Path of Exile 1: Ground Loot Improvements, Mirage League, and Endgame Updates

Good day, Exelers. Welcome back. ZD here joined by game director Mark Roberts and game designer Octavian to do our Q&A

post live stream discussion for an hour, 2 hour, 3 hours. We'll see where things [laughter] take us, especially with uh

us discussing things like ground loot, uh endgame, breach, king's march, balance. There's a lot to there's a lot

to cover here. >> I locked in here with you forever, Ziggy.

>> Yeah, [laughter] that's good. Let's do it. And uh well, let's start off by just welcoming Octavian here to the uh the

show for the first time. And uh what brings you here with us today, Octavian? >> Um this guy, I I don't know. [laughter]

He's the one who said I should. Uh no, I mean I've been doing uh a lot. So we'll get into more details later probably,

but uh the the teams between PE1 and PE2 have become a little bit more distinctly split as of late. Um, you know, there's

definitely still some people who jump back and forth, but myself, I work fully on PE1 at the moment. Um, and I've been

doing a lot of the design work on, you know, pretty much everything uh to do with the 328 expansion. You know, I it's

not just me. I'm working with a number of other designers, but I've I've had my my hands on a lot of it.

>> Yeah. I mean, it represents part of Exon like getting the team and resources that it needs to like continue its

development and like put out some spicy expansions every whatever, four months or something you're trying to do now.

So, it's uh it's a pretty exciting thing for, you know, PE1 fans. >> I mean, it's a lot to take on for sure.

Like, and there's been some growing pains. We had our whole like team was split and merge team and now we're kind

of splitting again and we're kind of going all over the place. But honestly, what allowed us to do uh the split this

time is Octavian and Andrew who's not here, but hopefully maybe next time or in the future. We'll we were thinking

might get a bit too cozy on this couch, but um you know, we'll figure that out. But um yeah, with Octavian here, you

know, stepping up and seizing control and having that like X factor design, which is something that um I would say

Jonathan and I have and um you know, pretty much before I was going back and forth on the game so aggressively and I

was just like, "Holy, there's so much context switching going on. I didn't feel like I was giving enough time to

each product." Um you know, because I was so spread too thin, as they say, and all this. And so, um, all of a sudden,

yeah, we're Octavian's, you know, just like, let me do it. And, um, so here's where we are. And, and it's this real

awesome story where now, you know, Path of Exile 1, obviously, you know, you started by Chris, you got Jonathan, you

got Eric, and obviously they started the project, they started Grinding Gear, and they had this, you know, obviously they

hadn't played the game before cuz the game was new, right? And so, they're developing it and, you know, release it

and all this. So now you've got this thing where it's, you know, where Jonathan's obviously still in the

picture. Um, but you got this thing where it's kind of like me with Octavian and Andrew, all three of us coming into

the company as players through QA now getting to this point. And so like I mean a lot of what Octavian's getting is

the story I got. And uh, obviously I'm all for that cuz I got lucky and I'm happy about it and I love my job and um,

so I'm seeing this happen again. It's exciting and yeah, it's just it's bloody cool. While also

>> makes things easier for me, you know, I'm like way less stressed about it. I'm way less spread too thin. I get to

actually focus on the quality and and what we're doing. And I mean, it's just an all round win. And uh yeah, first

time Octavian here doing these. You'll see a lot more of them, I'm sure, unless something goes catastrophically wrong

[laughter] today. >> Good luck. Sure. Sure. I I >> It's awesome.

>> I I'm confident. I'm confident in the content and the expansion. >> No, it's real good. It's awesome. Yeah.

Like for sure. Like for if you're looking at a uh how did I do for my first time kind of thing like I I don't

think it could have gone any better to be honest, you know, and >> Good. It's good. And obviously

>> keen to talk about it and keen to answer all the questions and Yeah. You know, I'm sure hopefully you are too. Yeah.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. Octavian's been super humble and suffering when I've been talking to

like, "Yeah, you're doing a good job. This is this is good content." >> It's a big deal. It's a big deal. It's

huge. >> Yeah. Killing tier 17s. What a champion for players [laughter] everywhere mate.

Good stuff. But I I love that you guys have had that like same journey as well like and uh and Andrew too as well,

right? Like it's players become QA become game like designers become like producers and leads on Path of Exile 1

project now. Like that's it's like the the game is in the hands of the players, right? Like

>> Yeah, kind of. >> Yeah. Yes, I mean I still, you know, play every uh expansion for, you know,

not as much time as I did when I streamed the game for [laughter] a living when I when it was my job to play

it for 8 to 10 hours a day, but I still probably put in an unhealthy amount of time. [laughter]

>> You know, I I work on the game for eight hours and then I go home and play the game for like four and then I maybe eat

something and then go to bed. Um, yeah, [clears throat] it's >> it it it hasn't faded. You know, I had a

lot of people when I first joined the company asking me like, "Do you not play the game anymore? or is it not fun

anymore? Like, do you get sick of it? And no, no, it hasn't has not yet happened.

>> Yeah. >> Fantastic. Well, I'm excited to talk about all the new stuff, but first, I

think we definitely need to talk about ground loot. >> Yeah, the loot. There's not much loot on

the ground down here, is there? >> I don't see anything. Nothing's making it through my filter right now.

[laughter] >> This floor is empty. >> Ground loot is a hot topic discussion

right now and has honestly been for a long time in some iteration or another. I remember like as far back as like I I

was trying to find where for me the idea of where some of these things trace back to and for me it was actually like

legion like farming low tier maps where you're getting that flat additive loot in the map and all of a sudden you're

not caring so much about what the regular monsters drop. You're just doing your tier four glacia to get legion and

stuff like that. >> But this whole this whole thing is definitely like a been a tricky topic to

break down because a lot of people have various different issues. Some people are like blaming lutiles. Other people

like myself for example think liles are great. They're just kind of like indicative of um the difference between

what is dropping from regular monsters in a map and what is being given through what I you know we'll refer to as loot

tiles but is generally like flat additive systems something that adds something a known quantity something

that's going to be you know what you're going to be getting to some extent and uh you know I don't necessarily think I

think those are a great mechanic for various reasons but they don't necessarily scale with difficulty in the

same way as regular content. can uh they don't have as much of that element of surprise and uh I think trying to like

really figure out where a lot of this comes down to like what's the actual issue if you like kind of peek through

the curtains a bit. I think it's just that people are doing getting their loot in ways that feel like it isn't earned.

Like it's too disconnected from the gameplay, right? Like you've either got like non-combat drops being really good,

things like shipments and the auto mappers or loot tiles which have that kind of like pre-ordained feeling. So

that's not as directly correlated with the content you're doing. >> So I'm just curious kind of like how you

guys are feeling about or tracking with that just discussion in overall sense before we dive into some of the

specifics. >> Well, you know, there's a obviously it look item drops are complicated. This

model is complicated. The system is complicated. But and it's easy to get lost in the weeds and all that, but

honestly, I'll just let me simplify it down. Yes, if people don't think it's good enough, it's not good enough. So,

we'll fix it, right? And now, obviously, these things can take time, but I mean, we'll immediately just, you know, just

to get right in there cuz I know what people actually want to know is what are you doing about it? So, let's get to

just to that straight away, which is um [laughter] >> at least for now, given that we have uh

you know, a week till release. That being said, we >> can always make loot better mid league,

right? And that's never a problem. It's taking away this problem. But um >> yeah, look, as I said, if you say it's

not good enough, it's not good enough. That's how it is. That's just the nature. If if the players, and I mean

the the audience at whole is like it sucks, then it sucks, right? So, we'll make it better. So, to start with, uh

you know what we're going to be doing instead of uh there might be some terminology here I need to make sure I

uh acknowledge people don't understand. We will effectively be doubling all the currency

>> and this is number one from from core drops as we call it. Yeah. Yeah. Not windows, not tile loot, you know,

whatever all the terminology is. Um obviously that will then by consequence diminish the rewards from window loot

and tile loot. Yes. Uh that is intentional. >> Just economically speaking you mean like

>> Yes. Correct. Correct. And just proportionately one goes up the other is now less valued proportionately in

theiration and whatnot. >> Um what else are we doing? We're uh we're going to do a bit of a pass on

like memory strands was an attempt to try and get equip. So that's the currency. the equipment memory strains

was an attempt to get equipment drop to be more impactful. >> Um, you know, when you identify, I'd say

that system didn't >> uh it has its purposes, but it didn't land as good as we wanted. So, we're

just reassessing that since we're also making changes to the endame around originator maps and all that. Um, look,

they're going to be better. There'll be more generally more strands. They'll have higher impact. So, identified items

via that means will just be better. Um, we're also trying, we're going to see if we can do it in time to make sure that

it also doesn't just pick bad base types. >> Oh, yeah. That's already been done.

>> Ah, there you go. Sweet. Um, we did a lot of this yesterday. >> So, base type biasing.

>> It has a Yes. So, it still can technically if you, you know, get rather unlucky pick a lower tier base type, but

it's heavily biased towards picking higher tier base types to put the memory strands on.

>> Okay, that's cool. I remember like a long time ago it was not like that was avoided specifically. It was like, oh,

some people might want like a grove bow or something instead. >> Sure. I think at this point, [laughter]

>> whatever. >> Yeah, whatever. >> Deal with it, I guess. Um,

>> greater good is is often the way to look at that. And then, uh, look, we're doing some other things. Um,

>> we're going to have ancient orbs, fracturing orbs added to the core drop pools. Um, you know, which should help a

little bit for that more kind of mid to higher tier currency. >> Um, those are the

>> Yeah, >> we're doing anything else. We're doing a little bit of a rebalancing of of

currency proportions. Um, like, okay, when I say double currency, by the way, I immediately obviously forgot to

mention the important thing. We're not doubling transmutes and orgs. We're doubling the things that matter.

>> Um, true, >> we're doubling the more important currency. We're not like, you're not

just going to get twice as many of the trash. Um, you know, obviously by endgame, you don't need

>> the thousands of them that exist already. So, um, yeah, look, that's the immediate step that we're taking. Um,

>> there's always it's always going to be an ongoing discussion. There's always going to be es and flow to this always,

right? There will be a thing where maybe ground loot is saved and then a year later we'll be having the exact same

discussion with a slightly different twist and that's fine. That's just how it works. Um you might even find 6

months from now or something where people are like bunch of these leagues aren't worth doing because the window

loot happens to to suck from them or something. You know, these are just how these things go. It's a constant back

and forth. It's a constant conversation and um you know the important thing is it's just like there's a problem fix the

problem you know don't freaking and the thing is about it and because item drops is so complicated you what you do find

and you find it internally you get lost in these just crazy philosophical conversations for like hours and hours

and hours and hours of talking about why and why and what did we do in the past that did x y and z and it is important

to discuss those but sometimes it's also important to just bulldozer through and just bulldo through and just start

making changes and start fixing the problem. Um now especially with a week till deployment like we don't want to

sally all the have all the content to be ultimately you know less appreciated because of the fact that you know ground

drops suck which as I said agree. Um so yeah we're doing what we can now we'll hopefully do more later um if that's

what's needed. Um so yeah just keep telling us about it you know what I mean? Um, but for now we're going to

doing a bunch of changes cuz we can this week. We can test them this week. We can make sure that we're happy with them

this week. And if we do anything else, we'll let you know. Um, and then yeah, we'll just keep going. And obviously got

changes to Kings March, which is obviously window loot. You've got changes to uh I mean the new league I

would say is one that more favors uh generally things that aren't in Windows. Um,

>> you know, and and so yeah, we'll see. I don't know. Hopefully that's a good start and we'll see where it ends up. I

guess >> Octavian, you were mentioning to me this idea that like, oh, you know, there's

like a lot of trash, white trash items started dropping. Um, and something about like that kind of effectively

becoming currency was kind of the idea there. >> Um, sort of in a way. Uh, so like when

Mark says doubling the currency that drops, uh, we're not like like there is a total amount of waiting in the drop

pool if that makes sense. And we're not adding more waiting to that drop pool. Instead, we are subtracting it from

places like, you know, normal basic equipment that every single person is hiding on their loot filter. That's now

going that waiting is now going instead towards currency items. And like Mark said, specifically towards currency

items that aren't like transients. >> There's technically not more items on the floor. It's just more of the the

garbage has turned into ideally now mid and higher tier currency. >> Yeah. So like once upon a time we had

this like massive historic quantity rarity buff removal thing that occurred and that some of the numbers on that

were like crazy. He was like, "Oh, this has 1600% increased quantity." So for the skeptics out there, like my father

when I was young, who would say, "I'm doubling your pay this week." Double nothing's nothing. [laughter] Do you

think uh do you think like doubling the currency is something that has like a pretty appreciable impact on like a map

to map basis when like a lot of the time you are kind of just walking out with a couple fragments in a scarab?

>> Uh I mean double is definitely still double. Um, it's a pretty big deal, you know, like economic chang

like 6% glacial hammer buff or whatever's happened historically. um it definitely will make a pretty notable

difference, but um that case there is is also an important one and we we were still actively discussing that yesterday

where we were like there's a little bit of um wanting to make sure there's a minimum

as well um especially with a certain amount of content. Like I appreciate that a lot of people are like, you know,

there's that juice up here and there's that like here's just your base map. And there's a bit of an expectation that,

you know, you should be able to just go in, clear the map, and come out with more. And I

>> generally agree with that. Um, I would say that, you know, the base map is kind of bad right now with respect to some of

that. And so, but again, this is that thing where we've got these things we can do now and quite quickly cuz we know

we understand the ramifications of them way more. Then there's still all these other conversations we need to have

about more like that and how we can achieve that. Um you know there's things about how can we we've always wanted the

idea that um the quality of equipment is dropping better but there's less of it. um how can we achieve that and like it's

quite complicated and quite difficult to do and it has like all these ramifications down the line and it just

goes and goes and and again so uh for right now focus on what we're doing but uh we will 100% be looking at things

like the minimums the base mapping experience versus the giga juice um because the other thing we need to make

sure um we don't do is uh you know often what you can do is you can add something that is more for your average player

doing your average regular map and then that once multiplied by every single league thing ends up being just more and

more for the top end and then it's a bit of a rich get richer situation and you didn't end up necessarily even

benefiting that person. You in fact made them now feel worse from an economic standpoint. Um, so like yeah, you have

that thing where you need to give something there but take away from something here and that can be dangerous

cuz you might you know overcook the nerf, you might overcook the buff, you might undercook on e, you know, it's

scary for sure. So yeah, I mean even yesterday I mean to be fair yesterday I was the one proposing all the craziness.

I'm like whatever it's fine let's just do it. Everyone's like whoa whoa whoa whoa calm down. [laughter]

I was like all right fair enough. I'm calm. I'm calm. We'll do we'll do the safe stuff that we know that's high

impact and going to help people now more than anything and then [laughter] we'll we'll keep looking at this stuff.

So, I would expect more changes. Again, I would depending on what they are mid league. Again, I don't like nerfing

strategies mid league. Like that's a last resort. Um so yeah, if all of a sudden it's like buff and nerf and if we

can be 100% certain it hasn't like screwed over a bunch of people's current economic wealth, um that's good. But um

look, if it isn't solved, then 329 will have more. Um so just make sure you keep letting us know, right? Like that's the

important thing. Like often what happens is like a topic can be um can come up and then be lost cuz other stuff moves

on or whatever. Like it's it's really important that and it's obviously a responsibility on our end to make sure

we go, okay, this is still a problem. It's not like just cuz >> we can check in each Q&A on this one.

It's like a good ongoing one to [laughter] >> review. I think it it'd be good if you

can get like, you know, the for the Arc and Go players like to a situation where they can get two chaos to rub together.

But I think like an interesting situation is that you can kind of stack all of this juicing stuff into juicing

the normal content of a map, the monsters, and you you can't really like scale it or the scaling has not really

any impact on that. It's like something to do with like it might literally be that like double nothing is nothing

situation where you're like, "Oh, well, through all these scarabs and atlas stuff, I've juiced these monsters up

1,800%." But they ultimately still aren't able to drop anything at that point. Now, how do you how do you get

how do you make it able to scale? It feels like actually like a really difficult design problem right now. How

do you get it actually able to scale basic monsters to make them both challenging and rewarding? Cuz like

Afflictions various issues aside, something that was cool about that was that you could scale rare monsters to be

really freaking hard and really rewarding. And that was actually like a cool thing that maybe needs to be in the

game somewhere and maybe the way it was. you you see a lot of this thing with the difficulty scaling um where you get that

exact argument where people I want a way to be able to scale monsters, but then you also have the audience who are like

I want things to be rewarding without needing those scaling mechanisms. Um >> got to have a bit of both. I guess

>> you do need a bit of both. Um it's never going to be perfect. You're always in a kind of gray area and that's where I

talk about the es and flows of just things coming and going and ultimately it's what feels right to as many people

as possible. Um and or there are many options for these things, right? >> I wonder if we just need some like

chunkier options that do just like >> we do 100% monsters just punch a bit harder. Some like big big nodes, big

notables on that. >> Octaven was specifically pushing for this yesterday and we're in agreement.

It's just a matter of coming up with what that is. And >> the the hardest like you know Atlas

passives and scarabs and that kind of thing to design are usually the ones that are the most broad. Um, you know,

like if you're designing for a particular league mechanic or something, you know, what levers and knobs you have

to turn. Um, but if you're designing something for the monsters in the map, that's a little tougher. And that's not

to say there aren't cool designs there. There definitely are. But it is one of those things where like we probably can

come up with a bunch of cool stuff by 329, but probably don't have it. >> This is like another another leading

situation here. But I wonder if there's like a this needs to be keywordified like some sort of like native monsters

keyword. Natural inhabitants is what we currently call them. Yes, >> we do have that as a concept. Yeah, it's

it's not used super frequently, but there's a few places. >> You also then don't want it to be that

then there is a league and the league just feels like absolute trash, you know. So, again, little bit of a fine

balance and because otherwise you're going to start the the E or the flow on the other side and now all of a sudden

it's like h no, there's no point adding any leagues to my area. >> I mean, some of your well-designed

leagues I think can work well with that like the Mirage just as an example for example. 100%.

>> If that was in now, barrage would work really well. It' be duplicating all those scaled up like um naturally

occurring monsters and adding more of them effectively as well, like non like loot tiled but still kind of like

randomized monster stuff which is >> pretty cool. >> Well, as you can see though, also we've

just done a lot of changes especially to existing systems. Like >> we're not uh we're not afraid of I mean

item's a bit more scary cuz you do need to test it. You don't want to mess that up, you know, but we're not and

Octavian's not too afraid, it seems, to be able to suggest the crazy things that we

>> fresh blood, bit of vigor for vigor for change. That's good. >> Yeah, [laughter] sure.

>> I think we just said even to you this morning, it's like Octavian and I were just like talking absolute madness. I

believe I phrased it as [laughter] in terms of doing all these crazy things and like, you know, just tipping things

upside down and like seeing what works, seeing what doesn't. And so, we'll just keep doing it. But um I mean you guys

you're in charge of the game now. >> Now now is the time. I I I really love these conversations in this point

because now is the time when like we don't plan stuff so so far in advance. Hopefully people know that by now. We

stay dynamic. We stay agile with that stuff. And right now is when we're discussing what are we doing for 329?

What are our major headliners? What are our minor headliners? And >> I usually say that start like the week

before this one releases. It's like usually it's like okay what's the next league like?

>> Yeah. And so right now is the thing where we're putting our effectively our list. What are our tier one problems,

our tier 2 problems? What are the things we want to achieve not? And so, you know,

>> the hardest part is I've already got some stuff that I really want to do in 329 that I'm really excited about and I

can't talk to you about it. >> Yes, I know you guys told me something before the Q&A. I'm like, you can't tell

me this right before the Q&A [laughter] and I'm not allowed to talk about it now. I have to like come on, I really

want to bring >> Now you have four months of prep for the next Q&A.

>> Oh yeah, I'm ready. My questions already for that topic, [laughter] but wait a long on that one though.

Something that um on this ground loot topic that I'm kind of have been sad to see fade away to an extent was the loot

conversion mechanic on rare monsters. That was obviously really problematic when it was first implemented cuz it was

associated with arch nemesis monsters and then it had like pinata fishing stuff, but you guys solved that by

making it actually probably random. And then even though it was kind of a loot tile mechanic in the sense that it's

like making a specific drop at it, it's random and it doesn't feel like that at all. So it's

>> I think loot conversion. So, for those who are unfamiliar what I'm talking about, this is uh occasionally rare

masters have like a hidden thing where they will take whatever they were going to drop and they change it into

something else. And that is like fun and weird and surprising and weird and like surprising loot drops.

>> Spike moments. >> Yeah, those are the things you remember like I remember first time I saw like

you know they all got changed into currency or they all got changed into maps or some weird other thing.

>> That was another big topic yesterday is like that because that was another there's so many axes here. Um, but we

were like, we need we need to reinstate spike moments. Moments where you're like, whoa, this is crazy. And that not

just being a divine or having to mouse over every type of a unique office given base type.

>> And um that is what achieved that. I mean, I believe we are um at least we obviously nerfed those. Uh it was a bit

hectic. Um but we're easing back on some of that at least for 050. Uh what the heck? 328. Oh, too. This what I mean.

Too many games. um for 328. Um we're easing back on those uh diminishing return penalties I believe we applied.

Um so okay, you know, at least they'll be more spiky again, but not what they once were. Uh what they were was kind of

a bit out of control. Um that being said, uh it's important that there are those crazy spike moments and if there

aren't enough, like that might not be enough, then we have to um add more. >> It's important that there's a variety of

them, too. uh you know like that's the fundamental challenge of a loot based video game is getting players to you

know care about you know the different pixels on their screen and like this set is more exciting than that set and like

that's [laughter] the trick that as game designers you're trying to play on people and it's it's not an easy trick

to play. >> Um and you know like one small thing like Mark said earlier that we are doing

4 328 is the the ancient orbs and fracturing orbs to the global drop pool because now there's another shiny tank

that might occur in the form of the fracture orb. >> But we want more giga tanks. Yes, we No,

that is certainly not the extent of it. >> You want the thing where there's like 50 tinks overlapping all at the same time

and your sound channels are like I don't know how to deal with this. >> It's like yeah, the unexpected and the

weird. That's the thing that I want to really drive home is I want you guys to come up with like 10 new weird things

that rares can drop cuz it makes rares like matter again. It makes them interesting again. Like I'm excited

about a rare because it could do something I've never seen before. And that

>> that's one of my favorite like >> 10,000 hours or whatever. >> If we design something like that and

it's a success and it's like a meaningful new niche in the game. That was one of my favorite things as a

player, you know, chasing those weird niches to try and find some, you know, strange corner of the economy that I

could leverage >> and I I Yeah, I want to add more of that.

>> Great. Yeah, >> we will. It's on the mind for sure. Hopefully by 329 we've got a good set of

that. >> So potentially some more loot conversion explosions and stuff.

>> These kind of things in the meanwhile, you also then when doing that don't want to then just make the map boss feel

valueless and all that stuff. So, it's a little bit more to make sure we get right.

>> Bosses could be a good place for that sort of thing, honestly. Like the weird jobs like that.

>> In theory, you do it on both. Could be distinct pulls on each. Who knows? Um, but then but then you don't want to

create an environment where you the map boss is only so rewarding that you just run, kill the map boss, and repeat. Or

maybe you do. I don't know. >> Who [laughter] knows? >> Making everything good.

>> That's the goal. [laughter] >> It's all good. We'll get there 100%. I'm like I have no lack of confidence in

that factor. Like for sure. So, so you touched on um King's March. So, there's like King's March is like a big kind of

like grouping of the same issue there where it's like um gambling, the shipments and the mappers and uh those

giving some of the most rewarding loot right now. It's just not from combat gameplay ultimately. And um this was

something I was going to bring up later, but I'll bring up here now. makes sense that um like I think I like King's

March. A lot of people like the King's Mars and stuff like that, but I think over time it's definitely started to

feel more and more like what I was initially concerned about, which is that it be like daily quests, mandatory

chores. Exactly. Yeah. Busy work sort of stuff >> for loot that you're not really earning.

It's disconnected from your gameplay and that. >> I was surprised to think about the crop

and ore change was like it's a pretty subtle thing, but actually sound seems like that might be kind of impacted. Do

you think that's going to make a big difference though? I mean, it does make a big difference. Yes. Because you have

to now engage with the league and be invested in the league in order to now get the the printed currency.

>> Yes. >> Um, so at least there's that. Uh, I understand that's, you know, a bit of a

currency nerf to everyone. But hey, look, it's window loot, so, you know, we're compensating for that in the rest

of the game as well. So, you know, with all the different leagues, >> a lot of people are willing to take.

It's like because I think for King's March especially, it was something there. It's like technically it's

optional. You don't have to do it, but like everyone is. >> Yeah. It's not really It's not really

>> That's what the swap is sort of meant to help address because like Yeah. >> when you could just grow crops with

nothing but money then it it doesn't really feel optional, right? Cuz you're making gold whatever you're doing.

>> So you have gold to give to King's March and they can just turn that into money for you.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. That was a quote that I picked out from somewhere that I found

particularly entertaining or it's like someone's like, "Oh, the the my uh Kings Mappers are getting better currency per

map than I do." So, I give them all my maps and I farm gold for them. [laughter]

I'm like, "Oh, that's just that's just tragic, isn't it? It's not not really where you want to be."

>> So, now what you need to figure out is does the doubling of currency double the King's March Mappers amount of currency?

>> Well, it doesn't currently. >> No, it doesn't. [laughter] >> Well, there there you go. That's

probably uh part of their solution there. just kind of accidentally. >> But um yeah, King's March has a pretty

extreme lovehate relationship going on with everyone. Like there's >> Yeah, I like it. Honestly, I enjoy

logging in and getting my shipments, but it is I do see the you the dark patterns there. The

>> For sure. >> Yeah, for sure. The >> um hopefully these changes help. Um

there's obviously more we can do in due time, but um you know, you also don't want to take away the thing that a lot

of people do like. Um, and that's where maybe making it more of an optional thing instead of the actual fake

optional that it is right now is is honestly the trajectory it needs to go. That way, if you love it, do it. If you

don't, don't. And you don't have to feel so penalized or bad about not having it. Um, you know, that's probably the

direction to really go ultimately um how that will present itself TBD. But we just have to see how these the or crop

change is actually quite a big deal and we'll just have to see how that goes. It's like a It seems like it'll have

surprisingly big impact for just a simple pretty simple thing. It's like, "Oh, should have done this in the first

place." [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> It's funny. It was just a bit backwards, I suppose. And uh I am interested to see how much change the port stuff you've

done is because you've moved around where rewards come from ports, made them more specific because it was pretty

autopilot before. Like I just used the same port again and again. You just dumped all your crops in one port.

Wasn't really much to think about there. But now it seems like you're actually going to maybe be a little bit of

strategy there about where you're sending what. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we'll see how it

plays out. I'm sure players will develop something of a meta. Um, I think one thing that we didn't note as well is

that like in the live stream footage is that the um >> what is it called? The quota. Like the

the the port wants a certain resources that has much more of an impact than it once did on the shipment that you'll

return. And you can also reroll that. >> Yeah. >> It's hard to see like the impact of that

sort of thing. So hopefully it's like something that's like pretty noticeable, I guess.

>> Mhm. I mean, that is a system that was intended to promote that you vary up the different ports you send to.

>> Yeah. >> Um, >> so hopefully that

>> So, like even even if we've shuffled stuff around, you're still going to have, you know, a a non-random meta

generally, right? There'll be a certain port that gives you what you want. >> Um,

>> you know, and there's choice within that and that's great, but yeah, you need a kind of more random and that's what that

system was trying to do. It just wasn't doing it very well. So, you know, make it more impactful and keep doing so if

we need to. vaguely similar to this idea of like uh getting the best loot from non-game play was the

major boss drops coming more from relicary keys than the actual boss and those dropping globally as well. Is that

something you're thinking about at all? >> Feel like a lot of people feel like it circumvents like the you know the point

of the boss and >> it does that a lot. >> It does for sure. Uh we're not doing

anything about that right now that I'm aware of. >> Not in 328 but I actually personally

also share this gripe. Uh, so it is a thing that will be brought up with um, you know, Andrew and the other designers

working on PE1. Um, so yeah, it's >> I also agree I would like it if every Star Forge in the world came from

Killing Shaper. Um, but we'll see whether we get to that reality or not. Like that's something that other people

have strong opinions on as well. I'm not I'm not going to unilaterally say like yes, we're doing this.

>> Yeah. So I is there a reason why like the boss doesn't just drop the keys that give those things or something? Like I

guess they would need a bunch of different keys or something. Might be the issue there. You need like a key of

Shaper or something. >> Yeah, that would necessitate a lot of base items, but that might be fine.

>> We do have a lot of little things like that, don't we? >> We didn't we do that at some point? I

swear. >> I feel like it. >> Don't we have the ringing bells or

something? >> Bosses drop their own keys for their own uniques. Wasn't that the point of that?

>> Just I guess it didn't. >> Am I I could just be tripping. Well, Valdo maps do work differently to the

relic keys in that regard. >> Uh, I need to look into this again cuz I I I was under the impression that we

intended for that to not be the case. Like I thought we had solved this in the past, but like you know, fever dreams

and all that. >> Too many changes. Didn't we solve this like 3 years ago? I'm just like I I I

swear I was surprised when that question was sent to me cuz I was like I thought you guys of continual development. I'm

going to go look at that after this because I am convinced that we I'm like having mega deja vu here. [laughter]

I swear. Um, I thought that we had requery key and then all the boss specific reoquy keys and those gave the

boss uniques and the base one doesn't because we didn't we didn't want them to give the boss

uniques and thus I don't know. >> The question was sent to me by a juicer so I was like I take their word from

that one and say >> I don't know maybe I maybe something slipped up and something went wrong

there. I'm going to go have a look at it after this. I'm cuz like yeah again whatever I'm pretty I'm the deja vu is

real right now but >> it'll be good to reassess the state. I don't trust my short-term memory

anymore, so Oh, that might be longterm memory at this point, but um all good. >> The finalish aspect of ground loot that

I want to touch on uh for today is um rare gear drops that just like ultimately they're just not shown on

filters because they aren't they're either very rarely good or they just aren't even able to be good. Like it's

not even physically possible for them to be competitive in many cases outside of some things like energy shield gear or

suppression gear or whatever. There are some cases where it's like, oh, you know, it can never compete with like um

influence modifiers or other random like where you can jam things together, create this the sort of stuff players

can make via crafting and other systems. Um, so I have a few kind of questions about like that. It's something I've

talked about, man, a few times in the past. Like it's always been a thing like how do we make rares matter? I'm curious

first, why isn't the tier system being used in Path of Exile 1 for rare drops? kind of is

>> the the memory >> memory memory strands are a technically more granular version of that.

>> Okay. >> Um which I I I mean look we've considered

this we've discussed this for sure and this is part of the whole drop less but better. Um it's just it comes with these

so many different consequences that we have to then work our way through and um you know the memory strange was our kind

of way of trying to achieve that and as I said it didn't hit the mark for sure and so we're now trying to make it

better but um uh and I understand that that's like you know they're from originator maps not like gamewide uh

which I don't necessarily mind either that it's like at the end of the end game is when this stuff starts happening

um >> but yeah I And I' I'd first like to see if that can hit the mark first. That

being said, there is like a just going to always be that there are crafting systems and drops at odds with one

another. And you have so many people who are in favor of one versus the other. Um that being said, like

you know, we don't want to also just be like flooding the ground. You know how much people can juice. You don't want to

just be now just flooding the ground with rare items. And it's just like, oh my god, there's just too much stuff

everywhere. And I don't know. I was having a fantasy earlier about this. I was like dreaming about it and

daydreaming about like what would it be like if father one all of a sudden dropped like maybe only a few rares a

map and I was like excited to identify and look at them. >> It's like that would be such a crazy

change from the amount of stuff that drops right now. >> I think that game mode is called

ruthless. [laughter] >> Maybe. >> Whoa man.

Well, it's your first time in the Q&A. Calm down. Why you [laughter] go there? >> No. No. I mean, he's technically right,

but um >> the we can solve that, but the discrepancy

between average map and pinnacle pinnacle, right? We obviously then have to assess like how can you get if you

can get a thousand times more value out of your map, um how do you then not go from three to 3,000 items? And we would

need to address that because like quantity is just quantity right now. So there's a again there's a lot of like

thinking about how that system can translate into that. Um cuz like I mean at that point the entire map would have

to like kind of understand its value of items already dropped and then kind of stop you. There's something kind of a

bit >> weird and complicated about it that I don't quite know how to achieve. tricky

thing to nail down, but I wonder if there is a world in which such a thing is possible. Like just yeah, for rares

to kind of be like I guess rare ultimately, but not to be like not to be ruthless in the sense of being like an

item scarcity situation, but just that like well man, if we're dropping 500 rares, I'm not and we're not looking at

them through the filter, then you know, if if those were rolled into five rares and,

>> you know, 50 times better. One of the things and >> again this is something that was

discussed and not going into 328 because it has a lot of ramifications that we would need to interrogate for 329. Um

but like an extension of the memory strand changes was like well what if we just you know you know how um the the

the drop conversion stuff that you're talking about for rares like what if we do some drop conversion thing where

sometimes rares will drop way fewer rare items but they'll drop super memory strand heavy items and they'll drop a

few of them and like that sort of thing. It is it is definitely on our minds. Um >> I will say one of the things that

contributes to this experience particularly in uh keepers was just the strength of the the breach tree, the

strength of the genesis tree. And while that's being rolled into core, it has been adjusted.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, while those windows are they're

generally going to be showing you just like >> effectively every rare item that's

presented there is many thousands of rare items that are on the ground. >> Yeah. And how is that ever going to

compete as well? Um, so then even >> some of the ground items like that I guess would be how you compete and

that's what I'm >> again there's there's like so many problems to solve here and we'll just

keep working through them. Um it's just again I I cannot stress how complicated all the the item model and everything is

and um you know messing up the economy in any drastic way. Uh be it stuff that we do on accident sometimes um we do try

to avoid it as much as possible. Um and and a lot of these things are really hard to come back from if you mess it

up. if we just make like if everyone's just getting like 95th percentile items off the ground and like the first tier

one map they run, you know, like the entire like get itemization of the end [clears throat] game systems just down

the drain. So like if we >> you know that's an extreme that would assume we mess up bad.

>> But that's what knee-jerk reactions result in. Right. >> I believe in you. I [laughter]

>> you guys have some experience now with the idea of like converting rarity into tearing up an item like making it

better. It's like, you know, as the rare kind of feeds into it, and that aligns nicely with um the idea of this being

something that grows over time with juicing. >> I 100% want to ti and juice it and your

maps got like jumped from, you know, your average 100 rarity to 500 rarity or something. Those items start to become a

fair bit better rather than just being cuz the way it is now effectively is just more white items being converted to

rares, right? And yeah, you get the cool thing with them bosses because they have generally more inherent rarity, drop

better gear and re drop better gear and you know doesn't it's not always better, but like you know the the average is

going to be significantly better and >> uh I love that. I actually really like that and I'd like to do it. Um so

>> okay, that's good to hear. >> We'll just keep trying to get there. Um um so on the issue of like normal rares

not really even being able to compete with like crafted influence recominated stuff like the exile one is it's just

got too much cool stuff now. It's not like you want to remove that. So, so the the question is then like how do you

make rares compete with that stuff? Um, obviously like just having really well rolled stuff can work and maybe only for

specific kind of item categories like energy shield gear and things like that, but um I am a big fan personally of um

things like temple modifiers and stuff like that that are a little bit weirder. Now, that generally belongs in specific

content, but I wonder if there's stuff like that you can do. Obviously, we're talking about the memory strand, kind of

making the base matter, and I quite like overquality items for that point as well. Is this something you're thinking

along these lines of like other things you can do that maybe fit more in general content, maybe just seeding the

idea if nothing else? >> Uh, there is probably stuff it's kind of hard to think of exact things

on the spot. Um, >> it kind of goes back to your previous comment about, you know, trying to make

more Yeah. like more meaningful tinks. I [laughter] guess finding more axes to make gear matter in a way that's

different from a different piece of gear mattering is like one of the most fundamentally difficult things in

designing an item based game, but it is also one of the most important. >> The other thing is to not have dropped

items be unrecognizable as well though. You can't get too crazy with them. >> Yeah. you want them to still feel

relatively fundamental and then you craft all the crazy. >> Um,

>> which are at odds again with one another, right? Those those two things because crazy often can mean power. Um,

>> yeah, like you don't want to just have every item you just have to hover and know what are the eight different things

that could be considered. And I understand that the item filter can can do a lot of that work, but um, you know,

then there are those not using the item filters and not using different types of item filters and now there's just this

insane complicated web that they might have to deal with. So you still want the ground loot to ultimately feel

fundamental, >> recognizable and something not overly complicated and then you know all your

the skill ceiling is what enables the complication of like the knowledge the what uh what leagues am I doing? How am

I interacting with all that? So you it's that real difficult spot where you want to find really interesting stuff but

stuff that's also fundamental and feels core and isn't overly complicated. And that's why it's hard. Um it's really

easy to come up with all kinds of crazy stuff. Uh, >> awesome. [laughter]

>> It's coming up with the simple, more grounded things that are just real tricky for sure. And, um, you know,

>> it's probably why we're here in the first place talking about ground loot because like that is the

>> the more subtle, the trickier thing to get right. Whereas like to do crazy stuff through all the various league

mechanics has been that's what you can let loose. So, those have become better and better over time. It's interesting.

>> Yeah. Well, I'm starting to see now why are we talking about the the new stuff? Like, perfect. I've done my job

excellently. [laughter] I have exhausted the ground loot topic to the point now where chat is starting

to want me to change topics. >> Yeah, we always you always start with the uh I hit the line that I was pushing

for. [laughter] >> Excellent. >> You always start with the

>> you want to start with the thing that people are uh >> feeling%.

>> I can't relax and listen to this other stuff until this is like until I'm reassured a bit.

>> But yes, would love to talk about it. Very excited. >> Absolutely. Excellent. Mirage, the new

league that has been showcased and announced here is a bit of a spicy and interesting one. Iterating upon a lot of

different concepts and ideas here. Uh it seems like the the execution here is really about like a a greater than I

think we've ever seen maybe level of integration with existing content like synergies between content to the point

where like you're actually making it so that other content in this is doing something unique which I don't think

we've ever done before. that that's one of the things that's been most exciting about it to me. Um like just to spoil

one more example I guess that we didn't give in the live stream. Um >> the way that it interacts with delirium

for instance is you can drop a currency which can be used on a cluster jewel to change the enchantment of that cluster

jewel but it doesn't change what's on the cluster jewel. So you can theoretically you can theoretically roll

like a say a shield or a block cluster jewel you can roll a block cluster jewel into x notable that you want. You could

then even fracture it [laughter] and then use the new currency to change it over to being, I don't know, a brand

cluster jewel or something, assuming those are both in the same size cluster jewel.

>> Wild. >> And then you can roll a brand notable along with your block notable or

whatever. >> Wait, wait. Did I miss where you said like, can you do this just once or is it

>> you can keep reusing the currency. >> So you can like add a modifier and then change it to a new one, add a modifier.

I want to modify from these two types and then to end with this type >> if you're the luckiest man on earth.

Yeah. >> Crazy. >> But how cool is that?

>> That is wild. >> I love that. I I'm excited about that. >> And like it's it's cool ideas lately.

>> It's basically like, you know, me and Leighton, one of the other designers, got to just design a whole bunch of, you

know, and wouldn't it be cool if we could go back in time and add this one to this mechanic?

>> Designing crazy is easy. >> No, it's [laughter] not. No, that's underelling it. But um I don't know.

It's that's exciting for sure. >> Yeah, that's that's wicked. So like was this the initial goal on the outside or

is just something happened kind of on accident? this idea of making Mirage really like um interact with and amplify

the existing content in the game. >> Uh the very very initial goal was I like how certain I some of my favorite

designs for League mechanics are like delirium and affliction and stuff like that, even Sentinel to a degree where

it's like it augments content. And I was like, well, what if we could do that >> except it augments the area and not the

league, you know, not like just the monsters. >> And then out of that grew is like

>> Yeah. And then later we, you know, cuz that that is a good base, but you need a good league mechanic needs a bunch of

extra like, you know, bells and whistles, I suppose. >> Yeah. It's always just been kind of

like, oh, it accidentally kind of juices this other mechanic or for whatever reason. So that is uh that's a whole new

level there. Um it was interesting. So I played through like the campaign with this league and it almost felt like some

sort of like best of Path of Exile league. >> [laughter]

>> It's got this like legacy league kind of feel where you're like >> there's just strong boxes and shrines

and legions and stuff everywhere. It's like I feel like I'm playing a juiced endgame version of the campaign more so

than >> the the epic thing of um >> it was a thing where like

>> this is a thing I would say that is like almost a bit um undersold almost where it's like the impact this league has on

the like normally you'd think okay so there's like an extra little bit of mud flats with some monsters like as a

second replicated area. It's like I don't really care about that. But then you're like, "Yeah, but what if when the

Mirage is spawned, we also then ensure there's other bonus content that's currently endgame only generally or like

Mayhem League, you know, kind of stuff." Not that we do that much of that anymore. Yeah. And then all of a sudden

now you've got all this content appearing in the campaign and it's like there's just so much stuff going on and

I actually think it's >> I mean I like if you want to just get to endame, go to endgame. It's still your

choice. You don't have to. But for those actually wanting to engage with the league in the campaign, um it's probably

one of the most like interactive ones and it's probably adds the most amount of content out of any maybe that we've

done before. >> In addition to that, they fall away at the end game cuz they're not really

powerful enough to be competitive with the endgame juicing wishes and that sort of thing. But they'll, you know, give

you a binding orb or two on completing like the very like act one or act two. There's very early ones that can give

you that. There's ones that give you like a whole bunch of chromatic orbs. is ones that give you, you know, a unique

weapon or something like that, you know, things that are really useful in the campaign. Even later in the campaign,

there's one that will give you a five link. >> Um, and then those will fall away as you

get to the to the end game. So, when they're when they're not nearly as relevant.

>> Yeah, it's um normally I like always interact with the league mechanic, even if I'm getting overleveled. This is one

where I think like it's to the point it's it's juice to the point where you like do the really cool looking ones and

that's this is my advice. do the really cool looking mirages that have like a bunch of extra mechanics with it and

leave the other ones, you know, just like you you'll be able to take it or leave it here. Even if you're a player

who normally does them all or >> check the mechanics, check the wish. >> Do it or move on.

>> Yeah. Also, the wishes sometimes are unique and >> uh a detail that I wanted to make sure

was known is um so the mirage in the in the I call it the overworld and the recreate. Those are the internal terms

we've been using. Okay. >> Uh but the the the mirage around the object in the initial area, not the one

that you've recreated. uh does have a lot of extra, you know, monsters from the Alpharude, as Mark was saying in the

live stream. Those monsters are purely additive. Um so they don't they don't displace existing monsters or anything

like that, which does mean that even if you never enter a Mirage, you're just kind of killing more stuff in the

campaign than you would otherwise. Like >> Yeah. Yeah. Just extra monsters. Probably how you were so overleveled.

>> Yeah, true. [laughter] >> Yeah, I think I was like 10 15 levels over pretty consistently since like

hacked one. It's been like, "Oh man, I better skip over a few zones." And then I'm like, "Oh, that Mirage looks pretty

tempting." >> There's a Yeah, there's [clears throat] a bunch of kind of cool stuff as well,

like I know you mentioned as well the other day of um you know, >> the way the Mirage's area is generated.

>> Um like it >> it when you have a circle, you got a circle, right? And so in claustrophobic

maps, a lot of that circle is an unwalkable space. The way that the area of Mirage generates is it flood fills

walkable space until it occupies an amount of space which means on a map by map basis it's relatively consistent.

>> I noticed that you solved that issue. I was like you guys have done it. >> Our our our programmers put a lot of

work into that. [laughter] They did a good job. >> But even then you've got um now you can

immediately think of that and go well hold on. If I'm in like say toxic sewer and it flood fills I'm I'm going to be

so far away from the portal. Well there's just a button to take you back to the start of it.

>> Yeah. you guys are getting good at this. [laughter] You're anticipating my quality of life complaints.

>> It's got fancy effects when it teleports you. >> Normally, like in the past, I'd come

here and I'd play for a bit. I was like, you guys need to make a quality of life for this. And then like, no, you guys

have done it already. >> Part of doing quality of life changes, even though sometimes they're insane and

sometimes, you know, not as crazy, you know. um by doing it in every patch and holding us accountable, ourselves

accountable to doing it, we then off and get like, well, hold on, what would we be doing next week for the new content?

And >> you've rewired your thinking, I think, on this. So, I feel like I've noticed

that at least last that you that mandate to like do 10 quality of life fixes. I think

>> another really for them now. >> Another really minor thing is the mini map in a mirage area is always fully

revealed so you know where you need to go. >> I didn't even notice, but that's

awesome. It's just like little things like that. It is a um actual uh >> uh terrain generation recreate so to

speak. So um you know >> it you wouldn't get lost either way I

suspect if you were kind of remembering what happened anyway but you know >> my memory maybe

>> bit of a boss it's true we're talking about not having short-term memory so who knows anymore nowadays. It's a it's

a it's a funly weird funnly funly weird mechanic in the campaign too because like quite often you're like it spawns

near the boss, you do the boss in the mirage, you pick up the quest item from the boss in the mirage and you're like

>> I'll just go. [laughter] >> A lot of that suspiciously just kind of worked.

>> Yeah, just made me feel really really suspicious like there's there's surely there's some bug we're overlooking here

but it's been you know pretty pretty thoroughly tested at this point. It just kind of works. I've intentionally I've

I've been intentionally trying to like be like, "Oh, what if I do it this way?" Being like a little cheeky like, "Oh,

yeah, what if I kill Pod in here and get the thing?" >> I [laughter] mean, it has had some bugs,

don't get me wrong. Like, there was a there was a bug where like you you know, if the Mirage didn't generate far

enough, you could click an entrance that's supposed to take you to somewhere else and now you're just outside the

Mirage and you can't move. And that's not particularly good. >> I haven't run into any of those things

yet. So, you've been polishing out pretty well. Higher level of polish uh a week out than usually. on this visit