Travel Industry Insights: Founders on Hotels, AI, and Gen Z Trends

So, this [clears throat] episode was bit of an experiment [music] for all of us. We wanted to switch things up, but

without messing the flow that you're used to. >> Usually, when a term or stat comes up in

the episode, we break it [music] down within the episode. This time, we thought, why not just go find the stat

instead? >> So, we sat down with a few founders in the travel space right [music] now. Got

them talking about what worked, what didn't, what they would do differently. So we have kind of woven bits and pieces

of it. >> So you guys have real context instead [music] of just explaining things to

you. >> But if you want to dig deeper, get more insight on the data, the timestamps, the

references, whatnot, all of it is going to be attached in a document below. >> So yeah, new format, new experiment.

>> Uh we hope you guys like it and let us know if you do. >> It's okay if you don't also. It's fine.

We don't need to know. It's okay. >> [music] >> Mhm.

>> We have like three questions left. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, I'm just going to ask you like

random questions to just break the ice so that you feel [music] more comfortable and then we'll get into it.

>> Sorry, I was looking there. >> Can't wait. I'm very curious. >> So, how would people describe you?

Good question. >> I think maybe a simple honest man, >> passionate, perseverant, [music]

never ever give up. >> And how long have you been in this industry?

>> In this travel and tourism industry, [music] about 26 years. >> 45 years, including hotel school.

>> If someone who's in their 20s and [music] 30s, where would you tell them to travel?

>> Travel wherever your heart and your wallet takes you, but don't stop traveling.

>> Wow. Let's start [music] with your stories. >> Very good.

>> And would you do it again? >> Oh, for sure. >> In terms of travel.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm >> super excited about doing this every day.

>> Travel is so liberating. Um, I think we've only scratched the surface >> for a youngster, for a 25year-old

because he doesn't have the capital required to build an asset. Maybe a asset like hotel brand can be built on

the back of content. [music] >> [music]

>> How far is Punit? So I want to see if we can actually we are starting early. He's coming on time only.

>> Yeah. Yeah, he's coming on time. He He said 2:30. >> Yeah,

>> they gone down to get him. Are you friends with him already? >> No. With Punit? Yeah,

>> of course. Of course. His partner. No. >> He He's one of our uh top hotel partners.

Yeah. Yeah. I know him. Punit. Punit came from Germany >> to take this job.

>> From Germany. >> Huh? He was in Frankfurt. >> What was he doing there?

>> He was working >> working there. He'll tell you more about it. But um [snorts]

um ever since he's come on board. We've been working together. We work with every hotel partner. No, right now

thanks to our model. But uh even during co the the partnership became very strong because he was also very he's

also one of those who wants to do not necessarily for only ICL but also for the industry.

So just you know coming together and trying to do more for the industry all the time he's part of every association

and stuff like that. So that way pretty close partner actually. >> Now these guys

all the hotel what's happening with ou? >> Yeah to pivot >> but pivot is working.

>> Pivot is working at least on the face of it when you look at the numbers it is working.

>> What percentage of your business is India bookings versus outside. >> So in bookings the Indians booking on

our platform 95%. So the main market is India only. There you go.

Hi. Hello. Hi. Nik. How's your day? [music] >> For those who don't know you, you state

your name, role, and the company. >> Hi, my name is Sadhart Gupta. I'm the co-founder and CEO at Tribo Hospitality

Ventures. >> Hi, my name is Amit Damani. I'm the co-founder of Stavista. Stavista is

India's largest villa hospitality brand. We manage over 1500 plus luxury villas across the country.

>> So I am my name is Syia Chandra Shikaraya. Uh I am a co-founder of India Hikes. Uh India Hikes is India's largest

trekking organization. >> My name is Bhavaka Bakshi. Um I am the co-founder of an invite only travel club

called Betto Travels. >> You can take off your jacket if you like. I'm totally fine.

You want to mic him first? Mic pen. >> Yes, sir. >> Hotelers always dress so well. I can see

your logo on your shirt and all that. >> Now, you can take a break whenever you want.

>> Yeah, >> I know. It's a beautiful place. I've never been here before.

>> I've never been here. I mean >> I look at the teris in the area itself >> pali hill

>> only once in 8 years ago. >> Yeah. >> I've been here back in the days. My

uncle used to live in Bandra. >> One of these 15 16 street. >> I don't mind black coffee. I'll have

>> black coffee. Give me also one. >> I'm looking for the place. >> Is it too noisy if you open this?

Yeah, >> it's nice. Weather's good. >> You seem to have quite a name, huh?

>> Of course. >> Oh, I I'm sorry. I was not in the country.

>> That's what I was just telling him. And he's waiting for you to tell him more. >> But

>> I hope good, not bad. >> Very good. [laughter] They say like >> it's a

>> you did things on your own. U but it was not like >> like from day one you were cash positive

or I mean like not like somebody >> what a story zero is. What a story. What a story

because he must be playing on your platform. [laughter] He said

[laughter] it's a cycle. No. Good, bad, good, bad, good to mathematically maybe it's a bad

thing. >> Sorry. He told me our CFO told me what Grow is doing now is inspired from what

you have done >> and they followed them. >> Come on.

And of course he had told me everything that you are the most famous Indian person who has I don't know done Elon

Musk. were just chatting about it and I'm saying why don't you join so I sent him he said you know you tell me and all

I sent him Elon Musk [laughter] so he said please have a look and then you'll

really grow and how do you know each other ecosystem

[laughter] >> yeah I do actually >> internet you must be using make I hope

so >> I've used it many times. I've stayed at Taj Hotels many times. I don't know who

hasn't, but I have. >> Yeah. >> Let's start with your stories so we get

a little context. So, we focus on everything a youngster needs to either

start a business around his or your business or to find a job around your industries. So we look at trends, we

look at patterns, we'll talk about what is growing at what pace, what industry will get disrupted where

they can build early. So we largely focus on things like this. Our audience is largely entrepreneurs or

wannabe >> business and relaxed line. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Uh >> totally like it's not like a news show. You want

to take a break. You want to do whatever we can do. Office.

>> You have to go. We opened a small boutique place called Bandra House on Turner Road.

>> Are boutique places really working? >> They work. >> You think they have mad potential? They

have mad potential. >> We just invested in a boutique hotel brand which is opening in uh Portugal,

Dubai, Saudi. It's called Earth Hotels. >> Earth Hotels. >> Ah, na brand. It's in partnership with

three Lebanese guys. It's us and them. We're opening five hotels in the next 18 months kind of

thing. First one is almost open in Dubai. J1 experiential hotels

>> 40 50 rooms hotel is 38 rooms >> but once you open say we open five

hotels in the next 2 years won't it become like a large hotel anyway?

>> No. How do you retain the boutique nature of something? >> By not doing everything to get business.

You just pick up good locations. So there has been a good boutique brand done by people of Indian origin now sold

to Marott called Citizen M. >> Absolutely. >> Citizen M did a good job.

>> Even 25 hours is >> 25 hours is very good. But they got very lucky with the start. So they started

with Bikini Berlin >> with a monkey bar. >> So that monkey bar became more famous

because it's overlooking the zoo. It's not normal seating. You have all these like steps

Indian style gas. [snorts] So it did very well and then is nothing succeeds like

success like mama shelterance. He actually modeled after this only citizen M and 25th R. M abs there you go

I've stayed in citizen M is beautiful actually >> the concept the other good thing about

experiential also is you can leverage technology quite a bit >> citizen m also does it no you know you

don't have to you can bring in the touch and all but you can also do bring in better highquality experience which is

powered by technology >> and it's easier for people who are non hotel so citizen m was started by a guy

who sold sold Max to Liz Clearborn, you know, for whatever 800 900

>> m >> million pounds or a billion pounds [snorts]

and then for his kids he thought he'll do something and he bought a yacht and this and that

story >> very interesting but it's very powerful point by the way I just wanted to build

on this that it is better built by nonutilia so sometimes If you have to do out of box thing, you don't have to get

the same person from the industry >> right >> there. So much of baggage, legacy, etc.

I remember even in make my trip >> when we were setting it up, none of us knew travel.

>> Not even one person except one co-founder who had some travel background.

Starting with Deep, me, Sachin, Gayor, Cayur was the only one who had some background and our leadership team

even looking for the next level of talent when we were scaling up. We were not looking from travel.

We were not looking for travel because in any case we were techled business but um domain was not important

>> we realized because then you get fresh perspective out of box thinking and stuff. All right.

>> Maybe so our audience get a little gets a little context of

I don't know why I'm speaking more Hindi today. Maybe because you're from Delhi Bombay

maybe after you. [laughter] [clears throat]

>> All right. Okay. So let's talk about it takes too much time to [laughter]

already pulling. So >> actually happened when we were on a panel together. Okay. [laughter]

I don't think you found anyone in the morning. No, it's not right. No, it's not real. At least I didn't realize it

was I thought a hotel will list on everything. Yeah. If you are on MMT, you won't be on booking.

>> No, we are on all. >> Uh then how does it matter? >> It does matter because a lot of uh our

offers are going through them. We have not done any special campaign with booking.

>> So you're saying >> or with Expedia >> where you discount people will take from

there. >> No discount. whatever kind of deal we do and

special one I >> I guess it's also a function of um market focus and the power of the brand

right you know so let's say you know in comparison if you look at any brand in any category if you're looking at uh a

particular online platform or brand which has built significant traffic and traction

>> and the ROI spending or investing on that brand will be higher >> so to end up just doing it there

relatively speaking I'm just very dispassionately speaking otherwise you're right the inventory will be there

uh theoretically speaking everywhere >> and you go to Taj and crack these deals deals with

>> it's actually much more than that so what happens in a closed partnership which Punit was alluding to is that both

the respective teams actually almost thinking that this is our own channel they start to look at lot of the data

and then based on that react right which is like almost day-to-day engagement. So there will be a tiny group on that side.

There will be a tiny group on our side working very closely hotel by hotel many examples. Now let's say new property we

were just in the morning talking about uh new hotel that has come up in Frankfurt for example. So we were

talking about how do we now get traction from ECMATIR for Frankfurt right for and we were talking about international

traffic growing in in India and then you start to figure out because see we also on our platform and pretty much every

e-commerce platform would have many properties that you would have built right just to to you know of course from

the demand side you keep getting customers and from a brand perspective that you

have more than one product offering to offer you you know, including the brand store, including the, you know, I guess

maybe you were talking about sponsored listing versus non-sponsored listing, etc. Of course, all of that comes with

investment, >> but it's like a very sort of close. >> So, they give a deal on MMT. In return

for that, you pay them money. >> No, we don't pay them money. No, that was half joking.

>> Do you buy rooms and then resell? >> No, we don't. We don't. >> In airline tickets, that happens. No,

they call it aggregation. I tell you where it happens. No, you can pre- buy during season and all in pockets. So

let's say early days make my trip would buy for our packages business where you have to bundle it together,

>> right? >> But large part of our business. So we have a packages unit where we would in

season where there will be short inventory that you would end up sort of buying over time when you have reached

the scale and size you don't actually have to upfront buy everything because of the

>> is there a deal do your margins go up if you upfront buy >> they do they do they do

>> significantly for tickets and hotels >> put money on the table both sides you're putting money on the table because

there's risk right because then you carry that inventory >> then why not do

because it's not sustainable because see not necessarily so it also comes with carrying law inventory carrying headache

right because at a scale it'll be very hard right >> for you to do it whatever if it doesn't

happen right it's a classical inventory model even in the other categories versus allocation model and especially

when you have reached a scale in size if you get soft blocks as we call it >> which means that I will have that

commitment but I don't have to write 100% upfront check because I have delivered historically

>> right then you don't have to block >> then I don't really have to block the >> and that's true for airline tickets and

hotel rooms >> both both both any product any >> competition and what scale are they at

>> so you know so when you look at India market so our competition so overall travel and tourism market distribution

channels will be online which is like online travel agency model like ours and then they will be offline there will be

tour operators there will corporate travel agencies, there will be traditional travel agents. You know,

theoretically, everybody is competition, right? Because everybody is sort of selling in the market. But in the online

market, our competition will be online travel agencies. So, credit, booking.com, a good yatra. uh so let's

say air market I think it'll be toss between earlier it used to be yatra

but you know it keeps changing maybe clear trip yatra together bracketed but distinct

like for our uh uh total market share for domestic air segments will be about 30%.

Um and they might be singledigit high singledigit right

>> that kind of stuff and it's all fragmented then rest of it is really long tail

>> whenever I book a hotel I have somehow come to terms with the fact that if I go to the hotel website directly I get the

best deal how do you compete with that like if I go to Taj website that particular

>> you only get Taj when you go to their website you get all possible choices >> but I can go to their website look at

which hotel then go to the hotel website directly and book. >> Yeah.

>> Usually there is rate parity. It's not that we have cheaper but you know the best deals are available on the hotel

website. >> They are right. >> So you are smart others are not

[laughter] >> rate parity came up on the show and the admission was that the best deals sit on

the hotel's own website not the aggregators. You are on both sides of it. stayista.com and also listed on the

big platforms. What share of your nights come through someone else's app and what does the

guest cost you compared to the ones you directly book? >> Yeah, so Staa is a hospitality brand. We

have exclusive rights over the property. So all sales are routed through us. We are responsible for distributing it

across all platforms. Whether it's Tista's website or whether it's through our contact center, whether it's through

our social media or whether it's through partners like OTAAS such as Airbnb, Booking.com, Make My Trip and even

offline travel agents who play a critical role uh in this entire distribution network. So all of these

channels are something that we look at maximizing our returns through. We try to give the best rates across all

platforms. So the rates will pretty much be the same across all platforms. At the end of the day as I shared experience is

what wins a guest. So if we are able to build that relationship with that guest just like a offline travel agent might

be then they stick with us and they keep booking with us. >> I think I'll tell you what happens maybe

just building on that right. So what happens? You're right. >> There will be section of people who

would want to do it. We used to call it shopping. It happens again in every online category that you will in the

browser world there used to be it was easy for you to flip from one browser to the second and a third browser in the

app world >> because if you're on one browser the history you guys get to see

>> yes right to the wider selection to punish each point right because and not only that

>> is that still the case like if I'm on Chrome and I'm scrolling and I've come to your website I come back the second

time around the price would have changed >> could change >> but this browser is shared by every

browser. >> Not really, not necessarily. By the way, in any case, the browser market has

moved to app market now predominantly. >> Right? >> So right now volume- wise overwhelming

75 80% of the bookings will happen in the app. >> Right.

>> There the switching is not easy. >> You give incentive to download >> real estate, huh? Download app.

Absolutely. >> So that landscape has changed significantly. But that shopping

behavior the other reason why the shopping behavior also change if you are a repeat buyer

>> and that is a function of what experience I have been giving it to you not [clears throat] pre-sales not

booking experience but also post sales >> what happens when the mayhem happens middle east crisis happened

>> right what kind of service are we sort of offering accessibility to customer and so on over a period of time the

trust gets built >> lot about providing the experience than just the pricing to be honest.

>> Of course, there will be segment like domestic air to today could be you know considered as very price sensitive

market >> right >> but international is not because you

will also have many options which could be very different. Don't you end up buying from where you have the highest

loyalty points generally? uh depending upon because see you probably are thinking that only one

cohort which is a small percentage of the consumer cohort >> right

>> not the thinking affluent >> you you're thinking only affluent affluent perhaps

>> right >> and you know yes today you can go to smart buy and you have the infinia card

on HDFC you can buy you leveraging your points >> right

>> but guess what that also is being powered by one of us >> right

>> right so >> other other stuff about you that I have in my research chartered accountant

here. >> You see it >> from Delhi.

>> He's a cricketer. >> Huh? >> Cricketer.

>> You're a cricketer. >> I used to play cricket. >> Like serious serious?

>> No. No. Not serious. Corporate cricket. >> Ab like later in life or >> later in see now I'm playing badminton.

So I I actually like playing sports. >> Paddle. My son is playing paddle. >> Next is paddle only. [laughter]

Kabi. >> Fine. >> 57.

>> 57. >> Looks much younger. >> Yeah, he does. And

>> I am 62. >> You're 62. >> You're the co-ounder. I'm a

>> senior citizen. L2. [laughter] >> You look like the naughtier naughtier

person of the two. [laughter] >> Every hotel [clears throat] year is

naughty. >> Yeah. Every hotel year is naughty. >> That I don't know.

>> Why is that? M >> because they live in that world. >> You have to entertain in a way, right?

Not in your role, but maybe in the beginning. >> No, I call myself chief entertainment

officer. >> Yeah, you go. >> Yeah.

What is Plakshshire University connection? I like Pla University. I think they're doing a great job.

>> Quite like it and that is the reason. So this is in moi basically new age engineering college

computer science lot more focused on data science AI and so on. >> You're co-founder of that?

>> No no well co-founder is that >> just with I have not I'm not part of the founding team. I just started to sort of

make I've just made the humble beginning >> and that happened thanks to a a friend who was the founder or a co-founder

>> from the founding team when it was set up >> but the thought behind that was nickel

very simple you know when it was basically to give back >> right so where can you sort of

contribute >> and there was a and there is a you know I I guess history

you know you also have to have an interest area right so education is one of the interest areas

because both my folks were professors >> yeah both your parents now >> even we are part of university I think

they're all doing a good job not just that ashish dhan >> of course ashoka

>> yeah they're all doing a great job something interesting is happening in mo >> yeah very interesting

>> we actually wanted to go like I was not here this protest I was watching I thought we should go to these new

universities and have a conversation on >> what is wrong with education. You would love it because and recently there was a

convocation when you see this >> the new badge coming out and all of that and this is like a make one trip right

it is >> you know even Ashoka >> uh liberal arts the focus of liberal

arts had done fantastically well and Ashish is like a phenomenal guy Ashish deep is also deeply involved by the way

>> uh with with the shoka so that >> I think this category of this Ashish Manish Sabwal this group of people

they're all interesting to speak to >> and Sanja >> and Sanjiv you were at info edge also

>> no I was not at info edge I've just joined the board >> used to be on our board aa

>> what is the thesis now >> what is the thesis >> now for info edge

[laughter] >> I don't know I'm the board member I'm the insider so I can't talk about it

it's just early days for me >> but I'm sure they would be thinking more see they have two businesses right so

there's the core business and they've diversified from the core business and then they've got the investment business

right >> right >> and investment is again the same thesis

continues right I'm sure there will be AI focus right now a lot of investments happening

>> in the core business I think it's AI basically you know how do you sort of navigate that

>> uh let's say no business which is their core traditional business now the new avdar of no with new products etc

powered by AI >> would you like to Go next. >> Very good.

>> I know you're also from Delhi. >> That's correct. >> Germany may

>> Europe other time Germany. >> Give us a little bit of a trajectory. Where did you you grew up in Delhi till

what year? I was in Delhi more or less till the age of 25 and then spent the next

28 years in Europe. >> So you started hotel management joined

in the >> 81 to 84 84 to 89 I started with the government

India Tourism Development Corporation. M >> most of the time I spent was at the Ashoke Hotel uh Delhi.

>> Mhm. >> And 89 >> I left. M

>> and I went to Paris for 2 years. >> What were you doing in Paris?

>> My masters that time there was a program which is still there. So it's a business school called ESC

one of the five grande calls of France which had a 50/50 tie up with Cornell from US so it was called Cornell

>> right >> I did my masters there and then went to Germany

worked in consulting worked for what is today called Rison Hotels worldwide for almost

15 years and then went on to run a hotel company in Germany for 5 years and

>> hospitality >> hospitality and then back to where it all started

from >> initially declined the offer to become CEO CEO of Taj Hotels in 2013

>> was as I that I was only one year as CEO >> and it's not that easy in Europe to be CEO those people are making an exception

they're putting your trust into you. >> So that was one of the reasons. Second is that family, you know, trying to keep

the family together, school, class 12, etc. >> This is Ratant Tatayara. No,

>> this is Rat Tat. >> He asked you. >> No, he never asked. Actually, there was

a lot of that that he flew specially to talk to me. No, that's not true. It's not true. The only person I met uh

I mean besides the other board members was uh the current chairman of Tatasan. So

>> who is >> and Chandra Shakhan. So he's the one who hired me

and it went pretty fast. >> And the hotel business was not doing well before you.

>> Yeah, we almost had 10 years of losses. Mhm. >> And uh

>> would you prefer Taj Hotels or do you prefer IHCL? >> I'm the one who started using IHCL. The

founder named the company Indian Hotels Company Limited. The name Indian Hotels exists since 125 years because we just

did our 125th AGM. But nobody used it because in that new India post independence

until maybe 20 years ago we still had that spirit of only luxury >> only going to our private membership

club like chambers >> Taj being the crown jewel of everyone including

India including Tata group so you rather use Taj group but there was never a company which was called Taj Group

>> right >> the company's name was always Indian hotels. So what in my experience it does

is it does not allow other brands to stand on their feet. You're always like a second child or a stepchild or a

>> what are the big brands in the group >> today? We have um we have almost 14 brands but the ones

which are coming up very strongly is Vivanta Gateway

and in terms of scale it's obviously ginger but we also have in boutique luxury uh clarages collection which

includes the clarages in Delhi the Pune blue diamond will be clares um it also has the newly acquired brand

called bridge very famous for the bridge Rama in uh Puly city of Banaras. Uh so lots of brands of uh our

>> armor right >> armor in homeay business which is now scaled up almost to 400

>> absolutely >> uh created during during co >> during

>> cumin cumin and amma created during co >> as home delivery and now cumin is also become the all day dining of ginger so

ginger sits in a company called roots corporation And both cumin and ginger are root

vegetable or root spice. So it all just somehow came together. It was not a part of a strategy but when things happen

they happen. >> Can you give us a picture of your life where you were and how you came up with

the idea of starting this company? >> So um we started Tribo back in 2015. And um I have to say I had no business

starting this business. I was I'm a bit of an incidental hotel year. Um my background is in engineering, MBA like a

lot of other I guess founders. But um while I was at Mckenzie in my consulting job, I was staying a lot in hotels. So

that's the closest I've gotten to hotels in general. But yeah, back in 2015 uh after a short stint at Myntra was was

thinking about what to do next and travel in general seemed like an exciting space uh because we could see

the income pyramid of the country shifting and it was evident that a lot more people will start traveling than

what we had seen in the 10 years before and therefore it seemed exciting to build value brands in the travel space

and that's what Tribo was all about. So it's been over 10 years since Ankit Pranam and I started stay at that point

Airbnb was still entering the Indian market. People were not really staying at villas. Villas as a concept was still

very new. The people who might have stayed at these would have stayed abroad. But what we saw as an

opportunity was that there were beautiful homes that people had made but they weren't utilizing them. They needed

a trusted partner who can take care of the entire hassle of hosting. That's where we come in for a homeowner and

then for a consumer where the entire experience layer where we offer an entire experience to a guest whether

it's uh housekeeping services whether it's spa services whether it's food whether it's decor for a celebration

everything is taken care by us so that when people come together and stay at our homes they have a fab fabulous time

>> so when I was working at I was really happy I was working as a head of operations but there was something

missing inside me and one random day I thought of taking a solo trip to Rishakkesh and uh it was back in 2022

wherein solo travel for a women used to be like a big thing and I remember booking the bus and my mother crying

that dude what is happening why are you going alone we you have us you have your you know friends but I was like I want

to do this and I actually was supposed to go there for 3 days but I spent 2 weeks there hitchhiked traveled solo

explored host and when I came back I realized is solo travel is so liberating like you can do whatever you want to do

because when you're with your friends when you're with your family you have to also make sure that you are understand

you want you know you're also accommodating their needs but when you're solo you can do whatever you want

to do and then my co-founder was also working in the same organization and I pushed him to go to Bali take a solo

trip he came back and he had the same reaction that bhavika I am not traveling with anyone I am I'm

going to travel solo because it was so so liberating and I could feel the freedom and then both of us also took

certain community trips wherein there was no filtration like we were in our 20 we were we are in our 20ies and there

were people in their 40s and of course our problems and our things of discussion were different and their

things of discussion were different and uh there was no racial control and even though the concept was great we were not

coming back with the right sort of people and that's when we you know decided to start with something like

Bokeetto which is an invite only company. So anybody who wants to join us they have to request their invite

mention their age, their city, what do they do and why do they want to travel with us and then we get on a call with

them to understand more and then we try to just have people you know we just try to find common thread between all the

people who are joining us. Um and that is one of the major reasons u a lot of people have found their soulmates out of

Buketto. We've covered all of that. People have found their business partners. People have found their best

of friends out of Buketto. So that is um how Betto came into place and that is how you know we that was the idea behind

it that we just wanted to make the right sort of people come together and have a great time all together. So um my

co-founder is was a senior tracker was an experienced tracker. Uh me on one on the other side I was working in the

corporate I was a software engineer. I would gather my colleagues and we would go trekking in the western gards. So it

was two different stories. Uh he would be somebody who would organize tres with his friends in the Himalayas and um so

India hikes was his brainchild saying uh despite being blessed with the Himalayas we don't trek. And um during his many

tres he uh realized that the lack of information is the biggest problem that plagues us. People don't know that these

are possible. And that's when he wrote a blog about the Rukun tre which he had been on. And the blog became very very

popular and people started to go to Rukun on their own uh by referring the blog. Uh my parallel story was I used to

tre in the western parts. I wanted to track in the Himalayas too and I was referring various blogs and resources

and I stumbled upon his blog took inspiration from his blog and I wanted to organize my own track to Rukot. Uh

back then there were no organizers like India hikes where I could go. Uh basically uh you had to either spend a

lot of money and you had to have a group of your own because going as one or two people was impossible to the Himalayas.

And um I in the quest of making my own group to go to the Himalayas following that blog I went and placed a comment on

his blog saying uh I'm forming a group would anybody like to join me and that's when Arjun wrote back to me saying uh I

am doing this uh we are launching a small thing called as India heights would you want to be a part of that

group now that's where I said yes uh why not I referring to your blog if I get to go with you that's great and um over and

that trick happened to be the very first trek of India hikes and um over the tre um the impact the tre had on me the

impact the tre had on my uh fellow treers uh I just stayed in touch with Arjun I did not want to let that world

go despite uh being a software engineer and I started helping him in uh publicizing India heights publicizing

the rupun trek designing the track for the next season um so I was an an integral part of the next season of the

tre that happened um our association continued like this for about 7 to 8 months and that's when he said okay I

think you should uh take a call if perhaps you want to just switch over from your software work to come into

India hikes be with me and let us grow this because we have an opportunity here how big are the two companies for scale

I know you're listed so you can talk about the number >> yeah yeah

>> how big is MMT now >> well make my trip let's say gross booking value last year fully full last

year reported it's about 11 billion >> and margin but gross take rate is about let's say that is revenue line for us is

about 10 10 and a half% so over a billion dollar >> so revenue actual revenue is like

>> is over a billion dollar >> and on the profitability fund >> and uh I our adjusted ebid number

adjustment is only sharebased compensation is 1.7% of the gross booking number

>> which is >> which is 170 million >> right

>> roughly >> and ICL reported its results for the last

financial year is almost 10,000 K in revenue and 2,000 K plus as profit after tax. So

very similar sizes both companies are >> no but we are more efficient more profitable [laughter]

course of course and and better market cap >> how big is this AI thing

>> I think in our world it's huge >> are you seeing it change already >> change in terms of what

>> like if I am going to MMT's website and looking for a hotel today are people already going to charge GPT and saying

find me the cheapest price on next hotel >> not as much so we let's Hey, we are also on chat GPT. We actually have and they

have a feature called at make my trip. You can bring in your brand and you can have your own native experience. We are

not getting too much traffic uh coming in from there. It's taking time. >> Why would you allow Chad GPT to scrape

your data? Can't you block that? >> Everybody blocks it >> but you end up still doing it

>> on the internet. Uh they end up still doing it. You will you will obviously do whatever you can do to block it but you

don't see what you do end up protecting is deep data deep in the funnel and that you know those layers there can be

multi-layer security that you can build that can do it so superficial if it is it's already even in any case is public

>> so what data matters nickel in this business is not necessarily that super top layer data

>> top layer is price availability >> availability price you know just the description of the product

>> under it >> under it is user related data right the the and traffic and you have like your

customer data >> the the preferences of consumers >> right

>> right right because what let's say nil has been coming to our platform and what has been buying over a period of time

different products let's say if you were buying a product you were taking a you know sort of going with the group you

were buying a homeay or you were buying a hotel which kind of hotel were you buying and even the funnel drop off data

like how much time are you spending are you a looker or are you or are you a booker are you a serious traveler or

high intent traveler or a low intent >> so if you incorporate AI in your company >> that is correct

>> you will not use these LLMs from >> No we will we we will use >> they get that data no

>> no not necessarily not all of it >> I'm asking you won't run an open-source model of your own and try to put your

data in that so it's >> so I'll tell you see right now what we're trying to what we are doing and

it's an evolution you know uh which I believe will happen so early days because these frontier models were very

very strong so you end up using multiple frontier models >> right

>> like cloud and open air >> all of them like Gemini the claude the cursor the uh uh GPT but uh the

grounding of that will happen with our propriety data that data doesn't go anywhere

like user reviews for example that only belongs to us. >> When you say grounding what do you mean?

>> Just to make sure that the accuracy and the relevance of the responses to the customer is far more accurate than

generic. >> After the model generates something you're checking on your end if it's

right. >> That is correct. So our own data is also intelligence.

>> Why don't you run your own model on your own data? you must have >> you could potentially do it right but

it's just a matter of I don't know whether we will sort of evolve into that also or not see right now what is

happening is because of let's say the cost pressure because if you end up continue to continuously keep using u

you know big LLMs then of course the token cost is prohibitive right but then there is now

>> and they might replicate your business model like they're doing in many cases >> you know I'll tell you the reason why I

don't think that replication is so easy in a deep transaction business versus a you know generic search business.

>> Think about Google for example. So Google historically has always been perceived as potential competition

threat also but they could never go deep into the funnel. What I mean by deep into the funnel is

>> but Google never tried. No like if Google >> they they tried but superficially

they've been selling traffic to us right to every online platform >> but only selling traffic. So the

>> but they never tried to build a business online. >> That is what I'm saying. But these

models are >> no models also very different. So think about it like [clears throat]

>> industry anthropic is starting financial services. >> Yeah. But but let's say travel services.

You think about payment page like the you know payment page 20 options with multiple credit card alliances. You will

have to do all of that right. You can't scrape and do it. Yeah. You cannot pick it up from everywhere and say okay

here's the best uh option that and then fulfillment then the after sale experience where would you go you know

you're not going to take customer calls or take customer queries for you to service those customers right that so

that fulfillment and that's true for product commerce also like for Amazon and Flipkart very hard it is not easy to

build that because see that is where the heavy lifting has happened over a period >> flip card tried they bought this company

in travel right >> clear trip Yeah. >> Yeah. But they running clear trip

independently. >> First they were doing Flipkart >> within Flipkart or travel within

Flipkart but then [music] they saw this opportunity dist but that's diversification that's completely

different. >> But you're running it as a vertical OTAA. So AI is more an enabler than a

disruptor of our business because AI will help us streamline a lot of our operations.

I also look at our business as something which is AI proof because with the amount of interaction with

digital media as well as AI and technology that's taking place in people's life, people want something

that feels real. People want real human connections and holidays, especially getaways with your group, gives you an

opportunity to really disconnect from that entire social tech bubble to being in a very real personalized environment.

And you know, it's a favorite hobby for all business leaders to believe and to claim

that their business will not get negatively impacted by AI. and I'll pretend to to to do that as well. But

but yeah, look, I think it is it is of course without without dispute the most powerful technology technology

revolution that we have seen at least in my lifetime and it is evolving at such a rapid pace that I would never say never

in terms of what it can or cannot [music] do going forward. >> It doesn't matter to you now.

>> No, it does matter. I think >> like do you care if your booking is happening via MMT or via charg?

>> No, that doesn't matter as much. But you could use AI sitting on top of your revenue management system to optimize

the level of revenue. That's internally >> not from a sales model of finding the client.

>> No, I think more important is the back of house. So the problem about AI and all these customer data is suppose we

are having coffee like right now but I go off coffee and I start drinking tea no matter which hotel I'll go to they'll

put coffee for you and you know you also get get carried away or you like drinking beer or or gin and suddenly you

switch to something else and then they'll still keep bringing that because that's what the data says

>> the pattern Yes. >> How [snorts] much data do you capture at the hotel?

>> A lot. >> Yeah. >> A lot of data is captured. Yeah.

>> I remember once in this hotel in Paris Nyella Reserve or something like that. It was a nice like boutique hotel. They

would remember what >> reserve is more like the Starbucks coffee thing.

>> Na reserve is this old Napoleon Kagar converted into a hotel or something like that in Paris. It's like a tiny chain.

But they would remember as much as how I had my eggs on my last trip there and what I ate with my eggs and the next

time they would remember and serve me exactly that. Do you think for a hotel business like yours it would make sense

to capture that much data? >> I don't think so. You know that especially for us in India you know the

service is from the heart. That's our Asian hospitality. We should not mechanize it so much and

we have so many cuisines. >> If I have had a dosa for breakfast and maybe I want omelette tomorrow and if I

have a three night stay, maybe the third day I want puri bhaji or something. So it's very different. I think that's the

that's the challenge also to fit that in. If you look at the breakfast buffets in India, they are massive versus

anywhere in the world. anywhere I have not. >> And what all do you capture data wise?

>> We capture you know the customers preferences the way they book from preferences of meals preferences of

uh >> you mean like veg nonveg >> veg nonveg also everything gets captured

in that form >> like if I came to Taj in uh L's end which is right next door and I ordered

biryani 6 months ago if I come back you will know that I ordered biryani 6 months ago. Yes and no. It depends who's

capturing that data. So sometimes you do and sometimes you don't. That is not as I said it's not very processed. It's

from the heart. So if the chef is coming and especially Lens and had this wonderful chef of ours who's now moved

to Mahel Palace in Kaba he will come to you say sir. He has this very special art of doing

it. Then no matter what you wanted to eat, you really actually go with what the chef is recommending you to eat

>> and saying I made specially for you. But that's the very Indian way of hospitality which is great because it

differentiates you from the rest of the world and we should keep that. >> But if you want to incorporate more tech

in hospitality, you'll need to capture more data, right? >> We do. But there are many other uses of

data. For example, today we have 700 getting close to 700 hotels which means at least 500 plus contracts assuming

that some of the contracts are for multi-use properties. How do you get a contract summary? So

you can use a lot of that data AI to generate you know basic contract summary which you can teach your general

managers that how you should study your own contract. >> So I think that that part is very

important. uh as as an example of non-c customerf facing which is internal you know

simplifies your processes there's a professional element in AI that can you know simplify the way you work the way

you capture data from customers and there is a business element in which your speed of getting a job done

improves you know if you're not good at writing English letters you can have chat GPT do it for you so I've seen seen

a lot of our people what happened you know and you can make out actually when the letter comes to you can make out

this is written by Chad GPT or an individual >> they don't appreciate it right when it's

written by >> you have to use still a bit of your own common sense and tweak it a bit so it

looks like your own >> right I was in China and in a lot of hotels I

was seeing these robots >> which were doing service you tried it at Ginger

>> we have one in the Ginger Mumbai report that goes around. >> What is the response to that?

>> It's more like fun. What what I said the fun element but uh does it replace any jobs? The answer is no. Actually, should

we be doing it? My answer would be no. It's not very socially responsible. We have we have

young demographic population uh to our advantage. Mhm. >> So either we get the robos to help

people find jobs or we should not replace human beings with robos. We'll also lose our service. It's okay in the

population is old. There are not people available to serve you know that they >> won't somebody else do it and the

margins will be higher for them. >> No >> cuz you don't have to pay the robot

salary. No. >> Till date it has not happened. is like as much as 1 800 number call this

toll-free number in the US you don't get anything since last 30 years without calling a toll-free number in India it

never happens you know this physical AI interesting you mentioned China and you've done in law so you know US

because he's very bullish about robotic AI as well or physical AI as well see China is showing the scale on that at

least in the manufacturing side and various other places in fact including hotels potentially you know you will

replace kiosks at many places with robots right because you know the the first level of automation was also kiosk

right in the airports you will see chaos >> self-service kiosk right >> and that's one machine getting replaced

by another machine so that could be one of the use cases >> so pun what seems to be happening in

China is that there it is catching up fire literally >> I not just in service there it's

catching on in a bunch of things we went to this company called Sharpa. >> Yeah.

>> Which makes the wrist with 18 joints. >> Yeah. >> It has so much dexterity that it's able

to take a deck of cards, pick one. >> Wow. >> It can play table tennis and beat you.

>> Yeah. I saw I've seen that. >> There was a company which had a automated kitchen

>> like a robot in a 300 ft kitchen >> who's able to start to finish cook everything.

>> Yeah. >> At scale. >> This also brings standardization that is

very hard to bring with a human being. Yeah. >> See, we have our flight kitchen business

which is Tat Sats. Sats is >> of course >> the one that runs a Singapore airport.

Also, >> we have the capability of doing I don't know hundreds of tons of basmati rice

cooked differently with just two people. Everything else is done by the machine including the cleaning of the rice, the

cooking of the rice, getting it packed >> with the cutlery etc. So it depends what job uh that you're trying to do. When I

talk about our sector hospitality, the human hospitality is very difficult to replace by the robots

>> in luxury >> especially in luxury. >> What about ginger and budget?

>> Ginger and all can happen. Yeah, that is not you know that is more cookie cutter. So the very

>> it likely happened. It is happening as we speak. It's happening but definitely not upscale upper upscale in luxury. How

see if you go to a wedding you'll have only robos serving you. That's not going to happen. I'm surprised how much they

spoke about this segment. [laughter] It feels like the whole episode was on this.

Um, look, you know, there is this visual of, of course, a robot delivering stuff in a hotel and moving around a hotel,

which no doubt has caught everyone's, you know, fancy over the last many years, and it is still yet to be fully

rolled out. And I'm sure it'll happen again. It's one of those things where I'm adequately paranoid about what will

or will not happen in the future without pretending to be smart enough to predict that future. Um,

>> but would you bet on >> I I I 100% would look I mean I would always bet with technologies provice is

not against it ever. All that I'm trying to say is the shape and form that it will take for example to even say it'll

be a humanoid which is a very specific term I don't know right I mean um for me any kind of friction I mean I would

assume safely that you know no customer would ever say that okay in the name of a human touch in the name of a great

experience I would want to deal with more humans necessarily at least not in most facets of their hotel experience

right So um so for sure there would be a role for robots to play in let's say I don't know

cleaning the room in bringing stuff to your room um you know in in helping you with check out check-ins checkouts

payments etc. Now what shape and form does that robot take or whether it is even a robot or not is not is not

something I would kind of place a bet on today but I certainly think like you know we have developed for example in

our in Medallio the closest that we could have gotten to the digatra experience in hotels where for sure you

could go check in stay for a few days check out of a hotel without even interacting with with a human um and I'm

sure there will be more of that coming. So I'm not in a position to say the layer above that will be humans or the

layer below will be humans etc. Um it'll be interesting to see how this very intangible soft aspect of human

personality evolves in terms of how they see hotels. You know do they see hotels as as places they stay at maybe in our

segment for sure while they explore the city such that the place should be just super efficient does not matter what

human interactions they have there or not. Maybe the lesser the better versus maybe if they are staying in a luxury

resort somewhere where they would love their pampering, they would love their spy experience, where they would love to

have a butler looking after them all the time and so on. So how that expectation of hotels evolves, you know, we'll see.

It's it's probably part of the evolution of human psyche while traveling. But for sure, I think uh uh I would certainly

bet in favor of eliminating friction and not leaning on the human touch to keep it. [music] I don't think any

customer would welcome that. Say in 5 years from now, how will MMT NHCL change by virtue of a

AI both like physical and digital? >> You can go first. >> I'll tell you. See the

um first the consumerf facing right because um which is over the last 25 years has also been

evolving you know first the device preference changed from desktop browser to mobile app and so on and people got

used and now I think the future is likely to be conversational interface right which is what we have started

building you know with to your earlier question on GPT etc. See one part of the thing is that because we have rich data

you also start building that sort of uh leveraging AI and build that interface because it's conversational. Ironically

and I've started giving this example at many places. Now think about it. The shift

earlier happened from human touch where traditionally people will call the travel agent right because I want to

talk to someone moved from human interaction to self-service. Internet all e-commerce businesses are

self-service. You come on this thing is very convenient. You can choose what you like of your choice and you can do it at

a quick speed right there with a sheer convenience of doing it right. I don't have to just the click of button. I

don't have to interact with anyone and now with AI it is going back to conversation.

>> So, >> so you will build a MMT interface which is voice first

>> already there. >> So, but it's happening. It's happening. So I'll tell you about 80 90,000 daily

conversations happening today. >> Has it gone like massively viral >> and these guys are using what like a

whisper flow is sitting on top of it or is it your >> voice model based on and so a lot of it

is by the way 20 25% in voice and also about 25% traffic is coming from >> you've tied up with a whisper flow or 11

labs or somebody and their voice bot is sitting on top of it. >> That's correct. multiple models used

with our own data and then we have the feature [clears throat] on on myra right so uh now it is giving you an

opportunity to to have a conversation again >> so if we see from in the context of

travel and tourism industry and see the opportunity side of it >> uh because the other very important

point which gets missed out is going to be consumer adoption by the way >> because it takes time you know so and

and we end up sort sort of sometimes um just generalizing for a lack of better word

>> that let's say even for personalization but but tend to sometimes look at you know forget [clears throat] about the

mix of the consumers that you'll have right in a country like India all kind of segments that you'll have you some

will have language preference some will have uh you know will not be as sevy uh of of technology as the others would be

etc etc right so consumer adoption on not withstanding because that's going to be journey in my view but the

opportunity is going to be now think about tier three tier four the gap that we have on internet penetration and

e-commerce penetration today internet penetration is 900 million plus >> you know maybe a billion already and the

online buying is about 250 300 million depending upon which all all told also by by and large

so I think there is a clear opportunity for a discretionary product like ours another 200 million

>> right now they're not necessarily buying online for many reason but one of them is that I have inhibition I have inertia

because of the language and I I'm overwhelmed when I come to the funnel there's too much through to deal with

now I can just go on myra and I start having conversation whether it is Hindi or English or Canada or

>> I think what you're saying and what he's saying is the same thing you're saying that premium will be humanlike like

>> yes >> handmade >> absolutely

>> but everything budget and affordable will become more AI >> I'll tell you what

>> even in premium even in premium >> even in premium I give an example hotel president in Mumbai try that you have a

I mean you're talking to a machine booking a table but you don't get to know till almost the conversation is

going to end it's done very well we are getting more orders and that's where humans get replaced but I doubt if in

the premium You'll have machines coming and serving you or you it opens up.

>> It'll be human with a machine. >> Yeah. Is it will be a human with a machine

>> but services will become more niche like the the difference between a mass premium and a ultra premium will be

completely different where one will require a completely different kind of answer and another will require a

completely different kind of answer. >> Yeah, I think so. And I think maybe we are 5 10 years uh away from that also

happening in India or this big change. But it's like anything >> you know 20 years ago if you went to a

Japanese place and wanted to have a sushi it was already you know something which was rolling out you just pick it

up right what you wanted and then you pay it through the machine or you go and buy any clothes anywhere today in uh any

advanced country you just put them in a thing it automatically gets charged. So all that will happen but

in service sector I think it will take time because you just don't pay for the product you also pay a premium for the

service that you are being provided >> or the human touch. So if Google owned discovery of hotels or flight tickets or

whatever and then MMT came and sat on top of that in the next leg of the cycle with AI

is it MMT on AI or is it something which is AI native? >> No I think it's going to be independent

vertical and solving uh end to end funnel. So let me give you an example.

>> Can't the hotel become that itself? It can do absolutely it's a question of investment can have discovery on AI.

>> It it is a fundamentally it will be a question of core versus non-core and building capabilities and investing

behind it. >> Like if we were talk we were to be talking to like say somebody who's 25

year old looking to start a business in this sector. >> What layer do you think he should focus

on that will get created and what layer will get disrupted? >> It'll be a direct function of what

business model that he wants to have. >> What should he do? Where is the opportunity? Say Google became MMT. MMT

is now becoming a funnel on AI. The hotel itself can be on AI tomorrow where it becomes its own.

>> So in the tech world, let's say the distribution layer, the discovery down to actual booking, which is effectively

the channel, right? Because my view is now the discovery that was not necessarily 100% solved by verticals

like us will also get solved because we will have an opportunity to build the mouth of the funnel directly. Now like

today also we we have 75% of the traffic coming directly on us >> and that comes in with the trust built

over a period of time on the brand. I don't really need to go to Google any any even today right

>> so I don't think Google is solving for 100% of the discovery today >> it's solving for 20% of the discovery

today right so some unique cases or whatever and even Google is getting disrupted because now AI is disrupting

their business first >> right because with the AI overview this legacy SEM SEO is going to go go or go

go go through a change right >> right >> so the the way to think about this will

be let's say if you have make a choice between generic search business with

monetization model coming from traffic >> that I build content it's a content business keep building content right and

you are a very content heavy business powered by AI build all the kind of intelligence to build the relevance for

the customer answer every possible query and then because I have ton of traffic I will monetize that traffic and monetize

of that monetization of that traffic will happen with the businesses only because businesses will come and

advertise on them right or you are thinking about a business vertical a category vertical which is the let's say

travel tech right which is like online distribution or online travel agency as a model

>> so what is the opportunity if you have to summarize I'm asking you as a 25 year old I want to build between these layers

what should I build and which layer I should I not build >> if if you ask me if you look at all the

ecosystem together like on including the supply side the real opportunity is to bring in tech layers on the supply side

the level of digitization >> he's the supply >> yes

>> how do I bring the tech layer on top of supply >> on the like he was alluding to one is

one part of it is revenue management now I sale will be doing it the revenue management because you have to sell the

from a distribution >> is that opportunity or discovery of the hotel is the opportunity paying 12 to

15% over there as margin >> that will be nickel it's a function of economics even today

>> there is every brand will be doing direct right it is a function of two things one is a function of what is your

going to be your cost of customer acquisition doing it directly versus you are doing it with let's say a player

like us right the second is going to be the customer choice because our platform is going to be comprehensive multiple

choices because customer would want to see all the time like selection of uh products before you buy one right so I I

think it's both will coexist. Even today the direct business also happens on on ICL and the distribution business also

happens on and even the offline business believe it or not happens. I have this question for you Bonit

say Zomatoi for restaurants the margins that they charge are so high and you'll have a

view on it because of being on info edge board. I see at some point soon the restaurant himself will want to be

discovered directly and build direct relationships and omit the middleman in a way. At your scale the number of

hotels and rooms you have to service. At what point will you be like okay I'll take my inventory out of all these

discovery sites and manage it myself because at this scale people have to come to me.

So two things first I want to go back to something you asked as a 25 year old >> I would tell the 25 year old there's

enough platforms there are enough people working on AI there's a lot of competitor overcrowding don't go there

start a boutique hotel business or start very nice clean budget hotel business and you will have a lot of success

>> really >> yeah yeah you could do thousands of hotels in India

>> [music] >> I 100% think so. In fact, I would say that advice is

more right today than it would have probably been 11 years ago when we actually started this because the timing

is just so ripe, you know, in terms of where um our income pyramid is, what's

happening to the middle income segment of the country, what's happening to people's aspirations to travel, fueled

by a lot of things, but of course importantly So with their own incomes growing to a level where they can afford

travel and we've seen this in the examples of pretty much all developed countries whether again the usual

suspects of a US a China where when the when the demographic started to reach when the macroeconomy started to reach a

certain level uh it unlocks affordable travel uh because there are just so many more people which create the demand pull

for those kind of uh offerings. So yeah, 100% I think that's the right advice today.

>> So many things that I would want to get built out in this entire ecosystem. Being early movers in this ecosystem

honestly we've had to put in a lot of effort in building each and every layer out just like a flipkart or Amazon when

they started they had to build out every rail in the eco in the e-commerce ecosystem. So whether it's finding good

technicians in locations such as Korg or in Alibag whether it's finding good cooks in these locations whether it's

taking care of the facility management of these villas or even building these villas we've had to find relevant folks

to make this happen. We'd love entrepreneurs who can build entire businesses in each of these verticals.

Whether it's someone who becomes a caterer in Goa or whether it's a caterer in Manali or whether it's an a great

baker who can deliver cakes to us in a location such as UTI. uh so each of these locations I think there's an

opportunity for a lot of entrepreneurs to get created that can deliver services whether it's someone who's delivering

you know hikes uh to take people on hikes in a location such as Casali so what what I'm trying to touch on is that

there are so many different layers that come together or services that come together to give a great experience and

I think for each of them uh we would love to see more and more entrepreneurs come up and build

If you look at uh Motel 1 in Germany, you look at IBIS in France or Formula 1 at you look at

Premier in in UK, you look at uh Travel Lodge in UK, look at Hampton in in in the US and you know country in comfort

in there's so many brands and look at the population of India and the amount of supply we have in this segment. So

they >> but affordability is also lesser. No huh >> the affordability is less but it's

increasing every day. So when you start thinking of it today by the time you build the affordability factor will come

>> like as a sector out of India's GDP let's say the GDP is 4 trillion.

>> Yeah. >> Tourism direct and indirect all of it put together is only about 6% 200

billion which compared to say the west when you're comparing to the US is a significantly smaller number. So that

means it'll only go up right if India is going to be 30 trillion instead of four then if 10% is coming from tourism which

is 3 trillion and 80% of it is domestic that's how it will work >> but if you're growing at 6% or 7%

the number of years of compounding required to get to 30 is by the time the youngster's kids are dead

>> so that is the opportunity because A lot of tourism today is in unorganized sector. So that doesn't get counted.

>> You know your dal lake shikara wallala the rksha wala in you know from the gut to kashiishana temple those people who

are selling stuff to the the tourists coming from Switzerland or Germany or or Scandinavia.

This will get eventually organized and those numbers change. At the moment we are saying six because you are not able

to capture the unorganized number >> like these tourists coming from outside the number for India is 20 million

>> number half >> half of that is NRIs so 10 million is actual foreigners coming into India like

UAE gets 30 million >> Paris gets 25 gets 100 million >> gets 100 but correct but there

[clears throat] is a different reason huh there is that is for a different Infrastructure

>> infrastructure there potential is there [clears throat] no infrastructure improvement is the opportunity area

>> right >> but you know I just wanted to add one variant to what Punit was saying earlier

on that opportunity India is by the way echo [clears throat] short supply market compare it with

anyone like we have whichever report that you see it anywhere between 1.5 to 1.67 67 million rooms. Pick up any like

two big cities will have that kind that that many numbers and Singapore together number of rooms as whole of India.

>> So one one one opportunity that's the one data point. The second one is also the non-standardization

>> when we were talking about it in the beginning let's say before we uh started the opportunity of the midsegment hotels

the one that you were talking about or the one let's say you know Punit was talking about earlier which can give a

better quality experience the opportunity is huge like you know blue motel for example, Bloomchain,

right? It's a good example of that hotel. All what they have tried to do is to reposition that that uh you know,

sort of accommodation differently. You know, >> we did that with Ginger too.

>> Yeah. Ginger. Ginger is >> went from budget to lean luxury. >> Absolutely. Lean luxury. Right. So

that's like a great uh sort of term to put in. Right. So if you look at it from a supply standpoint there is ton of

opportunity because today on season uh you know when you have peak seasons or long weekends you will be short uh on

inventory and therefore people would want to go out one reason. The second one will be because the prices go up

right >> if you're short of inventory like you're saying why is the occupancy not 100%.

Yeah, but because when we look at we measure occupancy and he will be the expert but when we measure occupancy we

look at it 365 days >> you should look at occupancy when it is peak season season people

>> but I can't build a business model based on peak right >> no not necessarily

[music] not and also India is a tropical country there are extreme [music] weather

conditions so when it's very hot people stay inside nobody from outside comes And when it's monsoon, it's monsoon.

There is a certain segment >> which comes to India only in the monsoon especially from the Middle East. They

sit in the hotel rooms and just keep looking at the rains. I mean they are fascinated.

>> But why is this number so low? Like you said infrastructure when we spoke earlier only 10 million for a country

with as much culture and history and culinary stuff. >> You can have the best of the culture in

the world. You can have the best of uh monuments from sun. >> We have 45 UNESCO sites.

>> Yeah. 45 UNESCO sites. But we have to tell the world no we have this. Please come and see.

>> You think it's a marketing problem? >> It's a marketing problem. >> Do you think government is not spending

on marketing? >> I think I it's it has been the case. That's what we have been lobbying for.

>> Yeah, we've been lobbing for see incredible India has not really happened for a while. that you that was the last

campaign but you know even before marketing if you think about it to to my mind that might be relatively the easier

part because if you decide to invest in marketing you'll invest and you will do it no good job of it I think before that

let's talk about these UNESCO sites only on ground experience is the is the issue is that world class right and starting

from literally cha things right you know starting from washrooms the lues the parking facilities the crowd management

the queue management and accessibility >> what happens if the government privatizes all this

>> I think it'll do a world of good and and there are examples >> you guys could run it

>> we do wherever we can we do it as part of CSRs but almost all responsible companies not just us clean their

beaches clean the roads to the monuments um they don't necessarily rely on the So all the beaches you see in Goa where

where there is a Taj they're cleaned by us. >> Let's say

we want to make the number of incoming foreigner tourist go from 10 million to 100 million. Say you were to be the

prime minister of India for 5 years. I'll ask both of you this question. What are three things you would change to

make that happen? Punit is Indian prime minister 5 years. Indian prime minister it can be

construed [laughter] >> but okay hypothetically let's say you're

part of let's say a tourism board uh driving this >> number one is the positioning of the

sector so we have to understand that tourism creates the strength of brand India

across the globe it gives you that soft power of negotiating on anything because people know you and respect you for

everything that you have historically but today they don't know us that way right the second thing it does is helps

you get investment from outside that means if you grant certain status which has been taken away from this sector

like infrastructure status or within the states industry status so that it can compete with other sectors now every

sector might want that but many sectors have it and many don't have it. So if it's a part of your agenda, you have to

[clears throat] do the positioning of of tourism as a infra and as a industry. The

>> okay point is marketing India. >> I'm just going to write it down. Point number one was tourism should get what's

what uh >> infrastructure status. >> Okay. Point number two,

>> which >> which actually basically gets you cheaper loan and longer moratorum

because it's a labor intensive and capital intensive sector. Same I would say 1 A and 1 B is 1 A is infrastructure

and 1 B would be industry status within the states so that your cost of utilities and everything else is not

taxed at the highest level but as per any other commercial building is fine. >> Okay. Next

>> the second is last mile connectivity all these monuments. So we have the beautiful airports

>> uh today thanks to all the spending of the government on highways and trains and airports but the last mile something

is always missing. Right? >> Give me an example. Example is um you know you can u come to a beautiful train

station with the wand bharat but getting out of the platform and to the road and into the taxi is not a seamless

experience as the platform even the platform >> okay

>> so whether it's because of population or it's because of uh education or because of whatever that behavior is I mean

>> if you by the time a flight lands and if it's all economy flight uh the dhakam duka you have to get out and if you're

on an aisle seat the number of rucks sacks that hit you is a you know there are certain things which are a hindrance

to >> aspect how does the government solve that

>> the government cannot solve that that is education that will be a natural transition as the nation grows the

prosperity grows just like airline traffic has grown all this will also grow this is not government uh can't do

that >> you're the prime minister you can change anything you

U uh the other thing I would do is obviously market India the what uh what Rajes said incredible India 3.0 do is

maybe overdue as a campaign whether we call it incredible India or inevitable India or any other name. We need to

market India. Malaysia followed India by doing Malaysia truly Asia and we stopped somewhere. So I think that that could be

a big head. >> Why is the government not marketing India?

Why is I think India is a heterogenous country with so many needs and wants that maybe in the list of priorities

this is not the top priority maybe there are other priorities so where they have done for example

one could argue if I was you said I'm the prime minister right I'm spending all this money on infrastructure

airports trains highways so that we get more people and a better experience Right. So what else you want? You are

the indirect beneficiary uh of infrastructure is always tourism and hospitality. So that's a big benefit

that the last mile which is missing. Um I think the one more thing besides the marketing campaign that can be done is

to have a comparable tax regime which helps you if your airport taxes are the highest if your cost of fuel is the

highest if your GST is the highest if you have taking away input tax credit etc etc then it already you don't have

infra status you don't have industry status then you all these other taxes coming in that is

a hindrance to investment coming into the sector. >> When you say comparable tax regime, what

are you comparing it with? >> You could compare it to when people say why Thailand gets more people, why

Vietnam gets more people, why Singapore gets more people. >> I say to Thailand specifically.

>> So specific to Thailand, they're far lower in, you know, the in the GST equivalent of their country. Visas on

arrival, e visas, how that works. So the ease of ease of travel >> like when I talk to my friends in the US

and UK they say it's really hard to get a Indian visa. Why is that >> I don't know I have not applied for one

[laughter] for a long time. No, but you're right because see I don't think that level of openness there see we used

to have almost like none visa regime and we move to e visa to but very selectively we haven't really see if you

take a step back nickel what has happened is that we have India is an investment destination so India is India

had massive reforms to to showcase India as a [clears throat] as a as a very premium investment destinations for the

businesses and for the investors and we got all the traffic. We didn't have to do anything. We just actually had to do

fundamentally reforms to open up FDI >> and position India as a big consumption story and so on and so forth right three

four big things on macros and we attracted crowd immediately on the back of that right and there the same crowd

has been coming they are not coming as tourists when they come in by the way they go to Agra also

>> but they're not necessarily coming as as tourists right >> and and therefore if You just use the

same analogy. >> What do I need to do is to actually first improve my product.

>> Yeah, >> my product is is below average right now. You know, world benchmark like some

of the the places would be world class. But if I look at it pan India I it is average right? So

>> but there are many other elements in this. I'll give you a story of my own life. I used to go to Goa growing up.

Please try the salad. >> Yeah. And a couple of years ago I moved to Goa. I live there a lot now.

>> You don't see any foreign tourists in Goa at all anymore. They're all talking about Sri Lanka. The few that are there

>> are one year away from going to Sri Lanka. >> Yeah.

>> And it's not just that the infra is not good enough or the taxi lobby it's or the hotels are not good enough. It's not

just that. It's the cultural element of the locals not being welcoming to

>> foreign tourists. It's when they want to have a concert or a show, people come and get in the way saying this is not

our culture. >> Yeah. >> Even that is a problem. Even that is