there's no reason for him to be dragging his leg. So, we have a problem there with that

narrative. If you're going to say it's at the bottom, the footage that we have does not show that it's in his ankle. If

you're going to say it's at the top, then you've got the problem with why is he dragging his leg? So, that is it

performative? Is he pretending? We don't know. Uh, we obviously all know what happens next. At 12:15, he is going to

reach the top of the stairs near the Lozy rooftop. He walks to a short concrete wall that separates the common

area from the rooftop. That's when he's just sort of looking over the wall. He stands there for about se 70 seconds and

then he hops over and he ducks down. And this is where again assumptions were made that he reassembled the rifle.

There's no evidence of that that has ever been presented. This is they're just going use your imagination. What do

you think he does when he gets down low? Now the hunters are going to tell you if How are we zeroing that scope?

>> Yeah. How are we res like you can't just put together a rifle and not fire a couple of rounds to zero the scope?

>> Not typically. And and the problem with it is this is a shot you have to make. >> You're going to take a life. You have to

make this shot. This isn't like you're going deer hunting and if you miss, well, the deer gets away.

>> Uh it's not like you're going target practice um shooting and and if you miss, you're like, "Oh, I need to move

it a little No, this is this is a once in a-lifetime shot and you're going to, you know, in fact, in the pleading from

the government, one of the points they made was that he was reckless and could have put other people in jeopardy

because he reassembled the rifle and he had jostled the scope in his in his pants the entire way there for a mile or

whatever, however far he walked. >> It it's it's a it's a gap in the narrative that they've they've really

not explained satisfactoryy. >> Yeah. And I would also say they have not explained that once we are supposed to

assume or as some people have explicitly said that like Blake Nef said that he, you know, got down under there and he

reassembled the rifle. He didn't zero the scope. Um I just when we presented the footage of the lateral crawl, I

don't see a gun. I don't see how you do a lateral crawl with that size gun. Um, and then we obviously

see him uh lurched forward into a position and we see him run off of the rooftop and and jump off. I mean, he's

quite he's quite athletic is what I would say. Whoever this individual is, he is quite athletic.

>> He was very healthy. Obviously had no injuries. Couldn't have had any kind of injury to his body because that's a heck

of a fall. Um, it has to be pretty athletic, you know. Is it an impossible jump? No. But if you're not very

athletic, it might become a substantially more difficult jump. So I would think whoever made that jump was

very athletic and very healthy. >> Okay. Charlie gets hit by what? We do not know. The federal narrative is that

it's a 30 out six. He got very lucky on not needing to zero the scope the scope. One shot. Didn't even think let me take

two just in case I don't get them. Uh and then what happens is, according to the feds, he jumps down. He runs away

and then I guess really Federal just kind of gets into him really wanting to express himself to his lover about

everything that he had just done. I mean, >> every single key detail.

>> Yes. >> Every detail needed to convict Tyler Robinson

>> was was mentioned in those text messages, >> right?

>> You would need nothing else except those text messages, >> right? like everything of what he was

thinking, the motive, the who, the what, the when, the where, the hide, the the why, the do you remember, didn't you see

me when I was carving the bullets, my dear, my love, you sort of um definitely written like a Jane Austin novel. It's

very expressive and oh, I thought I would get away with it and I don't want you to get in trouble. I mean, it's it's

a lot for a person who's supposed to be pretty smart to put all of this in writing while simultaneously saying that

you wanted to get away with it. So, >> there there were there was one key um discrepancy in there that I thought was

strange. He mentioned at first he didn't know if it had a serial number. He said, "I don't know if it has a serial number.

I don't know if it'll get traced back to me." Um if it does, it won't get traced back to me. And later he says, "The

serial number will trace back to someone else." At one point, he's saying, "I don't know if it has one." the other

time he's saying yes it does and it'll go to someone else. I I I I think that's been unexplained um that discrepancy.

But yeah, every single text message is so tied to a single element of the crime, even the enhancement factors.

>> Some hate can't be negotiated out. Like he he he's even premeditating the aggravated charge,

>> the aggravating factor that's going to be need to secure aggravated murder. It's incredible. Yes.

>> I mean, I I've never seen anything like it. I mean, even if if you're talking about a person that sells pot and it's a

grandma pot, they won't they'll be paranoid about texting about something that small, but he's like full full

confession. Everything went to Lance. And that is why Lance's testimony has proven

>> so controversial and crucial. Definitely crucial to the state. Controversial, I think, to the public. The Fed messages,

I think, were one of the first signs, uh, I think, and we can go over all of them, where the public sort of said

something's not right. Okay. What was the biggest thing for you? >> The wound.

>> The wound. >> The the I could not get past the wound. I still can't get past the wound. Uh

I've been hunting. I've shot lots of rifles. I've shot 300 sixes. I cannot get past that wound. Um it does not look

like an entry wound and there not being an exit wound in, you know, 3 4 in of of neck tissue. It's it's an unbelievable

narrative to me. It's an absolutely unbelievable narrative to include that wound in the neck and tell me it's a

306. And they can't present any other example in history. You see that they'll be like, well, if you shoot a deer in

the abdomen, we're not talking about a deer. We're not talking about an abdomin abdomen. We are talking about a human

neck >> being shot at close, relatively close distance from a 306. And we are told

that it did not go through. And not only did not go through, you're talking about 1,500 lb of force coming at you. Charlie

didn't even fly backward. >> No, he just kind of slumped slumped back a little bit. And and you hear these

stories of someone getting shot in the rib or someone getting shot in here. I mean your abdomen has a huge amount of

tissue to absorb that blow to absorb all that. Your neck does not >> I mean it that much pressure coming into

your neck your your neck is not going to expand to four times the size and come back down and and not be picked. It's

just the wound doesn't make sense. That was the very first indication that to me something went terribly wrong.

>> And do you know what? I would agree. I would answer the question the same way. And I would add to it obviously that I

was not at all suspicious of Turning Point USA. So when people were going, "Who's this guy taking down the

cameras?" Which I think was the public saw that and was going, "Whoa, this is very strange." And I recognized him and

I was like, "Well, that's Terrell. I know Ter. I worked with Terl for years." And I called him thinking I was going to

help him clear his name. And my immediate thing was, "Oh, I'm sure a police officer told him to do that

immediately." And he was all nervous. And when he said that, "No, he didn't do that because a police officer told him

to do that." And he couldn't tell me why he did it. And then when I when I finally got him to show me the footage

like from behind and excuse excuses weren't making sense and I realized there was no wound,

>> I thought, is this the reason why you took the footage down quickly? Like specifically that camera

>> of all of the cameras when he said, you know, I told he spoke to Erica and he wanted to make sure that she didn't see

what was done to Charlie. And then I look at the footage and I'm like, this is the cleanest angle you've got.

>> Couple blood splatters here and there. That's it. this. So, why was this footage so crucial? And then to hear

them try to explain away why didn't go through. Yeah. >> And the Superman neck narrative that he

was a man of steel and it was a modern-day mir Christian miracle. That's when things got I felt were very

weird. >> Andrew Kovette has never retracted that tweet. He's never retracted it. that

that Superman neck tweet is still on his timeline and I don't believe he's admitted that that that didn't happen.

>> That the miracle didn't happen. >> Well, no, that the the conversation with the doctor didn't happen. I don't think

he's admitted that yet, >> you know, because the conversation with the with the doctor did technically

happen. He's just quoting not the doctor. And I think they were very panicked. I know they were panicked. I

know I know for a fact that the feds were on the phone with them um and trying to discern whether or not I had

recorded the conversation with Terl on FaceTime, which I had gratefully. Yeah. >> Um and then I think one of the things

that's very strange is them sort of stepping on the day of Charlie's actual funeral being concerned about the fact

that I had told the public that the bullet didn't go through. And you know, that was the common sense factor. Like I

I did not believe Erica at all when she said to me that Andrew went rogue and spoke to the surgeon alone and the

surgeon also went rogue, violated HIPPA and spoke to a PR agent. It was a little too steep of a hill.

>> Well, and before Terrell Farnsworth grabs the camera footage, don't forget he runs at break neck speed. I mean,

Carl Lewis speed to jump up on a wall and film a selfie of himself declaring Charlie dead. The first person to

pronounce Charlie dead was Terrell Farnsworth. Yeah. >> And it was within a minute or so of

Charlie even going down. He declares him dead. He he has this very awkward selfie moment. He He keeps flipping the camera

around back and forth so you can see them dragging Charlie off. It was gruesome. Um and it was so awkward.

I have I still to this day do not understand why he showed that to you. >> I And what's funny is I didn't ask him.

I didn't know he had filmed himself. I didn't know any of that. I think he sort of sent that. He was nervous when he

spoke to me on the phone and I think he was nervous because I was just cutting through the BS. He like forgot that I

worked with him and what he was saying I don't know how to send a file. >> Mhm.

>> And I'm nervous that Google's going to hack me. I mean my team was all there. They were literally all witnesses and I

was the first time I looked up at them the team and I said something's not right. That was weird.

>> So that was the first moment that you thought something was weird. >> Look because it was I wasn't expecting

it right. So, I was very team Turning Point USA. And then Terl's phone call to me and the excuses he was making up

because I said, "You can just show it to me if your concern is I was thinking maybe it was really bloody in the

background." He didn't want to show Erica. I didn't want anybody to see it. I said, "I can fly to you. Uh, you can

come here. I I don't need people will trust me. People I've earned the trust, I think, enough of people that if I say,

look, I saw the footage and it's horrific and he did want to just get it down or the cops told him, but he just

was all over." I mean, saying you don't know how to send a file and you run an audiovisisual company is in it's just

it's insane. >> I I it's hard for me to go back and remember, but I think pretty much

everybody took it as an article of faith that the bullet went through. >> We just assumed

>> because it had to it's a 306. It hit him in the neck. It had to go through. In fact, it was such a common narrative

that most people believed it was an exit wound and that there was an entrance wound from behind. And people were

trying to figure out what angle, who could have been where. uh because it did look more like an exit wound. It was it

was I think substantially larger than a typical entrance wound which is usually no larger than the diameter of the

bullet uh usually. Um but it it looked more like an exit wound the way the blood came out and and so people just

assumed and because he didn't go backwards I think people assumed the bullet had come in from the from the

back and then you broke that news that no in fact it did not come in from the there was no entrance wound there was no

exit wound from the back. There was no other wound on the back. I think it did throw the investigation kind of into a

tail spin for the official. >> And I think this is probably why I became public enemy number one to them

because I did it so innocently like and that's what's so funny as I go back now and I reflect on how many times I had

sort of stumbled upon a really big story without realizing how big it was cuz I was just trying to like let me help you

clear your name and then I was going whoa whoa that was really weird what's going on and now suddenly people inside

of Turning Point are telling me the feds are involved and they're worried about this tape and I went something's not

right here. Do you remember the date of that or roughly? >> I do remember that. I had the phone call

with Terl. I think it's it was on the >> September 19th. >> I was I was going to say it was the

17th. Okay. >> I I could definitely look into that. >> But it was it was early.

>> Do you remember when you reported it? >> Oh, 19th was when I had the phone call with him.

>> 19th was the FaceTime. Ashley says, "Yeah." >> And do you remember when you reported

it? >> The very next day. >> Okay. So, Sep. No, I should have known

that, of course, cuz it was the day of Charlie's actual funeral, not not the um >> funeral event that was open to the

public, but the actual funeral >> and that's the day >> the bed slot narrative started

unwinding. >> Yeah. And that was the day that he tweeted he tweeted because they were

kind of panicking and Justin Strife was calling my husband. My husband has no idea what's going on. My husband doesn't

watch the show. He's like, "What?" He's like, "Did you record some video? I've got Justin Strife calling me." And I'm

like, "Why is he calling you asking this question? Why does he care? Why does he care?" And I didn't put two and two

together because I was still remember I was totally agrieved in the state and my brain wasn't processing information the

right way. And then I went, "Oh, this is a very big deal." >> It's a very big deal. I I think the the

knock against Candace Owens is, "Well, she's never brought anything. She just has dreams." No, we would all still

think that bullet went through. >> Yeah. And that was the point. I think >> we would all still think it went through

and and frankly even people like me as skeptical as I am would have would have accepted perhaps the gunshot narrative

at that point. >> Yeah, me certainly me. So, I want to kind of get into some of the holes that

have emerged because there the feds have changed the story so many times. It's kind of incredible to reflect on the

things that they just dropped or completely changed. And there's no excuse for these changes. Like initially

when they came out and they said, "Okay, we've got our guy." Then they did this big press conference. I think it was on

September 14th and then you had Cash Patel and you had Governor Cox. So, they've now reviewed the footage. Um,

and they're presenting to the public and Governor Cox tells us that he changed his clothes on the rooftop. So, that was

that was a narrative that they just dropped and let go of. That's a that's a very big thing for him to have made a

mistake about. And no one interjected and said, "No, that's not correct." We were also told that Tyler Robinson was

suicidal um and that his parents were concerned that he was going to commit suicide and they were effectively, you

know, talking him off of a ledge. We were, this was a major one, told that his father turned turned him in because

his father thought he was guilty and Bill Aman publicly offered $1 million to Matt Robinson. like be because you're

the person that saw this. What a brave um what a what a brave father you are. Here's a million dollars

that's just been dropped. And I want to add here I spoke to Bill Aman at this time and I asked him specifically I did

I was totally upfront trying to get and he was kind of lecturing me a little bit about being careful with my platform

because it's a very big platform and people can you know draw conclusions and making sure that I have the facts. He

was very nice on the phone. It was very >> Did you Did you view that as a threat at the time?

>> No. >> Do you look at that? >> He was very nice in the phone. He had

like his PR person or something. It was a social media type person on the phone with him. I was totally

um just wanting information. Like I I I really didn't have this. >> But looking back now, do you think it

was a threat? >> No. I think he genuinely was concerned that people were roping him into things

that were not true. I think he cares deeply about public perception of him. >> Right.

>> So I never felt the conversation was perfectly friendly. And I said to him like, "I'm not try I just want to know

what happened." And I wanted to ask him obviously about the Hampton Summit and he was honest about the fact that he had

funded the influencers to come out there and uh regarding the father turning him in. I said, "So who did you give the

money to Matt Robinson?" And he said that he was giving the money to the feds.

>> Okay. >> Is that public? >> That's not public. This is the first

time I'm telling people this. >> That's I don't remember hearing that. >> Yeah. No, I because you know I was not

trying to I don't I don't have any personal ills Aman. I have ill will towards people that are lying about what

Charlie was going through throughout those days and haven't been forthcoming. And so he was forthcoming about the

summit. Basically said how we got involved. And I then switched and I said, "Well, what if it's we don't

really know anything about the case." I said, "You're giving a million dollars to Matt Robinson's dad. I mean to Tyler

Robinson's dad. Like what if it turns out that like he's somehow involved?" Because I didn't know anything. These

are early days. >> And he's like, "Well, once I give the money to the feds, it's up to them." So

I would like an update. I'd like to know if Bill Aman >> When did he tell you that? I you know

what? I gotta go my phone. It was right in September. >> Oh, so it was over a year ago.

>> Yeah. >> So over a year ago. >> I was just talking to everybody. I was

just genuinely had did not have this like this person did it or this person did it or like I just was sort of like

now I see his motives like now he's like sharing like fed not even fed slop like targeting me and my family

>> DoD talking >> stuff that I would have never ever done to him. And now we understand that he's

like promoting these threads of Jennica Pounds, but I he was not on my bad list. He was not on my bad list when I spoke.

>> Did he call you out of the blue? >> No, I I reached out to him. Okay. And I because I was just investigating things

and we talked about the Hampton Summit. And like I said, he was forthcoming. He was nice. I did not in any way feel

threatened. Um I just wanted information. I I would I spoke to everybody. Like anybody who was willing

to talk, I was willing to talk to. I do think it's relevant that he did say um that the money was going to to the FBI

and the FBI could then give the money to whoever they wanted. And I and I immediately sensed a problem with that

because I said, "Okay, well, like if someone comes forward to catch because he offered a reward um more information

and then he said it was going to Matt Robinson and then I had a source who told me that Matt Robinson never even

had a conversation to that effect." So I was like, "What's going on with that Bill Aman story? Somebody should follow

up with that." That is that is so bizarre to hand over a million dollars to the feds over a

year ago. >> Can you try to find that tweet? I know that's a that's a long time ago. That'll

at least let us like date it and figure out when he made that because it was pretty fast. And then he said something

about how brave Matt Robinson was and like the money he put up basically a reward money and then said it was going

to Matt because Matt turned in Tyler. So it was instant before Tyler Robinson had been arrested. So, do you think it was

to try to set the narrative in the public consciousness that Matt Robinson turned in his son?

>> Yes, I I think that now. >> Yeah, >> I do. And I think that I underestimated

how invested Bill Aman was in this until time went on and I started seeing like his, you know, personal vindictiveness

toward me. And if you just hosted a a summit in the Hamptons, why are you angry about the fact that we exposed it?

I mean, Seth Dylan lied. You got it. You want to pull that up? We're going to pull up that uh tweet here.

Oh, that says Oh, okay. Here we go. He's replying to a tweet breaking Alex Bruce Witz and Robbie Starbucks. Add $25,000

each to the FBI's $100,000 award for information leading to the capture of Charlie Kirk's assassin. It's now at

$150,000. And then Bill Aman says, "I am in for a million dollar." So this was like, whoa, you know, that's a lot of

money. And he seemed sincere in that. Like if he had just seen Charlie at his house a couple of months, I'm like,

okay, he's got money. That's to him that's us giving 5K, right? like so he's like I got five yeah like 50 bucks or

whatever. >> So >> yeah the the look some of the comments

like million-dollar baby that that's would have been a great thumbnail title million dollar baby I'd like to chase

that down that that to me is a loose end. Um but yeah they dropped that entirely. The Bill Aman money story got

completely completely dropped as did the father turning him in. It never happened as I have said from the very beginning.

the father does not believe that his son is guilty and um that they're just they just kept lying about that. It seems

like now they're not really lying about that, but more will come out if they are. Um they first reported that the

screwdriver was found near the gun. Then they radically changed that and said actually it was found on the rooftop. Uh

CNN was the first to report it and then they came out and said, "Oh, there was all this confusion in the early days."

And so that changed and then the Discord narrative changed. Do you remember what happened with Discord?

>> No. Can we go back to the screwdriver for just a second? Because there was a key fact that that came in between the

screwdriver >> being dropped originally. The screwdriver was said to be in the woods.

>> That was Fox News citing inside or CNN maybe citing legal inside legal sources. >> And then five or six days later, Cash

Patel comes out and says, "No, no, no. The screwdriver was on the roof." In between those two dates, in between the

date CNN reported it and Cash Patel relocated it to the roof. Um, the results came back from the DNA and the

fingerprint and nothing put Tyler Robinson on the roof. The DNA didn't put him on the roof because it was

indeterminate. The fingerprint, they couldn't determine whose that was. And then all of a sudden, the screwdriver

telelet transansports to the top of the roof. >> And I always found that a little magical

because right now that's the only thing putting Tyler Robinson on the roof, >> right?

>> That's the only thing. And and you can say, "Well, anybody could put a screwdriver on the roof." Yeah. I mean,

maybe a Slenderman jumps and throws it off, but something had to have his DNA on the

roof. You had to put something up there. There's no photographs of him. There's no, you know, they say it's a footprint.

You can't tell a Converse footprint in a bunch of gravel. I mean, there's just nothing up there putting him on a roof,

>> right? >> Except that screwdriver. >> Yeah. And I And I do want to go over the

evidence. I want people to understand what actually happened during the preliminary hearing and how how to weigh

that evidence, how relevant that evidence is. That was actually something I desperately wanted to do when I was

debating Andrew Wilson, but obviously he had no idea what was going on. So, I'm I'm glad we had the opportunity to do

that today. I I want to we can do that right after this, too. The Discord message narrative that was dropped. I do

want to point to uh the fact that a lot of these narratives were set by the probable cause um uh what is this like

the write up that they gave the affidavit, right? And in this affidav I'm going to read to you what it says

happened. So, they then gased us and were like, "No, there was never any messages on Discord." because Discord

themselves came out and said these conversations did not take place on Discord. And what people don't realize

about this like probable cause affidavit, this is a cop typing up a bunch of things or whatever. It's just

like the hearing where there nothing needs to be super concrete. Like it's just he's putting together things.

Hearsay is allowed in into this. So you have no idea who it's coming from. If it says his mom recognized him, it doesn't

mean that the mother they have a statement from the mother that says that I recognize my son. It means they spoke

to someone who said the mom recognized him >> and and she's allowed to infer it. This

is the thing a lot of people >> to infer. >> Nothing in the statement of facts or the

probable cause affidavit will ever see the light of day in front of a jury. They'll put the charges up in front of

the jury. The jury's going to look at that, but they will never see this set of facts. All this is is going to the

judge and saying, "We have a basis to hold this guy." >> Right?

>> This is a basis to hold this guy, you know, and we think it's right. we think it's right

>> and we're going to now investigate and we're going to figure out how right we are but we have a basis to hold him and

the discord messages this is coming directly from that affidavit he said uh whoever wrote it wrote investigators

asked if he and we're referring to Lance Twigs would actually let me go up here investigators identified an individual

as the roommate of Tyler Robinson investigators interviewed the roommate who stated that his roommate we're

referring to Robinson had made a joke on Discord investigators asked if he would show them the messages on Discord. He

opened it and showed several messages to investigators and allowed the investigators to take photos of the

screen as each message was shown by Robinson's roommate. So, the Discord narrative came from this. Okay, there

the context is very clear. This does not sound like a mistake. We then were like, okay, so he's communicating on Discord.

And then when Discord very quickly came out and said there was no conversations, no plotting, nothing on Discord, then

they sort of said, no, no, no, no, no, okay. know that we meant actually that it was all via text message and so this

could be some sloppy police writing. Maybe his English grammar is not correct, but that was the basis of that

and then that narrative also got dropped. We absolutely should talk about the evidence at the trial. I want to get

there because it's so important for you guys to understand. They have literally nothing at the moment. In my view, there

is nothing if you watch the preliminary hearing that you walked away and said is a concrete piece of evidence. And I'm

talking about DNA, physical connecting the dots here. This gun fired this bullet. None of that exists.

>> They don't even have text messages. I'm sorry. People fight on that all the time. They don't have text messages.

They don't have Discord messages. Not based on what they introduced at the preliminary hearing. And and that I

could explain that further, but >> you know, none nothing they showed at the preliminary hearing is going to be

put in front of a jury. >> Correct. >> Nothing. Yeah.

>> Because you're not going to be able to just just drop these text messages in front of somebody. Lance Twigs is gonna

have to come in and authenticate him. That's right. >> And and and then the defense is going to

have an opportunity to look at the cell phone extraction. I mean, there's there's so many steps between what we

saw on the preliminary hearing and what's going to be introduced at trial. Um that

there's no guarantee we'll see any of it. Here's my here's my thing about looking at the what actually happened at

the trial, which I'm so happy that it was all aired and everybody could watch it because if we had to rely on

influencers in court being overwhelmed like the performance was unbelievable and it was because if people were

actually listening and following to what was happening every day you were going, "This is I'm I'm I'm struggling to

believe this." Day trial day one was officer Christopher Baggley. Who could forget officer Christopher Bagley? your

opinion on officer Bagley? >> I call him Officer Bag Boy. I I don't I don't find him a credible individual. Um

I it's he kind of reminds me of a guy who sort of fails upward in life. I'm not I'm not, you know, knocking the guy.

Maybe he's doing the best he can, but he he got so many things wrong. He just got so many things wrong over and over and

over that, you know, if someone gets something wrong multiple times and sometimes it benefits them and sometimes

it benefits the other side, you think, okay, well, they're just, you know, maybe not real sharp. But when they

always get it wrong to benefit the other side, it it looks like a motive. It looks like it looks like a reason

they're doing it. And that's kind of how I look at Bagley. >> And just so you guys, if if you've never

followed this case, Officer Christopher Baggley is the Utah Valley Police Department uh police officer who had

init he was the first person who said to the police maybe the shot came from Loi Rooftop. And then he is the one that

then runs to Loy Rooftop with another officer in hand from Utah State University named Alan Robertson. And

they get up there and the first thing that happens is Bagley says, "Oh, look, a screwdriver." And what was problematic

about his testimony, the biggest things that are problematic is he said that conveniently his body cam footage died

in that moment where he discovered the screwdriver. Um, okay, let's just take that as it is. Uh the second thing that

I found to be exceedingly problematic is that when you are getting ready to testify, especially for a case this big,

but for every case, your lawyer preps you. Your lawyer preps you extensively on the information you need to remember,

the information that you need to reflect on. So when someone says, "I don't know." And they've had a year to get the

answer to something, almost a year, it it strikes me as odd. And he says that he did did not know and did not remember

who was the plain clothes officer that accompanied him onto the rooftop at Lozi. That to me registered as not the

whole truth. >> Yeah. Hugely problematic. And and the idea that you would just take a random

guy in plain clothes with a gun at a shooting event that you don't know and say, "Here, come with me to this

isolated remote location." and we'll go up there together. >> How do I know you're not the killer?

>> Yeah. And the whole idea that he just was meandering around. I was like, "Wait a minute. We should go to the Losi

Center." I I I find that problematic as well. Um, you know, I'm not I'm not suggesting I don't think overtly that I

believe Bagley was was in on it or whatever, but I I think he his testimony was just a disaster for

>> I would say it was unconvincing. >> It was very unconvincing. And the Axon body camera dying. I mean, every police

officer across the United States messaged me and were like, Candace, this the Axon body, it gives you a warning

before it dies. It beeps loudly. It turns red. So, did he not know? Did he not hear that? That also seems

extraordinary. >> And he's on photo and video shortly before going up to the Losi Center. And

there's no red ring around his Axon body camera. >> Yeah. So I am keen to hear more about

that and hopefully we will but I would say definitely unconvincing trial day one. Then uh they bring in the second

witness which is agent David Hull. Agent David Hall has been with the SBI so uh the state bureau of investigations for

12 years and he is the co-lead investigator on this case. He was initially put on the case with Brian

Davis. We'll get to him in a bit. Um and he is uh he's sizzle real guy. That's the best way to remember him is he is

sizzle real guy. He is the person that is going to present the video, the now notorious video 12.1 of who they are

just calling Tyler Robinson in the video that is here. He is coming onto campus and here's what he's doing and here's

what the event and then he went here. He's speaking very quickly through the video and basically trying to just get

you to think that this individual that we're seeing is Tyler Robinson. How did you find agent David Hull and his sizzle

reel? I found him uh entirely unconvincing for a couple reasons and not just his haircut. Uh for a couple

reasons. One is the the photos I mean the videos he was showing were out of order. They skipped around. Some of them

were mirrored. Some of them jumped ahead a minute and a half and he didn't he didn't explain why. Sometimes there's a

video up and he's talking about a different time period. You know, there's a guy standing in black at the at the

top of a stairwell. He's talking about a guy in maroon walking around campus. Uh there it was it was so out of order, so

out of sorts that you look at it thought, what is he doing? What why is he testifying? Why can't they slow down?

We've got five days. This is a very important part of the testimony. We're trying to put Tyler Robinson on campus.

>> This is a key. You have to be on campus to take the shot. We're trying to put him on campus.

Okay. A guy leaves and another guy comes back dressed completely differently head to toe with a different backpack. Why do

you think it's Tyler Robinson? I don't know. Kind of looks like him. Okay. Guilty start. Guilty. part was he did

know they were wearing the same similar sneakers, Converse sneakers. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. We should actually roll that clip. I still think it's the one of the most amazing things I've ever This toughest

police work I've ever seen. Take a listen. >> Do you recognize the person in these

images? >> I wouldn't say with 100% certainty just because of camera quality, but that

looks like him. The shoes he's wearing, the sunglasses. Yeah, sorry. I think that was the wrong

clip. That was Lance, but similarly, Lance did also say like, "Yeah, he's wearing jeans." It's I mean, this was

how they figured out that person one was person two is that nobody's ever worn jeans on a college campus in a t-shirt

and Converse, but Agent Ho specifically says, "This is how we cuz I was that's a big thing. How did you even know the

maroon guy was the guy that comes back in the black shirt?" And that was their police agent FBI co-lead investig

investigator saying because they were both wearing Converse sneakers. had a different he had a different hat, a

different shirt, different pants. >> Everything on him was different. And he looks different in the face. His hair

looks different. >> Right. Right. We have the clip, the correct clip. Now, let's play that.

>> You believe this is Mr. Robinson returning to campus? >> I do. Yes.

>> Okay. And And why do you believe this Mr. Robinson? >> Uh, the shoes are the same. And um the

images that we have are from from my viewing and and seeing Mr.

Robinson on the video. It's the same person. >> Yeah. Shoes shoes are the same. He

walked through the same tunnel. I mean, >> they don't look like they're the same height to me. They're not walking the

same. One's limping. Like, that is the craziest. You can't just say that. You can't just say stuff. And that's what he

does. So, I'm going, they have not even connected these two people yet. In a way, that is sufficient that people

should publicly accept as concrete evidence. Maybe they will, but for me, this is a major hole in the story. How

do we know Maroon Boy is not a completely different person than the person who reappears onto campus around

11:00 a.m.? >> Well, and it's not lost on me that this is a criminal trial for the life of

Tyler Robinson. >> You have to get it right. You have to get it right. If you believe it's him

because there's a cell phone signal in his pocket and it comes in the same and it's the same cell phone signal and we

believe that's the same cell phone Tyler Robinson was carrying, then testify that way. Tell us that. Don't tell us he wore

Converse. And I'm going to also say he suffers from a level of amnesia. Again, you are in a lead position at the FBI.

You can get concrete answers before you hit the stand. He says uh when he's asked about an offduty trooper named

Noah Gonzalez who was interviewed and recovered a holster on the scene, he says he doesn't remember that. Um then

he's asked about what time he went on to the Loi Center in the evening. He says he doesn't remember what time he went up

to center in the evening. These are literally the things that you know the lawyers sit down with you and they go

over every single detail before you testify. It's been a year. Why don't you know what time you went on to the lawyer

center in the evening? He also admits that he is not aware. He's the co-lead on the case. He is not aware of who

ordered the dirt to be paved the uh the crime of the scene to be paid over the dirt.

>> Didn't he say that he learned it the same way everyone else >> by the news or social media or

something? >> He may have. He's but I know he officially for and these are just my

notes. He says that he doesn't know who ordered. So he he's the lead investigator and it's not something in

10 months that he thought, "Hey, that is kind of weird." Yeah, >> that's my crime scene. Who's doing that?

He's just like, "No, >> no. Tore up 10 inches of my crime scene and I'm okay with it.

>> I'm okay with it." Never wanted to know anything. And by the way, that suggests that it's someone higher than him,

right? Because if you're the FBI and somebody did this and you don't know, you're the the lead on this case, then

the person who ordered it, and again, this is me using common sense, has to sit above you, right? We got we got

someone who sits above the lead on the case in the FBI because you can't go messing around with somebody's crime

scene a couple of days later. >> I wouldn't think you could dig 10 inches of it up and then pave it over.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, and and that's reality. But there's more than that to David Hull.

There are tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people following this very, very closely, investigating, looking

things up. I challenge anyone. I mean, no one knows who he is, >> right?

>> He's a ghost. He's an absolute ghost. And so, this ghost gets brought in to lead the investigation. He says some

pretty absurd things in the testimony and everybody's supposed to go, "Yeah, yeah, guy with a snazzy haircut. I mean,

what can we do?" >> Right? And we had we yeah, a lot of trouble learning anything about him. He

has a trace accent that sounds almost like Australian, South African. seems to change.

>> It does seem to change and so I can't place him either. Maybe you know him personally. Please feel free to email us

more tips canowens.com. Maybe he did maybe he was overseas. Maybe he's military. A lot of these

people who I can't seem to find tend to be military. Um but we would definitely like some more information about Hull.

Maybe you've worked with him and can tell us more. More tips at candacewowens.com.

Again, we are looking about we're talking about David Hall who is the co-lead.

>> And if you know him, you know him. Look at that haircut. There's no way you don't remember that. Mm-m. Mm- That's a

porcupine haircut. It's He's got a very uh definitive look there going on. Now, I want to now get to a very important

person who was a witness. I actually very much liked her. Her name was Amanda Baker. She was the forensic examiner

from the FBI, Quanico, Virginia. Uh she's been there for 10 years. She was requested by the state of Utah to do the

testing on the towel and the screwdriver. Okay. So, that's the background of who she is. She testifies

that normally to turn around the DNA it takes between 90 and 200 days, but this case she was asked to speed up due to

the high-profile nature of it. And she said that means that they were instructed to basically work around the

clock. There's a very important part of her testimony where she talks about September 13th. She takes meticulous

notes and she talks about this date, September 13th. And I'm going to tell you guys, this is the date where Cash

Patel, I think it was Fox News, Ashley, if you can find the clip, let me know. He comes out and he says, "We were able

to connect Tyler Robinson's DNA." Okay. She testifies that that not only is that not true, she spoke to the FBI special

agent Fulier and the Utah FBI, David Hull, on the phone. They called her. They're like, "Hey, you know, we want to

rush this thing." And she and they just asked her whether or not they could uh if it's plausible that Tyler Robinson's

DNA, like basically his DNA could not be excluded from the sample. And they then tell her, "There's no need for you to do

any additional comparisons at this time. Stop." Essentially, stop testing. This is the answer that we're looking for.

And then they went out and said something that she never ever said. She specifically says in her testimony that

she could have never told them that Tyler Robinson's DNA was on on the towel um or the screwdriver. And yet, Cash

Patel lied publicly, misrepresenting these facts. Ashley, again, tell me if you can find that. I I didn't ask you to

pull that before. Um, but there are a couple more things that she went through. She said that just because DNA

is on an item, it does not mean that an individual touched or used that item. So, that's something that you should

just know. Even if they found DNA on a towel, it does not mean that the individual touched that item or used

that item because that's how easy it is to transfer DNA. Uh, she said also that DNA can persist on any item

indefinitely. Um, and also that it can degrade over time. They have worked on items in in her experience that were 40

or 50 years old and they were still able to recover DNA from that item. Like that is like degraded. She said you'll see

that there's some degrading signs, but like this could have been touched 50 years ago and we could still pull your

DNA. That's incredible. >> Tyler could have used that gun when he was 12 years old.

>> And he could have never touched it, >> right? >> He could have touched his father's hand.

Well, and the thing I mean, Lance Twigs could have grabbed a toothbrush and rubbed it on everything. He could have

rubbed his bath towel on everything. >> And that's really important. She really gets into telling you what DNA

degradation is. And then he he has her walk through how degradation can happen, how long it can stay on, and then he

kind of walks her into this broader point about the the the screwdriver. And she says the samples on the screwdriver

were tremendously degraded. So that signified to me immediately that she's saying a I don't know how the DNA got on

there. There's no, you cannot make the statement that Tyler Robinson touched the screwdriver. B, she testifies that

Lance's DNA is also found on the screwdriver, but you also can't make the statement that Lance Twigs touched the

screwdriver. This could have just rolled in their house. I don't know. And and that's it. That's how it got on there.

And um she she impressed upon in her testimony the fact that the screwdriver the DNA full stop was degraded. So

that's why I am of the opinion uh which I've expressed on the show this week that the screwdriver was just dropped

there. It was never there to put the that would be fresh DNA that's not going to be degraded. If you put together and

you crouch down like Blake Nep was trying to say and you put together this thing and didn't need to zero it. You're

going to have fresh DNA, not degraded DNA on that screwdriver. Um and then regarding the towel, I I actually can't

even follow what they're trying to say happened with the towel. Like >> where was the towel? Where was the

towel? I think a lot of people assumed it was on the roof. >> Yeah, but they actually never said that.

>> They never said that. And and and and you pointed that out to me. They never said it was on the roof. Everybody

assumed it was cuz when they showed the video of him jumping down or whoever jumping down, you see this object swing.

>> Now they're telling us that's a gun. I don't know how a gun bends like that. But um so I always assumed, oh, that

must have been the towel. You say they've never said that. >> Yeah. And because I just thought to

myself, if you're planning out this assassination, why would you bring a towel to cover a gun? A towel is going

to look objectively weird in a college campus. Like that's gonna stand out. If I'm walking down a college campus and

I've just got a towel, you're gonna be like, "Did you just shower here?" You have all of the ability to get a bag.

You can get a you could throw that gun into a large, I don't know, tennis bag, a sports bag. You could get a an actual

shooting bag. You know, the nice shooting bags that you have. And none of that's going to stand out. If I see you

on a college campus, you just have a bag of some description. But holding a towel is not the best way to cover a 30 on

six. It looks weird. >> Yeah. You'd have to, I guess, roll it up in there and and now you're walking down

with a rolled up towel down the road. >> Is there a beach around here? What are we doing with the rolled up towel? Did

you just come from the showers? So, that didn't seem right to me. And then I realized they never said they never said

that. We just all in our head assumed that the towel must have been on the roof. There's actually no evidence of

that. >> We We all put it in the roof in our mind.

>> I think it came from the the swinging object in his hand when he jumped down. >> Yeah.

>> But that could have been a backpack, could have been a jacket, could have been anything. All we know is that when

we do get the towel, he has it sitting on the gun. And I think that's why they they constantly want us to start putting

together a story that they're not actually saying. Maybe it's that backpack that was left behind. Maybe he

then took it out cuz he was going to cover the gun and come back and try to retrieve it and he was just going to

cover it with a towel. I don't know what the purpose of the towel is yet. It has not been made clear to me. I also

thought maybe they were going to suggest that he tried to wipe away his DNA. Well, you don't wipe away your DNA with

your DNA. So, that would be stupid. >> Yeah. If his DNA is all over the towel cuz he took a shower, you're not going

to then take it to to wipe it down. >> Yes. Exactly. So, um that was really interesting about just her testimony in

general. And again, regarding the towel, we again have a situation where Lance, both Lance Twigs and Tyler Robinson have

some DNA on those items. So, if you're going to make a statement that you think the evidence is overwhelming on the

basis of DNA that we don't know how it got on there or if they ever touched it, you you're now saying evenly you believe

that it was Tyler Robinson and you believe that it could be Lance Twigs on the basis of those two items.

>> Yeah. >> You have the cash clip. Yeah. So, knowing that Amanda Baker testifies and

says that she never made this statement and she was asked to basically stop uh looking into and doing comparisons and

she was under duress and it was rushed. Listen to how Cash Patel presents this information.

And I can report today that the DNA hits from the towel that was wrapped around the firearm and the DNA on the

screwdriver are positively processed for the suspect in custody. >> Amanda Baker disputes that. And she

works for him. She works at Quanico. >> I was listening to him, but I was watching that guy jump off the roof

again. There's no gun. I'm sorry. There's just no gun. I You can't find it. Guns don't move that way.

>> Yep. So, um I just want to make sure that you guys just know that Cash Patel lied. He literally lied.

>> Yeah. >> Um and told her to stop testing or someone from his office told her to

essentially stop testing and that was enough to at least for him to go to the press and say something that was not

true. Um >> what's that? Oh yeah, we'll pause here and do an ad

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Remember, privacy is not paranoia, it's just protection. Okay. So, we then hear from the other

half, the co-agent that was assigned to lead the case, Sergeant Brian Davis, and he kind of gets he he's kind of the guy

that gets everything together for the probative cause hearing. He talks about this character, Mike Mitchell. I don't

know how I feel about Mike Mitchell. I feel like Mike Mitchell is kind of a shady character um who gave the police

what they needed for the probable, you know, like the probable cause affidavit. And I I don't know how I feel about him.

this shady character in the background that is a family friend of the Robinsons. I think most of the

information that they used was probably given to them by Mike Mitchell. We'll find out obviously. We don't need to

read into that. Uh but he does also talk about why they decided to give Lance uh use immunity. And I I do not understand

if Lance is telling the truth. You have a pre-recorded interview. You can't go wrong here. It's pre-recorded. You have

almost a year, what 9 10 months here to go check his messages, see what's right, see what's accurate. Maybe I'm ignorant.

You have a legal background. I don't. Why are they giving Lance use immunity for this pre-recorded testimony?

>> I honestly don't know except if I have a client and he's going to testify and he lived with a guy and he touched a piece

of evidence, I would probably say he's going to take the fifth unless you give him some immunity. That's the only thing

I can say. So from the lawyer side, >> from the lawyer side, the lawyer's going to say, "No, he touched the note.

>> He's going to testify. lived with him. A lot of the evidence was found in their shared room. You're giving him use

immunity for anything he says. >> Okay. >> I I I could see a lawyer doing that. I

don't I don't I don't read a lot into the use immunity. I know a lot of people do, but I I as a lawyer don't.

>> Okay. So, you think it's just like Yeah, the lawyer argued for it and that's what he did. Okay. They admit he admits

during his testimony that the text messages were not published in their entirety, just relevant portions for the

state's probable cause. And I do want to talk about the text messages because this became this is the whole point of

people who believe they're like the but the text messages but the text messages and as you had pointed out this is going

to be a major thing that they have to verify because their whole it's all riding on these text messages and

>> if if the text messages get bounced the case is over. Tyler Robinson goes home. He doesn't get indicted. I mean he

doesn't get uh convicted of anything. I I don't think I don't think there's any way to convict him without the text

messages. I don't think Lance's testimony the next morning is even enough.

>> And people were acting like it's extraordinary for us to consider. And by the way, this is just our common sense

that there was way too much information. But this is a person that he's dating. This is his boyfriend. This is his

roommate. Lance says he's home the whole day. He's home. We're don't even prod that narrative. He was sleeping until 12

or 1:00 p.m. And then even when he found out that Charlie Kirk uh had been assassinated, he wasn't that interested

in it. the biggest assassination since JFK. Is it possible that he logged in to his

boyfriend's Discord account? Is it possible since they play video games and they're on

this whole, you know, threads together that he logged in to his boyfriend's text messages on iMessage? Is it weird

to anybody that when we see Lance's phone and he's giving his testimony that the phone is cracked at the part where

we can see the time? Ashley, do we have a photo of that? Wow. That's How do you break your phone

like that? >> There's a couple of things about this. One is that that dead cell that goes

from the top to the bottom then green. It It crosses over and sometimes it doesn't cross over the text messages.

And I I find that weird. I've had one of those on my phone. When I had it, it crossed over everything. I'm not a phone

expert. I don't know what to make of that. Uh maybe there are phone experts out there who can send you a tip and

say, "Hey, yeah, no, that's not right." But I look at that green dead dead uh cell that goes from the top to the

bottom and that doesn't look right to me. >> Yeah. I I don't even know what that's

supposed to be. What is it supposed to be? >> So when your phone dies, you know where

the whatever it was hit the clock area up there, the top, sometimes it will do enough damage that it'll kill that whole

cell from top to bottom. >> So it can't produce any imagery. Well, if it can't produce any any imagery, it

should be a I think a solid green line from the top all the way to the bottom. But there are some of the parts of the

text message are actually over the top of that. And that looks wrong to me, but I'm not an expert and don't know. It's

just something I noticed. >> And it's really interesting that like in the in in the probable cause affidavit,

like they mentioned the fact that they took photos of his phone. And this is this is obviously the photos of his

phone. The fact that right where we could see the time of that, which is where we could place Lance at the police

station. He that's where he's supposed to be. Not able to be done. And that looks to me like he just stabbed

>> somebody just stabbed the corner. And when you go and watch his body language, he looks very uncomfortable when he's

talking about these messages. Even at one point, I think he says like the phone as opposed to my phone. Um I I I

think I'm recalling that correctly. And then he totally loosens up when he is telling the truth when they're like,

"Well, how do you know Tyler?" And then suddenly you suddenly know he's telling the truth and he's like, "Oh, we play

video games. We met because of this." yada yada yada. All of this stuff. And I'm going, "Okay, there's a totally

different demeanor here than when he starts speaking about these tech messages." And he's like, "I don't

know." and getting into Lance Twig's pre-recorded interview, he also tells us rather explosively their entire

narrative is that this is like an LGBTQ crime. The text messages also portray that that's the narrative. So, he's

telling, "Why did you do this?" You know, some hate can't be negotiated. But then Lance gets up there and he says,

"Never really thought about it. Never talked about it. It's never came up." A couple of things on the text messages.

One is there are a lot of people who suggest maybe the text messages arrived on Lance's and Tyler's phone uh from

some source originating outside of Tyler's phone. And a lot of people go, "Oh, well, maybe the government planted

them." I I don't think the government could have planted them. I think it's pretty complex, but I don't think it

would have been hard. If you read the search warrants, they pulled out all kinds of iOS devices, all kinds of

operating Mac operating system devices, iPads, um other uh uh iPhones, uh a computer tower that could have been

logged in, a Raspberry Pi device that could have potentially generated these types of text messages. It's not it's

not out of the realm of possibility for me to believe that someone might have logged into his account or just accessed

an account that was already logged in and generated these text messages. They're they're so detailed. they're so

out of the ordinary that it it doesn't strike me as weird. If you accept that they're real, that's fine. But I think

you should want to know more. Like, let me look at the extraction. Let me look at the actual technical uh information

and then I'll make a determination whether I think these text messages rise to the level of convicting Tyler

Robinson because a lot of people are convicting Tyler Robinson in their minds based on these text messages again that

have not been properly authenticated. >> That's right. >> That have not been properly

technologically undergurtded. Mhm. >> We're just looking at pictures from a broken cell phone, right?

>> And people are like, "Yep, fry them." >> Yeah. And like I said, the text messages are just they're unbelievable. They're

It's way too detailed. They said way too much. It's like you said, every single piece that they would need to convict

him is in these messages. And that's just it's too stupid for me to believe that any person would not just

Especially if you're going to see him later that night. >> Just just drive home.

>> Yeah. >> Have a conversation face to face. You would expect him to say, "Can you meet?

Can we do this?" Whatever. Whatever. I'll be home in 4 hours. >> I'm waiting. I'm waiting to retrieve my

rifle. I'm doing this. It it it just is completely crazy to me. I do not accept the messages are are are legitimate just

on the basis of common sense. I am happy to be proven wrong. We have not yet been presented with anything. Obviously, it's

a preliminary hearing, but I I find it they're they're just a little bit too precise. Um he does open up about their

relationship, how they got to know each other. Um, they met in 2023. They became roommates. They began dating three

months later in St. George. Um, they have an apartment complex together. Uh, and like I said, you really see him

start to like loosen up when he starts talking about things that I believe he's being honest about. Uh, I find it very

strange that he says that he saw Tyler on the 11th on the morning when he woke up. And again, he tells us that Tyler

gave him this confession. So, he's got the confession letter, which we're never going to be able to test for DNA. Forget

it. He finds a letter under his keyboard. It's from Tyler. He authored this letter and said, you know, text

messages, look under your keyboard. And then, of course, there's this letter where he once again admits to everything

that he did. But then the letter gets burned and tossed into the trash. So, we're never going to be able to test

that. >> But not before someone takes a a shot of it. Not I mean, it takes a picture of

it. Lance, >> it is the strangest part of the Lance story is that you find this letter,

you're horrified by this letter and you text them and be like, "All right, so when are you coming home?"

>> Mhm. >> You know, what's next? When when do I get your stuff out of here?

>> Which I think a normal person if someone confessed to killing someone, they would stop all community. Like, why are you

going to sleep in the same house as him? >> Yeah. >> I would be at my mom's house. It's like

your family lives around the corner. I would be totally somewhere else and being like, I am not getting caught up

in this. This would be crazy. Instead, he says he sees him come in. He comes in and he's all stressed out and he

confesses to him and says that he regretted that he killed Tyler. Why is Lance still in the house at this point?

>> Yeah. Why is Lance still in the house? And why is he taking a picture of the note? And then he testifies, "I don't

know what I did with the note after that. I don't I don't know if I ever saw it again."

>> Yeah. >> Well, if you don't know if you saw it again, who burned the note? I think it's

supposed to put the burden on Tyler Robinson for coming home, finding the note, and burning it. They didn't say

that. Um, but the fact that he took a picture of it is it's it's it's like Fonza jumping the shark. I mean, it's

just at what point are we just saying, "Okay, >> this is ridiculous. It's too much."

Yeah. And again, a confession. A confession. Um, and so I I'm very keen on when the defense is going to be able

to question Lance about his sleeping spells, about how he knew that Tyler left around 4 or 5:00 that morning. um

why he was not interested at all in this the biggest assassination a manhunt that's happening and that even when he

was told and knew fully that Tyler Robinson was involved why he would be comfortable staying in that house and

staying in that environment. Uh >> I something else on that on his testimony. I'm very curious why his

mother had her big birthday party at 9:00 a.m. or 8 a.m. or whatever on the on the 11th. It was it was a very weird

um >> whose birthday party? Maybe I'm getting it wrong, but he he was going over to

his parents house and he felt like he couldn't leave. You remember that? He was saying, "I I don't know if I can

leave my parents house. I need to make up a reason to leave my parents house. >> You're a grown man. You live somewhere

else. I got to run an errand. I'll be back." Yeah. >> Why are you so worried about where mom

and dad think you're going? I mean, it's a it's a the entire narrative around Lance Twig's testimony, particularly

when he woke up the next morning. Did he wake up in his house? Did he wake up at his parents house? When did he go to his

parents house? When did he see Tyler Robinson? very muddy distinguishing between the text messages and his

testimony. It's hard to to reconcile both of them. They look very different to me on paper and and in his uh his

oral words. >> And I do want to say having done conducted our own investigations, I had

access to Twigs's family and they are just amazed that the police basically only questioned him for a couple of

hours and then let him go. And that seems crazy to me. >> Well, and the police didn't the police

didn't investigate him. He was the only one I think invest in investigated or questioned, excuse me, by the FBI,

>> right? >> Everybody else was questioned by state police. He was questioned by the FBI

>> and I I do feel he's a federal asset on the basis of what we've been told about his background. He, you know, flies into

rages. This is all true. He had substance abuse issues. He's terminally on the internet. I always wonder whether

or not he is a blackmailed federal asset and >> and sometimes he thinks he's a dog.

>> Yeah, he's got he's the one that fits a profile of someone that's going to do something crazy. And I do think that

it's plausible that he is was turned into a federal asset because he got into some trouble. Obviously, we can't assert

that definitively, but I do want to say that I find him to be the most suspicious person. Their lack of

interest in investigating and just taking his word at face value and letting him go after a couple of hours

makes no sense. >> And then they put up all six pictures of Tyl Tyler Robinson on campus. He's like,

"Yeah, I don't really re I can't definitive." And then he's like, "Oh, I guess in those last two I can

definitively state it." Well, you just saw all six of them. What? You couldn't definitively state it 20 seconds ago

when you saw these same pictures. What changed? >> Right.

>> And and we're not in a courtroom. We're we're in a in a in a Zoom call across the across the desk from each other. How

do we know somebody behind you didn't go, "Oh, >> right." Exactly. Yeah.

>> So, it is going to be really interesting when they finally allow uh that cross-examination of Lance Twigs. I

think a lot is going to come out and I think it's it's going to be very problematic for the feds. Um then we had

Sergeant Jennifer Jennifer Fuina Fuina from the FBI and she testified and I do want to just point out some things uh

that she testified about. First and foremost, she makes it clear that Tyler Robinson was excluded as the person who

the fingerprints belong to. So they had told us that they found fingerprints um where he climbed down on the window.

They had gathered these fingerprints and Lisa Farmer had gathered them. They had tested them and then they said these

fingerprints do not belong to Tyler Robinson. So, uh, that was something that he was removed from. She also

testified, uh, that when they found the gun, they found that there was one fired round and three unfired round with

unfired rounds with engravings that were still on them. Uh, she's the one that testifies about the note that was found

burned. So, I guess it wasn't a note. I mean, how hard is it to burn a piece of paper, right, in the trash can located

in the kitchen inside of their house that they collected that and sent it to the FBI. So, I guess Tyler was too dumb

to fully burn it. I don't know who who allegedly burned the note that it's not clear, but she does speak a little bit

about the uh the burned note, which we just mentioned. And um I found her to be unconvincing. The biggest part of her

testimony that that I want to talk about though is that backpack that she found. This is crazy.

>> Let me back up to the bullet for a second. I just thought of something for the first time since you've said it. If

you're hunting, if you're doing anything and you take a single shot and you have three more in the chamber or in the uh

in the magazine, you have three more ready to go and you take a single shot, you can't I mean a lot of times you

don't stay on the target with your scope. It moves. Particular 306, it's going to move. And so you are naturally

probably out of habit if you shoot often, but you're going to open the action and cycle the next round through

unless you only intend to take one shot, >> right? >> But if you only intend to take one shot,

why do you have three more rounds? Yeah, that's really interesting >> because they said they found it. I I

don't know why this has never clicked with me, but they said they found it with three um unspent rounds

>> and then the spent casing in the chamber. Why didn't he open the action and cycle another round if he took

multiple rounds with him? >> I always say it's that Chick-fil-A confidence he had. He just was flying

high that day. He was like one shot, got it. Don't even need the scope zero jumping off of a building. I Nobody

knows. >> It's the waffle fries and those fancy ketchup packs. That's I think yeah, he

he was just feeling extra on it that day. Again, I do not even believe that a shot was fired from that rooftop and I

think that it was all meant to be a distraction and they just had a guy run and jump off of that rooftop who had

nothing to do with what happened and Charlie was killed a different way, but we'll get to that later. I do want to

say that it was massive to me that they found unattended items, an unattended backpack um just outside of the Fulton

Library. There's a bus stop and there's a backpack. It's got a jacket. It's got gloves. And they take it to the lab.

It's a an abandoned backpack that was found on the route that the shooter took, the alleged shooter took after he

jumped off of the building. And then she testifies that they just stopped testing it because they got a phone call that

the backpack belonged to someone on Charlie's detail. >> Yeah,

>> that is insane. >> Seems like it's more a better reason to go test it.

>> That is insane. First off, what who on Charlie's detail was up by the Fulton Library bus stop abandoning a backpack?

And why? >> Yeah. >> Who is it?

>> And when? >> And when And why? And when you say detail, that makes is it security?

>> Yeah, cuz four of them left in the car. >> We have most of the rest of them still on camera. Christopher, I think it was

Christopher, was on the roof, I believe, and came back down. >> Who Who did it and when? And And why

can't we get an answer to that question instead of Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. are good.

>> That's crazy. >> Something collected as evidence belongs to them.

>> I think she said it had a mask in there. I'm like, "Okay, how did you just let this go?"

>> Yeah. >> Why would someone on Charlie's detail, which means someone that showed up with

Charlie? This means this is not like they would have said, "Oh, it was like a UVU student." Okay, maybe that could

make sense. A TV. Somebody on Charlie's detail abandoned a backpack at the Fton Library bus stop. Why? When? And how was

this returned? >> And where Yeah. You didn't know who the killer was. Why would you just go I rule

out everybody? If it can be a conspiracy, >> right? And that's that that gets to the

heart of it. Every time they stop, it's because they're they're convinc they they've so zeroed in on one person. And

even if it's not like they're all in on it. Sometimes this happens. You just get biased and you bias and you say, "Well,

we know we've got the guy, so we're going to oh, this might go down another trail. We don't need to go down another

trail because we've already got the guy." So, it might just be sloppy police work because of a an an implied bias or

an implicit bias. But regardless, it is a uh something that shocked me when they talked about it at the hearing.

>> Why did the person have gloves >> in September when it was 91 out? >> That right away stands out.

>> Yeah. >> Why did the security detail have gloves that Okay. I mean, that's right. They

didn't say security. They said someone on Charlie's detail. I thought security cuz they're the only people that I could

justify for having gloves. Maybe for some reason. I'm not going to go with a TPUSA employee having gloves.

>> Yeah, >> that this is a very problematic thing. >> It is.

>> And um again, something that Turning Point USA in their own capacity could get ahead of and not look shady and say,

"Oh, yeah, yeah, it was uh so and so's. It was, you know, Blake's backpack. >> Blake was gets lost. He has spells of

amnesia." >> Or or somebody on the detail and when everybody ran, they ran that way

>> and somebody they stopped at the bus stop. They were going to get on the bus stop. They recognized somebody that came

by. They jumped in and they forgot their bag. And this has been one of the biggest problems with Turning Point USA

is that even when they could provide clarity for things and not be shady, they always opt not to. Um, and they

kind of hide behind this idea, well, there's a trial going on. Okay. If anything that you tell the public

somehow gets in the way of Tyler Robinson being convicted, then we can't convict Tyler Robinson on the basis of

unreasonable doubt, like Yes. >> Exactly. So, the more information the better. Nothing can mess up the trial.

It's and so especially if you're just saying it was a backpack that was abandoned. You just say this person

suddenly decided to run all the way up and for some obscure reason said and now I've got to offload my backpack like

that something's very not right with that. So pay attention to that. Okay. The most significant testimony that

nobody could really get throughout the time because it got so scientific. But then when I rewatched it a couple of

times I was absolutely blown away um by what the defense walked Samantha Carner into. So Samantha Carner is the person