Understanding Masculine-Feminine Dynamics to Enhance Relationships

You asked why it is that I wanted to speak to you uh and that you were surprised that I would. I I can't

believe that you're surprised that I would want to speak to you. Uh I think I think the stuff that I've learned about

you and your work is I think you're phenomenal. I think you're absolutely wonderful. I think the idea of working

collaboratively to help women get more out of men. as in

treat men in a way that they want to be treated that causes them to behave in the best way that they can to serve

their partner to create this alchemy that ever refineses and transcends and includes I think is wonderful. I think

it's fantastic. >> Thank you. [sighs and gasps]

>> It's um it's a privilege. >> What is it? What is it that you're trying to achieve with your work?

>> Heaven on earth. Love. People choosing love again and again and

again over everything else. It's probably the easiest way to describe it. >> There's a lot of different routes to

heaven on earth. >> Yes. >> What's the one that you've chosen?

Um, oh boy, there's so many ways to go at this. I would say

the one that I've chosen has to do with paradigms, exposing paradigms, revealing paradigms,

reverse engineering, how the way that a paradigm, every paradigm makes certain things easy,

simple, obvious, >> it makes other things impossible. And if the results that you want are

impossible in the paradigm you're operating in, get a new one. Dement a new one. And

and even trade them out. [laughter] Like, ah, this gives me access. Okay, let's go there. And

when since I started studying men in February of 1991, when I found out I was bringing out the worst in y'all, which

was great news. I don't know if you've seen that in any of the content you've watched. Was the best news.

Can I swear? >> You can swear as much as you'd like. >> Oh, good. We have a policy um about

swearing, and that is that we do, >> but >> we are pro swearing. You're proudly

>> pro swearing. >> But but only because you can't separate truth from

transformation. If you water down the truth, you water down transformation.

>> Oh, and you are molesting the truth by getting in the way by limiting people's ability to use language.

>> Well, you you water down you water it down. And I'm all about potency.

And so precision and potency I think like an engineer so reverse engineering and then depending on the result you

want like there's such a thing as too potent for a particular result. >> Yeah. It's too refined, too condensed.

>> Yep. I love the word precision. >> Yeah. Or there's um in some cases I like I g I'll

generalize. I'll I'll generalize and I'll swing the pendum the pendulum so people can find themselves.

>> So it's purposely imprecise. >> Mhm. >> Right. [clears throat]

>> Yeah. The best songs do that as well. >> The best >> songs, music songs. I think there's a

degree >> I think there's a degree of vagueness in uh lyrics. So, um, for a long time,

just because I hadn't thought about it enough, I assumed there was nothing that could be said in a song that couldn't be

said in a book or a podcast because I have way more words. I'm way more precise. I can explain. I can revisit. I

can loop back. I can come from a different angle. But there's tons of stuff that you can say in songs

regardless of the fact there's a melody. There's stuff that you can say. There's a better way to say it. There's stuff

that you can say in poetry that I can't say on a podcast. >> Yes. you go. Well, the poem is limited

by its pentameters and the syllables and the the the phrases. And how is that the case? Well, because the vacuum, the

absence of explanation allows people to inject themselves into the story and it sucks them in.

>> Yes. >> So, the purposeful vagueness uh resonates.

Well, that's why Keys of the Kingdom and the Queen's Code and the sequel to the Queen's Code, which will be the King's

Code. That's why they're um like there's there's sex in those books,

but it's it's vague. >> The more explicit you are in a sex scene, then people are judging like, "Do

I want that?" or "No, I don't want that." You just leave it. just broad brush

strokes and then everybody finds themselves in there. They fill in their own pictures and then it can resonate

and yeah can get through. >> A meant easy to please. >> How rigorously are you using the word

please? >> However it lands for you. >> Okay. All right, we'll go in then. So,

there's please and there's pleasure. And when men talk about pleasing women, they're talking about causing

pleasure. [laughter] >> Mhm.

>> Thank goodness that's how you mean it. for women, which I assert is from being the smaller and weaker gender

um by virtue of the hormones that kick in at 21 days of gestation. If you're destined to have ovaries or sometimes I

call them unescended testicles, um we're just we're just always going to be

that way. The physical strength is a function of testosterone and and so because of that

and the if you think of millennia of survival mostly depended on physical strength.

Earth is a physical paradigm. There's physical dangers. It's need the brun. And so

and it's lasted all this time. And I I mean, you know, I've talked to thousands and thousands and thousands of women and

and I would call it a human instinct except for I what I've been working on for about the last 5 years is how many

survival instincts are consistent in humans, but they're not human.

Like we we share survival instincts with herd and pack animals with herd our prey, pack our predators.

So many of our behaviors are consistent with that including status like the status determines survival. You

got to you got to find it, build it, protect it, find your place that you want to be in the herd or the pack.

that's consistent with the amount of accountability that you want. Most people think of status as power, but

ultimately it's accountability, the level of survival. And so we have all these

all these behaviors and pleasing is one of them. And for women, we're terrified of being displeasing.

We we we strive to please and to avoid displeasing. And we're watching you so closely.

So closely to see what's pleasing and what's not pleasing. The cable woman within is has been

tracking you since the moment you walked through the door and you laughed at something. It's like, okay, I did that.

like just like noticing >> and you laughed when I laughed when I and then I went and told you about the

eyelashes. So, it's it's it's a constant it's a you could think of it as a it's a macro program and it's running in the

background. How about now? How about now? Is he pleased? Is he pleased? Oh, was he displeased just then? And we're

we'll actually act upon it. Your expressions, your gestures, your to tone of voice are cues to us to how to change

and adapt so that you'll save me. Cuz because we don't know who men really are, we think you're only going to save

the women you're pleased by. And if the tiger arrives now, and we've just had an argument, right?

Oh [ __ ] I'm I'm going to die. That's what it seems like. And so one of the things this makes us really sensitive to

is preferences. We we just we're just a suck for what your preferences are. And we we remember

them and we think we're paying attention to your preferences because we love you. And so if you really loved me, you would

be paying attention to mine. You would remember which drink I chose, including that when I chose the other

one, I chose the blueberry, right? And and it's it's I mean, it's just one of a thousand ways that we expect a man to be

like a woman, that you'd be tracking my preferences. You would you would hear all the hints

as a request. You would hear criticism as a request, a complaint as a request. Why didn't you do that as a request?

That would cause you to act. And when it doesn't, we draw all these conclusions that would

be what would be true for us. You didn't act upon that, so you must not care about me. It never occurs to us it

wasn't actionable. [laughter] That comment did not speak to the action command center at all and it has nothing

to do with how you feel about me. So when you say please, are men easy to please.

>> Um there are women who spent their entire lives trying to please men. And you're not that hard to please.

It's just not worth much. You don't The point in a man's life for what he

cares most about is being pleased. [laughter] That's like all the hunting's done, all

the building's done, all the accomplishing's done, all the animals have been caught and killed and

butchered. So now we're going to pay attention to what type of beer do we want. But it's that comes after

everything that men are driven to do. Everyone's we've created everything. We've protected everybody. We provided

for everybody. Oh yeah. No, I'd rather have a doseekis. It's so tiny the meaning of being

pleased to a man. But yet women are zeroed in on being pleasing and then they miss the

substance. They miss [sighs]

I mean would a man rather be pleased or empowered? >> Wow.

>> Would a man rather be pleased or admired? >> Would a man rather be pleased or

accepted? >> Would the same not be true for women if you offered them that task that uh that

option? I wish women could be that clear. I mean, that was easy for you, right? That

was that was an easy those were all easy, right? So easy. All my chips are on one.

>> So obvious. Yes. >> Unfortunately, we because of the meaning we attach to it, we want it all.

We want you to strive to meet my preferences and my needs and honor my values without me really talking to you

about what that would look like. [laughter] And of course, the mischief maker of

all, meet all my expectations without um me having to tell you anything. It's a surprise that anybody's able to

have a functioning relationship at all. >> Well, I've been accused of laughing too much. Do you know in an interview? I Why

is she laughing so much? I have to laugh. I I mean, we have a principle in our company. We have a sense of humor

about all. I have to because we're doomed. We We I a surprise. It's a miracle.

We have opposing instincts. >> We We seek the way I seek safety and you're likely to seek security.

You men only use the words safety when they're talking about okay, my family's safe

or you're safe to talk to. That's what men will say. She's safe to talk to.

The rest of the time, you don't pay attention to safety. You pay attention to being secure and it's factbased. It's

not a feeling. >> Can you delineate between safety and security for me?

>> Some people would use them interchangeably, but I pay a lot of attention to the words men use.

And and as I just said, I've only heard men use the word safe in regards to safe to talk to and my family is safe.

Everybody's safe. Like the fires in Los Angeles. How are you? Everyone's safe. And

and and security is based on a there's usually facts involved.

Insecurity. Yeah, I'm secure. I've got this much money in the bank. I've got this track record. I'm respected by

these people. I have these these people owe me favors. [laughter] What are my connections? What are all my

resources? Right? This is my influence. Okay, we're good. We're good. We're on

track. Is going to turn out. And and women who use the word safe a lot.

And it's hard to convey, but we're always paying attention to safety. It's a it's

a constant. It's one of the um estrogen creates a different kind of vision in women than in men. Hunting vision versus

gathering vision. And part of that gatherer's vision is always monitoring safety.

And for us and for children, for example, we're constantly monitoring safety. And it's a

feel safe. It's not so much factbased. It's a feel safe. And I remember um

my late husband when he came to our understanding women course

and he started to get it living living with me didn't always have him get it even though he was my he was my prime

guinea pig right and whenever we'd blow up the lab he when it was all cleaned up he'd say this is going to be in a

workshop. >> [laughter] [snorts]

>> you know. Yeah. >> And and I'd say if if you're willing and he would say

if it'll make a difference and oh he got so much acknowledgement when he'd sit in the back at the understanding women

workshop and I'm teaching men to understand women and the women are learning to understand themselves at the

same time. They they didn't know this about themselves. It took about I've been studying men, I think, for

about 12 years by the time I realized I could translate a woman into a man's reality.

And um but he he got it and he got this thing like [laughter] Greg Greg is was a car guy,

right? He left me three convertibles and [laughter] included including his favorite, the

Porsche. And [snorts] um and so moving in and out of traffic and that that was just fun for him. But

when he found out about women's peripheral vision and that when he would like move into a space, it occurs like

that car is going to hit me on the passenger side. >> Or there's studies that show

the faster an object's going, the bigger the difference between a man's ability to track it and a woman's ability to

track it. >> That's interesting. >> Yeah. So, so he would be [laughter]

he would be approaching and just slide over. Remember we're coming we're just come out of Las Vegas towards LA and

he's slide over and I'm sitting there and I'm having this terror reaction and I'm trying to fight it with facts. He's

never hit a truck. He's never hit a truck. He's never hit a truck. He's never [laughter] hit a truck. Like,

let's be factual. He's never hit a truck. Never. In all these years, he's never hit a truck. He's never hit a

truck. He's never hit a truck. He's never a truck. While my body is We're [gasps] gonna die.

[laughter] So, I'm not sure how we got there, but you

safety. Safety and security. >> Yes. So, so if I'm pleasing you, then I'm feeling safe

>> because there is that there's no way that somebody there's no way that a man who is pleased by you would not also

look out for your safety. >> We think that >> that's the

>> we think that but it's there's so many things that women trust too much including trust. But one of the

things we trust too much is connection. So we feel safe when we feel connected, when we're resonating, when we're like,

"Okay, you're with me. We got this thing going on." Like the first time you went like that. And it was like

the the reaction in my body to you doing that was just [laughter]

>> everything's going to be all right. Okay, we're connecting. [gasps] >> But again,

>> I didn't do it for you, but I'm glad I'm [laughter] glad it had that effect on you.

>> I assumed it was real. Um, but we're constantly monitoring it. So, in the next moment, are we still

connected? Are we still connected? But what I mean by trust too much is a woman will think like women in sales are

mystified when a man doesn't buy. But we had such a great connection.

You know, he doesn't ask her to marry him. But we have such a great connection. We should get married. She

like anything that you don't say yes to when we have a great connection is it's shocking. We We think it should count

for more than it does. Way more. like interviewing men. 12 things that make a person the right

person to commit to, the right person to marry. Love and connection are not in the list of 12.

[laughter] >> They don't show up. Oh, we have a great connection. No, there's 12 things and

they're all factual. They're all practical. They're all Men are so much smarter about commitment than women are.

And yet you're accused of being non-committal. No. A whole other myth to blow up. You I

was talking to Ryan about it. Y'all are naturally committal. Testosterone creates single focus.

Single focus de is commitment. Specific destination result. [laughter]

>> A goal. I mean, you you pick it and your brain screens out everything irrelevant. Be really interesting to know what your

what you came in focused on for today. [snorts] >> Did I come in focused on for today?

So I have a a tendency like a lot of insecure overachievers might do uh to focus on control

>> planning >> reduce down the optionality of the future so that I know

exactly how things are going to go. That makes me feel that makes me feel quite secure.

>> Yes. Um, [laughter] >> you want to blow that one up?

>> Has this turned into a [ __ ] therapy session? I've inverted this into a therapy session or what? Um,

>> it's not therapy cuz not personal. >> I understand. >> It's human.

>> Let me let me just finish that one out and I would love for you to >> please

>> blow me apart. In any case, >> I apologize for interrupting. >> No, no, no. You interrupt away. Um, I

don't know what it is. I've done a thousand over a thousand episodes now on the show and uh sometimes I turn up with

a real a real focus. There's something that I want to get out >> of this episode. Um and today and

because I'm trying to push my limits of discomfort around lots of patterns that have been around for a

very very long time. >> I really wanted this to be emergent. I really wanted to see what what comes out

of this. How does it feel to be in the room with Allison? like how do I how do I feel around her and what am I

interested in and I don't need to try and control oh well because in the back of my mind there's a bit of me that says

well I've still got the open loop around the please men thing and she said that that's not what's most important so I

need to go back to that at some point and I need to say okay please men isn't what's most important du let's go

through that well she's just opened up this really lovely window about the 12 things that you need in order to choose

whether someone's the right partner so we need to go back to that but she's also got this window open which is that

she needs to blow open my desire [laughter] for security so I'm like, you know, I've got this branching tree

that's sort of getting very tentacally, >> but I'm also just I really really wanted to get comfortable with just sitting in

the flow and and doing that, too. So, I'm I'm trying to balance both. Uh my intention coming in was was to just

really sort of sit and see where you want to go. I trust you. I genuinely trust you. And uh I think um we're going

to have an interesting conversation no matter what. No matter how weavy it gets or how much it meanders and lists

around. >> Yes. >> Um I [snorts] I want I want to hear

these 12 things. I think the the 12 It's too big of an open loop for me. I'm sorry. My old patterns coming back in

[laughter] to get me. Um >> you put a pin in it. >> Yeah.

>> There's a lot of things worth putting pins in. What are the 12 things that people

should decide whether a relationship is compatible or not based on? >> Oh, I wouldn't say there should. Um,

it's what I've learned men look for. >> Okay. >> That makes someone the right person. Um,

okay. So, we've got so many things. do put pins in. Okay, I'm going to rattle these off without

explanation, which is very hard for me to do. I getting to the point like being concise

to to me it's like you sound cool >> like when you say these things. Um but it doesn't serve people.

>> It doesn't necessarily give them access to something. But I'm going to try anyway. Okay, let's see if I can

remember them all. It's a long time since I led or watched that course. Um, okay. So, one thing, let's just start

here. Doesn't emasculate him too much. Too much changes over time in your stage. See?

>> Ah, you're doing it. You're doing it. Come on. Let's Allison, let's move on to number two. Okay.

>> God, you only got one in. We're one 12th of the way there. [ __ ] 8%. >> But it changes.

>> What's not too much to a prince is way too Stop it. Stop it. [laughter]

>> Okay. Stop it. >> Doesn't emasculate him too much. >> Too much.

>> She likes him. Genuinely likes him. There's volumes on that.

um ah sex. There's enough communication in sex. There's enough exploration in sex

that he thinks that he could do this with this one person for the rest of his life. [laughter]

It's enough variety right here between us. Okay, we we can do this. doesn't have to be perfect or

okay. [sighs] All right, I'm going to drop this one.

He thinks he can give her what he thinks she needs.

M. Mhm. >> That's a cliff. [laughter] How he figures out what she needs is a

whole topic. >> Mhm. Um, their values

as in where they come from are compatible. They may they don't have to be exactly

the same. They can even be complimentary. Their futures

have to be in the same direction. Are Are we headed the same direction? All of these are standalones,

by the way. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> Each one of them matters.

>> Someone could be 10 out of 12. No, we're not going to do this. Um

Oh, Polly. Ah um communication. So sex is one area of communication but

communication in general um is productive.

It's got to solve problems. [laughter] It's got to identify problems, solve

problems. um on the same team.

It could the way a man put it was when there's a problem, she doesn't make me the problem,

right? We stay on the same team. No matter what, we stay on the same team. Very hard for women to do. Okay,

that's all I can remember right now. >> That's okay. Eight of 12. Eight of 12. Eight of 12 is good. Um,

I see I see uh my friends and myself in in all of those. >> There we go.

>> She's attractive to him, which women don't understand at all. >> He She's attractive.

what we would call him making sense of men. Both sexually attractive and he's charmed and enchanted by her. She's

special. >> I think women wildly underestimate how much men are attracted to charm.

>> Oh my gosh. [snorts] Well, another topic. The four most charming

qualities in a woman. >> [laughter] >> You want to know?

>> Bring it on. Let's keep weaving this thing. This tree is huge. It's a redwood. Let's keep

>> Oh my gosh. Yeah. It's it's it's an aspen forest. Um, which is what I live in. Yes.

>> Four most charming qualities >> in a woman. >> In a woman.

>> Number one, self-confidence. It's hilarious because I've had panels

of men say, "It's probably different for other men, but for me it's self-confidence,

and they all say self-confidence." >> Um, I've unpacked that for a while. What does that mean? Uh, yeah, like about 20

years. Uh, the second would be authenticity. And men almost always use the word

courage. When she has the courage to be direct, when she has the courage to speak up,

when she has the courage to be who she really is, when she has the courage to say what she needs, when she has the

courage to share her dreams and authenticity in and so much of being a woman is about

pretense. Seriously, we're taught to pretend, push,

what was it called? That bra, the wonder bra. >> [laughter]

>> um laugh at jokes that you don't think are funny. I mean, so much of being a woman, we're literally taught to pretend

in order to be pleasing. And this is where we miss the mark. Men would much rather have authenticity

than someone who's pretending in order to be pleasing. Now, will you take it? Okay, it's better

than nothing. but not not worth a whole lot. Um, so self-confidence,

authenticity, passion, passion, which is it ends up in the

domain of marriage as well. She's the way that men put it is she's got to have something outside of me, outside of us

that feeds her. So, she's bringing something to us. >> Um,

can I go down this way a little bit? It doesn't seem to matter what she's passionate about as long as there's a

passion. A shared passion though is how cool is that, right? Um, and women wish that men would listen to them

talk longer, but they don't know that how long you can listen to us talk

depends on how we're being. If we're complaining, [laughter]

give me give me about 30 seconds. if we're talking about something we're passionate about and it's actually been

measured that that being with a woman who's obviously I I've had a show of hands men spend two

days with me and I like okay how many of you you have a greater sense of well-being than when you arrived they'll

raise their hands it's effect of a woman being passionate >> you guys actually it can be measured

you'll have a testosterone spike >> which is the well-being hormone. And um so yeah, women's got to have a passion

>> and be passionate. And it's really cute how men talk about >> Yeah. My my wife collects ceramic cows.

I don't know why, but it's her passion, so I'll spend my time off buying [laughter] her ceramic cow. Like it's it

becomes worth it. Um, and then the the fourth one, the fourth one is the most difficult for women because and they

don't know why it's so difficult because self-confidence, authenticity, and passion

all shift how a man's being. And and it's the opposite of of sexual

attraction, which self-confidence crosses over.

But then there's shiny hair, which is an indicator of being fertile. There's a shapely body.

All kinds of definitions of that. Men have no control over their imprint of the shape that gets them. Um,

sensuality, being present to the pleasure your own senses are bringing you, which causes

men to think of the pleasures they would like to bring you. And then the most the most is sexual energy. And it's the the

way I used to say it was it's the energy a woman puts out when she wants to put out.

And so, but these cause a man to want to take, give me that. I got to tap that.

[laughter] Like one of the [snorts] things I got in touch with about 15 years ago was like

if we were paying attention not just subconsciously um

do you like dogs? >> I love dogs. >> You love dogs. Have you trained a dog?

>> Try to >> try to. So So as in humans we had the lic system, right? which is always a

split second ahead of the prefrontal cortex. Right? So this is the impulse to do and

then this is choice. This can override well a dog I have a border collie and when he was a puppy I started training

him as if he were a horse which proved really effective and he he his body would be shaking

and I realized that the shaking came from impulse override impulse overright impulse override and he he wanted to

jump up on me so badly and he knew not to and [laughter] it's just shaking shaking

shaking Well, what women don't know, and it's one of the crazy things about how much

they lead with sexuality, is that a man is having the same reaction. That the impulse is grab it, [laughter]

grab it, take it, carried away. That that's the impulse. And then he's overwriting that. No, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. to whatever degree it has to depending on how antagonized

the most primitive in instinct on the planet. It but it it's why women feel really safe around gay men.

There's no there's no override. There's no vibration. There's no there's no tension. They just w you're just so easy

to be with. But meanwhile, we we exacerbate what makes it hard to be with a with a

straight man because of how much we think sexual attraction is what matters.

>> But this is what causes a man to want to take and these other qualities. Charming is what causes a man to want to give.

>> What was the fourth charming quality? >> I haven't said it yet. Good job.

receptivity because the first three make him want to give.

But if she's not receptive, she's caused him to want to give. And then she's like, "No, I can do that

myself. No, I don't need that. And I'll prove it to you. I don't need anything you got."

What you That's being a man. No way am I going to be accepted that. You want to give me your opinion? You want to teach

me what you know? You want to you want to protect me from a danger that you see that I'll argue against? Like

men are looking for women who are receptive both to who they are and

and what they want to give. They need to give. Uh-huh. >> Men need to give. Women need to give. We

need to give. >> But both men and women suck at receiving. Just suck at it.

>> Mhm. >> It's one of the best skills to work on. >> You say that appreciation is a form of

oxygen for men. >> [laughter]

>> How how important is it for women to seem impressed or giddy or appreciative or receptive of their partners?

>> Well, I call it peacocking. Um I remember when I realized that my

soon to be boyfriend was doing it. Um cuz I I was with my husband for 20 years. So ay I had to relearn everything

after he died. And uh so a man is attracted to a woman. He thinks she's special. There's some You guys are so

perceptive. You can see it across the room. Oh, who's that? Oh, she's special. Right

now there's something at stake. Now there's a nervousness now being turned down. Ouch. Right. And so he'll try to

impress, but if she's not impressed, you guys know if you can't impress her,

your chances of making her happy. >> Mhm. >> That's number 10.

>> We're going to end up [laughter] excavating the remaining two of the >> remaining. Yeah.

>> Yeah. He knows he can make her happy. Mhm. >> Um, huge, huge. Men marry men they women

they know they can make happen. Men don't marry women that they love, but they know they can't make her happy.

They um, if they can't impress her, like, oh, this is a non-starter if she's not impressed, which is like this much.

>> How am I ever going to make her happy? Well, I mean, I certainly know for me the sense of

being impressive is a wonderful motivator. >> Yes.

>> Do more of that. >> Good boy. Points. >> Points. Men play for points.

And it's not I don't know. Good boy. Good boy miner, but it could be, you know,

patronizing or matronizing, right? But but good job. Good job. Or wow.

Or there's a Have you Have you listened to or read The Queen's Code?

>> Yes. Yeah. Read it. >> Okay. So, um do you remember the line in there where Mike says to his wife Karen,

"I'm always trying to impress you. >> [laughter] >> And then she's like, "Then why don't you

take out the trash?" She's like, "That would impress you." Well, that's her job. I mean, pleasing a

man is is is tiny, like we talked about in the beginning, but to be impressed by him,

>> he would so much rather that you were impressed by him than he was pleased by you.

You know, we're getting towards the bullseye here, not like the outer edges. How do you how do you

advise women to cultivate uh more receptiveness, more uh displays of

appreciation and being impressed? [sighs] >> I can answer that, but I'm going to

start in a place that seems like I might not be. Okay. So,

this has showed up in the last year or so as I started letting the Kings code come through.

You know, I didn't write the books, right? Okay. So, [sighs]

women have an instinct that anything important, we have to tell you when and where we were, when it happened.

>> [laughter] >> They're all located in place and time, the important things. So, I was in my

car driving to Wyoming when the King's Code started downloading on the day that I put on my calendar that I was

going to start typing it. And it didn't get the memo that my daughter needed me. I was going to Wyoming and I'm not in

front of my laptop. It just came. It just started coming. And what I was shown was

how men and women both are always scanning for strength, searching, hunting for strength, scanning for

strength depending on the brain. And women are scanning for strength. That tells me you'd make a good

provider. You'd make a good protector. You you you could save me from the tiger. You could make sure I don't

starve. And oh, with those eyelashes, I want to have your babies. [laughter]

I have kids with long eyelashes. So, it's it's cute to watch. You're kind of blushing.

>> It's charming. It's a nice It's a It's a delightful [laughter] compliment. >> So So,

we're scanning Procreate, protect, provide. proc. And what we don't know is that what that

men are searching and they're searching for strength, but what they're looking for, depending

on the context, and let's talk about mating. Men are scanning for complimentary

strength. Complimentary strength. The way one man put it to me was Tom Brady is not

looking for another all-star quarterback. Tom Brady looking for a Jerry Rice.

So someone whose strength literally altered the possibilities of his own game. That's what a man's looking for. A

wife that she has complimentary strengths that alter his possibilities.

I'd be so much better off with her. I so should be with her. And but women don't know that you're doing that.

And this horrible thing happens, which is why I'm more on the side of age differences because it can happen less.

Not knowing that she's been picked for complimentary strengths. Then she criticizes him for not being

strong the way she is. when what he needs from this person he admires for her complimentary strength

is that she's admiring his complimentary strengths. This is what I bring. Why do you keep expecting me to bring what you

bring? This is what I bring. It'd be like Tom Brady being pissed at

Jerry Rice that he can't throw a ball. [laughter] Like so women will they'll be picked for

complimentary strength not knowing it and then they'll attack him they'll criticize him for not being like her and

then instead of seeing his strength and being impressed by it. I mean it's it's intoxicating in a good

way to be admired by someone you admire and It's

but it's like something happened to us probably in that vortex that I grew up in. A Barbie doll meets feminism.

Very very tough being born in 1960. >> I mean you got to get a man, keep a man, try to

make him act right. But never need him for anything. Anything he can do, I can do better.

>> Oh, yeah. That this was my message. >> I think it's still the message now. >> It It is. Yes. You have to have thigh

gap and a man, [laughter] but don't need him for anything. Um, but he's got to make more money than you

because how are you going to be better off with him? Which is another part of the question

you're asking. How can women get better at this is to pay attention to what you need from men

that even if you can do it right even if you can do that would you let him contribute that to you

>> and and even to go looking for I gave this assignment to this woman she's like I have never met a man stronger than me

ever and she's in our smart singles program and I was like, "Okay, here's your

assignment. I want you to for every man you encounter. I want you to have a question at the top of your head like a

treasure hunt. It's all about listening is all a treasure hunt. Most people the way they

listen, they filter out all the treasure. What do I think about that is how most people listen." [laughter]

So, I want you to have the question at the top of your head. How is this man strong?

And when you've gotten used to that question and every man you meet, you see strength in him in some color of the

rainbow. Then move on to how is this man stronger than me? Scary. It was so scary for her. She's

like said, "Yeah, go looking. How is this man stronger than me?" And I said, "And after you've got that

dialed in, then switch the question. How is this man stronger than me?" And I like it.

If you go looking for that, the whole world of men changes who what you can see who men are instead

of seeing how he's not acting like a woman. And so what's wrong with him and what's wrong with me that he won't

[laughter] treat me the way I clearly deserve to be treated? Oh, maybe I don't deserve it.

Let's work on that. Oh, that's a nightmare. [gasps] Whole other places we could go. But um

yeah, we're we it's a fundamental difference actually in men and women. We're our brains are

wired to find flaws. What what's the imperfection? What's the flaw? What needs to be fixed? And we

think when you're looking at me that when you're looking at us that you're doing that. Women don't know that men

are fed by beauty. So men's brains hunt beauty. Sort for beauty. You can find beauty in

anyone. It doesn't have to be perfect to for you to find beauty. Oh, that nose, those

lips. Like like it just [gasps] [sighs] who wouldn't want to be fed, right? And especially

when if you're [laughter] my grandpa, he would say, "I'm surrounded by pulpocritude."

[laughter] >> I don't know that word. >> It's a It's

It's an ugly word for beauty. [laughter] >> Okay. All right. >> Yeah.

>> The desire of men to feel needed and useful. uh I think is really interesting. Um and

it is certainly coming into conflict with a modern environment that is teaching men

uh teaching women that uh men are optional as opposed to uh mandatory investments in that way. I wonder

whether career women who have spent years cultivating masculine energy in their job

>> but also want to be looked after make it a a difficult situation >> for for the guys because women can

behave in a hyperindependent way like you don't need looking after. So they get treated as such by men. So

the very thing that they want is the very thing that they signal they don't need. If men think, well, you know, I've

tried to do these things and she didn't really seem that impressed and she's adamant that she's got it herself in any

case and she doesn't really need me all that much, I'll just stop offering it. >> I saw this um I saw this really

fascinating Instagram reel a few months ago that said uh in a relationship, men start off treating a woman the way they

want to be treated and after a while treat the woman the way that they have been treated by her. M

>> and this like I want I want I want but I'm also really trainable. I'm super super trainable.

And after a while this is what I've been crafted into. That was what I wanted and this is what it seems like you wanted.

Mhm. >> And uh yeah, this challenge that women have here of uh

blending a culture that says you should be as independent and reliant uh self-reliant

as possible with men need to be needed. They need to feel impressive and admired and useful.

>> Mhm. And you go, "Well, if I'm just optional, if I'm a a a ketchup packet on your value meal of life,

>> that doesn't make me feel very good." [sighs] >> Okay, you just said volumes.

The place that you started. If a woman has the attitude, what do I need men for? What do I need men for? My

assignment is answer that question. Don't ask it, answer it. So, what do I need men for?

It's another treasure hunt. What do I need men for? It's a great thing to answer and to look

and to actually see there are answers. If I'm not proving I can do everything, what do I need men for? And

I've done a lot of informal surveys. We used to work I was leading workshops 24 to 26 times a year for 20 years. And

so I'd end up in mostly all women for a very long time and then co-ed and I'd do these surveys

and I'd I'd ask the woman, okay, so think about how many women

that that you that you know are for you, they're your friends. How many women does it take

to make you feel as safe as one man you know is for you? And I've watched them and they're thinking and

thinking and thinking and then they start to shake their heads. There is no number of women

that makes a woman feel as safe as one man. that she knows is for her.

And this is why this thing we were talking about sexual attraction versus charmed and enchanted. If a woman is

leading with sexuality and bringing out take energy in men, >> they're either scary or she's sure she

can manipulate them, but she's still not going to feel safe. where if he's charmed and enchanted by

her which causes a man to care which is you guys closely guard caring

something else I learned from men you know it's your biggest expenditure of energy

and it and it's has this paradox which is another thing I love about you all you're the walking resolution of

paradoxes all the time. Women think men are simple. Men even say

men are simple. No. No. You not caring

can feel like freedom. Ah, I don't care. I don't care. I'm free. I'm free. But not caring can turn into I have no

purpose. My life is [ __ ] It's not for anything. Right? And then men have said when a woman needs something from me, I

have a purpose. >> It's just like there's something really beautiful about it, you know. And I I

think of it like this. You were making those other words. I think of it like this. I call it I call this generator

have providing, receiving, providing, receiving, providing, receiving. in in this beautiful dance if we're

allowing for it, if we're feeding it. And you asked about appreciation. Appreciation is

it's feeding. It's feeding providers. And providers are grateful to be received.

>> You let me. I asked him once, "Why do you do so much for me?" He said, "Because you let me." [laughter]

Oh, women aren't very good at letting men these days. Haven't been for a long time. Letting

men provide what is what they're compelled to provide. And so [sighs] there's so much that's cattywampus.

And but the addictive thing is such tiny changes make such a huge difference.

And like I was teaching a course in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. And we had

just done that part about how many women make you feel as safe as one man. And this and we were we were com were

finishing the workshop and people were sharing from their seats and this young woman took a microphone and she

announced to the whole room. She said, "I am gay." So what that means men is it doesn't

matter what you do. I'm not going to fall in love with you. But I want to say that still what she

said about one of you making me feel safer than any number woman is true for me. H.

>> And then on the other side, this big man stood up, took the microphone, and said,

"It'd be fair to call me a redneck, and my daughter's marrying a woman." And they started to cry.

But now I know from what that young lady just said that I still have something to give her.

Big tears coming down his red face. Another way I would put it, Chris, is that

femininity is a gift to women from men. That

femininity is its own kind of strength, feminine forms of power, its own kind of magic, mystery. I learned all this from

men, by the way. [laughter] But as long as we're being the warrior, we're the warrior. We're the hunter.

We're protecting ourselves or providing oursel for ourselves, we have no energy left or space left to be feminine.

Until we let ourselves be protected, till we in ent and trust you, which involves information women [laughter]

don't impart. Honey, what makes me feel really safe is

>> Oh, when you said trainable decades ago, one of my first interviews by telephone was like

I was I was talking about how women have it backwards. What we take personally, we shouldn't, what we don't take

personally, we should. And she and the woman said so like women are dyslexic. They they got it backwards and and it

just popped out of my mouth. I said, "Yeah, if we treated men like gods instead of dogs, it would work much

better." >> Yeah. >> And then I apologized to a group of men

for I'm so sorry that if you live with a woman who treats the dog better than you. And there were men. I mean, you

could see it on film like the faces are just like you could tell the ones and and like but even so yeah, men are dogs.

They're loyal. [laughter] They want to bring you stuff. They're always happy to see you. They're

so bummed. [laughter] when they when they think they haven't done good.

Okay, where are we going now? [snorts] >> Uh it's interesting the

direction of the arrow of causation >> between these two things. I saw a tweet [laughter] a while ago

>> trying to jumpst start me. >> Yeah. Yeah, I am riing you up. You haven't even had caffeine yet.

>> The direction of causation. >> Like >> as someone who's obsessed with cause and

effect, >> of course, >> the direction of causation.

>> Yeah. So, I saw I saw a tweet a while ago that said, uh, women love to submit, you just have to be him.

I think the suggestion here is that a woman's inability to be submissive or soften up or show needs

is because their partner isn't doing something right. And it seems like you've kind of left both sides open a

little bit at the moment that uh femininity is a gift from men to women that that is something that occurs

because we're able to protect and provide and make them feel safe, maybe a little bit secure, but mostly safe.

but also [laughter] women's. >> I'm sorry. I as soon as you said maybe a little bit secure, I was like, "Oh,

yeah. That's what this is about." >> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Put a ring on it. Then I'm secure.

You've promised all that's a big statistic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um that

it's men's uh job to it's their gift, the femininity. I'm showing up, I'm protecting, I'm providing, etc., etc.

but also that the receptivity of women, the preparedness to say, "I [snorts]

I do need you. >> I want to need you. I want to be able to open up. I want to soften."

>> Um I don't think I that tweet got to me a little bit. Women love to

submit. You just need to be him because it laid >> it laid at the feet of men women's

unpreparedness. It was almost like a like a [ __ ] test. You heard of [ __ ] tests from pickup artistry? Do you know

what these are? Okay. Um, so supposedly during the flirtation stage, women would sort of throw little sort of negy jokes

around to see how a man would respond. It's kind of a test of your self assuredness. Okay. Yeah, women maybe do

do that in a little bit of a way. It's I'll poke you a little bit and see how you respond. Are you able to stand up to

this sort of a thing? And I get that. And I think that in the flirtation stage that that's an interesting challenge if

you scale that across the rest of time throughout an entire relationship on every different domain that you're

trying to relate to your partner in which is in order for you to submit you have to be this never stopping

unrelenting completely omnipotent omniscient omnipresent force that is able to blast through. It's like well

women love to submit. You just have to be him is exactly the same as saying my shortcomings are your fault.

>> My unpreparedness to open up, my unpreparedness to be soft or to be gentle or to be submissive.

That's not a me. >> That's your job to overcome. >> That doesn't sound very collaborative.

I'm wondering when it comes to the direction of the arrow of causation here,

>> how you come to think about that with regards to needing.

>> There you go. >> Oh boy, I want a dictionary.

I I want to look up the difference between submit and surrender. Um,

oh my gosh. Um, let me just put I'll just say this this way in in a certain context.

I love to be ordered around tell me what to do. I am a happy camper. um in a particular context.

Other than that um so submit to to me submit has a element of putting

up with or submitting like >> like I one of the things I teach is beware of demanding.

demanding doesn't work because the other person only has a choice to submit or resist.

>> Interesting. >> Both will create resentment. >> I think with that uh

that is being used in the form of soften up or surrender I think is is probably what that means. So you're right to say

you really mean submit. You mean maybe submissive as in please take care of me, >> but not submit as in

okay, I submit. >> So I think you're I think you're right to call that out.

>> Yeah. So I worry about that. And the him part is an impossible ideal.

Impossible. Men have a a saying that I didn't understand for the longest time. I'm I'm

only human. I didn't understand that. I'm only human. And then I realized that women

expect men to be omnipotent and omnisient. Omnipresent. Oh, omnipresent. Every time I look at

you, you're there receptive to me looking back. >> [laughter]

>> And and I realized, oh, that's what women are looking for in men, that you're all powerful, all knowing, all

present. And and men are going, but I'm only human. Oh, we really do judge men relative to

what only God is supposed to be. And where there's a flaw then, okay, I'm talking about this, but I got

to bring in this. Okay, do you remember very early on I said women trust trust too much?

>> So I think men are much more discerning about this than women.

Women want to trust it. Have a blanket trust. They want to be able to trust you.

Period. I trust you. Early on, when you said you trust me, I wanted to say, "For what?"

Right? Because because we just want a blanket trust, which most women mean that if I trust

you, that means you're going to meet every expectation of mine. Can trust you to fulfill my stated and

unstated expectations to trust you to fulfill them even though you've never agreed to fulfill them. and

and and that's so we want to be able to trust you for everything. And if you do one little thing now, I can't trust you

for everything. I can't trust you. So, how would I ever surrender? How would I ever give up my autonomy and authority?

How would I ever get on the same team and let you call the play for gosh sakes? Can you tell I love sports? And

it's a great place to study, man. It's such a great place. So it so the there's actually something people

can look up. It's called the tr the trouble with trusting the opposite sex. And I start with the trouble with

trusting period and how we want this blanket trust and then there's a blanket violation instead of what I propose what

I assert is you can trust everyone if you pay attention to what you can trust them for.

I could trust my husband to eat chocolate every day no matter what he said otherwise.

when he died suddenly and the kids came and they went to clean out his office. [laughter]

It's been 6 and 1/2 years. There are still mice finding Hershey's chocolates and leaving the

foil behind, right? And so, but you can what can I trust him for? And so part of the clarity that men and women both need

if they're looking for a mate or a business partner, what do I need to be able to trust somebody for

be able to trust them for? Meaning they're trustworthy. They've proven that they're trustworthy for that in order to

have them be that important to me. In order to have my business in their hands, in order to have my life in their

hands, what do I need to trust them for? and and then find evidence before you commit. People commit way too quickly.

The due diligence is like, "Oh, we have chemistry and I love him and and he makes me feel

wonderful and and if I squint, you know, yeah, I'm getting everything I need." [laughter]

Let's not look too closely at that. I trust that he will eventually once we get married and I start changing

him. [snorts] >> So the unreality around all this, it's

primarily what we're doomed by. But besides opposing instincts, if we just were aware of opposing instincts and

knew we had to negotiate opposing instincts, it can turn out. But being clueless

about that, thinking men are a kind of woman and women are a kind of man. No, it's never going to work out. So,

so this surrender part over here, right, has to do with trust and what can I trust you for?

And just being a grownup, I can't trust you for everything. What do I need to be

able to trust you for? What? Okay. What do I see that I I do trust you for that? And there's

evidence. It's based on evidence that I can trust you for that. Okay, cool. Is there anything else that would make a

huge difference in my life if I could also trust you for that? And and that's the thing to have a

conversation about. And what would it look like? What what what would that look like to

be trusted for that? Most women don't trust their husbands to load the dishwasher

because he's not going to load it like her. He's going to load it so there's clean

dishes. Acceptably clean dishes. [laughter] It's one of the questions men asked me

like, "Well, you're going to close it early and have a party. Is that why everything has to be grouped just

right?" [laughter] Okay. did. Oh, then there's this other part

that you brought up. Needs [snorts and sighs] I've studied so long. Needs

when I when I first found out I was bringing out the worst in men, right, and went looking. [sighs]

Um, what I was sure of was that men either didn't care what I needed or they were actively

withholding it. like to get me. This was really my behavior in my first

marriage actively withholding. Oh well, we have our son who's just like about 6 months younger