Exploring Design and Cultural Identity in Dune Part Two

did you ride the worm the tree I did I did this in real life and in movies we can pick up so many clues about how

people live how they think what matters to them by the kind of material culture that they have around them if you want

to take something like the F and tent you know what is that what's the materiality of that like the Aron are

really what goes into a septic tanks hello I'm Paula Benson founder and editor of film and furniture today on

the film and Furniture podcast we explore the design and spaces of June 2 director Deni V nerve's epic follow up

to the first part of the June series with the film's production designer Patrice veret and set decorator Shane VI

join us as we explore how the spaces homes and objects of the different cultures and houses in June Express

their identities so Patrice you have worked on June one as well as part two and also on

arrival and prisoners and other projects with Deni vilner so you have a long history can you tell us about that I

knew that Deni uh had Dune Dune for him was the the the best you know science fiction you know book that rock his

world in the uh when he was a teenager so when he approached me to do the first adaptation part one I was like first of

all I I fell off my seat and I said are you are you insane you you you you first of all I know that the fan following of

the of dun but also I know how important that book is for you so with the KN as always we think we think the same design

is cannot happen cannot be designed for design it needs to have a reason because design educates us to or educates the

audience of where these people come from you know their culture uh their economics um and design should also

reflect the environment in which you know the the these areas or these structures these buildings exist so it's

always a responsibly environment you know Patrice is definitely the overseer of everything when it comes to the

design of the film you know when we started there was a 270 page book a look book and we never deviated from that the

whole film there were no changes that's what it was that's what you did and so for me it's really about the

interpretations of the builds how do you add texture how do you enhance that how do you sort of make that work and So

within that you work with patries to sort of figure out the materiality you know everything is just perfection

really every tiny thing has been thought about so yeah so talking about identities and how spaces reflect

identities but also how in you know in real life and in movies we can pick up so many clues about how people live how

they think what matters to them by the kind of material culture that they have around them so it'd be great to explore

these maybe three different aspects of of June 2 and how we really understand what matters to these people so starting

um with the freman on araus they're obviously living in really harsh conditions I mean press set decorator so

60% of the film is in the desert how does The Decorator respond to that so everything in their life is extremely

utilitarian and has purpose there's not really much as far as what you would call decoration involved in what they do

everything that they have seres as a purpose for their existence and their living and the materiality of that you

know there was a lot of conversations between Patrice and I about the materiality of things and how do we

blend those in How would they make things for Arcus uh it was for part one it was a response to the to the uh to to

a multiple type of things the environment you need to build everything at an angle you know to survive the for

the buildings to to survive the winds that go at 850 km an hour you'd also try to find as much humidity uh as possible

so you'd build these walls super thick try to avoid direct contact with sunlight again and um so that's that's

how we we we we started and we imagined the femin to be a culture that was always struggling not just with the with

a colonial entity that would you know steal uh the natural resource exploit the natural resources from from their

Planet but they they also had to survive under like extreme condition of heat so we were imagining you know the

at the beginning okay the the desert could be similar to Ocean maybe they want go to from point A to point B the

direct line is the most dangerous line so they would travel Island to Island in a to avoid being in the open sea as much

as possible so all of that you know uh take into consideration so on part two on part one we we we started developing

our our language for for those worlds for the world of uh for the world of kaladan which was we had something very

romantic that we that that we liked it we we we we we felt that kaladan was very Canadian somehow it's like a Nordic

Canadian mixed with um the colors of fall the fug the wind crashing on the on on the Rocks those those greens and

yellows all the all the other rooms were were were were smaller know in height uh it had wood carvings because it's

surrounded by forests and uh and then when we go to to to arak on arus the world of polar Tres

becomes bigger so the scale becomes he's so small because his he's he's he's a small thing small person in that world

that has just grown bigger for him you know he doesn't even understand you know what's what's ahead of him and he's his

character is struggling with with with his identity and and and who he is what he could be we always put ourselves in

the okay if if I was a Fran okay if I was a haran if I was an artres and one thing that is uh that was interesting on

on on part two is that we were able to develop those world the world of Getty Prime which we had just barely touched

on part one the world of the fman you know and show who they are their identity how they live you know their

culture through ART furniture and and design of the the architecture and seeing the sand seeping in through the

showing their struggle their everyday struggle so talking about identities and spaces reflect identities but also how

you know in real life and in movies we can pick up so many clues about how people live how they think what matters

to them by the kind of material culture that they have around them if you want to take something like the F intense you

know what is that what's the materiality of that is it a worm skin how do they build that into the things that they do

it looks very simple on film but you know something like that tent took six to eight months to develop you

know it it is the fabric alone I had a company in New Zealand called the textile Collective which was a group of

12 women that all have different skill sets to work with fabrics and you know that fabric alone is a five to seven ply

fabric which was heavily heavily designed you know laser cut leather to Silk that's silk screened then it's all

plied together with an acetate and that it has to have a hardening agent to give it its concave shape and you know these

parameters the den and uh Patrice set with that just really make you want to perform and it gives you something to do

that has never been seen before yeah and I guess um you know obviously living in caves how do you make a cave a

interesting for the viewer um but we noticed all these little details of little inscriptions and all sorts of

things going on not just a it's not just a carved Rock I was imagining if they they they would try to write their

stories you know just like Egyptians or they they would try to in case someday they disappear archaeologists of

the future would come and and say okay these people it's a way to say we exist we were there um and this is our story

and the same thing goes for the cave of birds that the cave of birds is basically the the cave where they

Retreat after the aronin attack and but on this one the motif on on on the walls is is fingerprints you know

because that's another sense of identity it's it's Unique to every individual and and it's to and it's just

in case you know they disappear because for any reason whether it's the it's the archness of the it's the sand seeping

and just they just disappear just vanish but at least they leave uh their legacy they leave a proof of their existence

gives me sh was down the spine really because it's it's about sort of marking territory in the most meaningful way and

you know in the way that cave dwellers did probably not sure how long they'd be there or how long they'd exist which is

how the fman live yeah absolutely they they they never it's a constant battle it's an A and they just want to say we

we we exist we existed or yeah and preserving their stories their stories are in every set that you go into it's

all there and it's uh it's subtle uh but very beautiful the shape of the T is based on on on the Cockroaches

cockroaches they they survive everything even the nuclear explosion so all and it's also perfect for the wind you know

it's like the the wind sweeps over it so it's always like a response to the environment to what they're going

through yeah a real harmony with nature a lesson for all of us I guess and then we must talk about the sandworm ride one

of the most epic scenes ever in film let's face it um so how how did you go about creating production design set

decoration for that well that's that's Dan his best you know like we we all add our idea of what the sandw ride uh would

be like Paul's first uh sandworm ride and then one day around a big Table conference table we're all like is in

these meeting in in these movie I think one of the best moments is when we all think you know we all have the

the the basic visuals but then we are called for methodology meeting the f one of the first one we had was about the

worm writing scene and we saw like Denny's genius Denise's unique take on and we were like we had all our big eyes

and we were like okay how do we do that so for us it was it was a basically we did the a like a 80 foot worm skin which

uh a worm skin is basically there's two things that are that inspired the the the texture the design of that is is a

dry lake with all the scales you know a dry lake also the bark of a tree so and then we discussing with the

with with Denny like but when when they pull like what would what would make the worm because of that size and what would

those you know how so we de oh maybe they they should have some breathing you know so underneath the scale when when

when the the harpooner grabs it so that that so that the wind goes in and the sand goes into the to the breathing

devices that they have and it's like the worm goes tries to and that's how how that's how they can you can steer the

the worm we had two different rigs for that one was a vertical rig which was a uh the 80ft uh worm skin by by by 20 ft

wide uh leaning uh on a side of a sound stage and uh that would like give like just sometimes like fluctuate or or make

it at a steeper angle and then uh we also had another one another one of those uh um worm skin uh on a gimbal

motion base and that was horizontal but it could like go like this you know turn so did you ride the worm the tree I did

I did this playing like a child which which is which we all are actually because when when we do those movies we

all back in our seveny old you know State and then obviously when they travel together besides the first warm

warm ring then when they travel together and the the pal and Quinn was also something that Shane Shane brought the

on the table how does Jessica you know like travels on those because she's a she's now a a a um Reverend mother so

and she's pregnant so how do they take care care of her figuring out like yeah how do they get they get on the winds on

those things 60 80 kilometers an hour you've got sand flying everywhere how do you keep those shelters in that pacquin

stay in place it is definitely a lot of trial and error but when that thing is going it is absolutely beautiful to

watch yeah it's epic epic one of the most memorable scenes in film let's f it so how do you go about like

choosing San Junes for June I mean obviously shot in Jordan and Abu Dhabi I mean did you just kind of like look at

masses of bits of desert we we did you know like uh in Abu Dhabi it's crazy they they they they we built two back

Lots in the in the looking straight South so so we would have like e East South and West like we could look like

180 degrees and throughout the day we could change you know with the the direction of the Sun the Shadows but the

the the sand dunes uh the specific sand sandunes that was a that was a bit of a search it looks

ridiculous but the wind sculpts the sandunes so in the morning you know they're lit a certain way and they and

and and the flat you know the way they're shaped you can you need to find like a double for the afternoon as well

and and and it was a bit of a search because the wind doesn't necessarily you know it's not the next necessarily the

Doom next to to that first Doom that's going to match for the afternoon the book The Art and Soul of June part two

is another gateway to immerse yourself in the world of dny Ville nerv's June part 2 movie and discover the incredible

creative Journey that brought this new installment to the big screen it's written by June executive producer

tanela Point who by the way is a big fan of film and Furniture's Instagram so this book together with many other books

on film and design is available from our Marketplace at film and furniture.com it's so obvious now you've

said it but it didn't even occur to me that this whole landscape is changing every 5 minutes you're shooting in a

place that's never the same from one minute to the next when you look at the storyboards my first impression was like

okay it's going to maybe take three four different locations it took 12 in three different countries to make it because

that's the thing you know with with Deni when he arrives with his story boards it's like okay let's let's let's do this

it's so exciting it's it's like okay but to this then you start realizing okay there's an issue there that we need to

think about so it's like it's an ongoing process but it's always sted the the goal is to to to to realize to to to

make these these story boards come to life you know so just before we move on to other cultures and other identities

there's um the scene where we're still still in the desert where you know they they discover the Arsenal the hidden uh

Arsenal that's been there for so long um and there's this amazing scene where we go inside and they you them have to

really help yeah the light the small uh the small glow Globe yeah I tell us okay so this thank you for asking that

question um because that's that's something that actually shows how we all work together it's funny because that

that uh that set I had the and imagined it while waiting at an airport and then coming back to Budapest you know like I

I was I started focusing on how that thing is is lit is it going to be natural lighting coming from the Sid or

from the or is it like total darkness because and then and then and then we thought like we're discussing with Denny

okay it should be like a a light that goes like a small light that goes like and I said how can we make that light

more interesting what if it was just like slits a bit like this the the the a lot in a lot of sets the light is just

like light slits coming from the from the ceiling or the sides so I had these two versions I had the soft version of

the but of the the light the small GL Globe traveling and the other one which which had the the the the slits of

Lights it it's just so architectural the way it has the shards of light and the way it captures the sort of angles of

that of the as you walk as you walk in it's incredible absolutely love that light so moving on to a very different

world the world of the haran the giddy Prime it's so the contrast is incredible right so it's very industrial it's very

brutal it's very dark it's quite glossy in places and then you you shift the camera you know suddenly goes to black

and white I read it was INF fored I'd love you to talk more about that but the world that you created here I I read

something about thetic tanks absolutely and know it's super funny but then always thought of that that world of

black plastic molded like black molded plastic and there was an epiphany that that happened to me I was driving around

there was this field filled with septic tanks black plastic molded septic tanks and it looked like Getty Prime and I was

like this this is a a great start I think it's a it's a it's a great start to to and start playing with those

shapes those curved shapes and the the little shine that it has on the on the edge on the curved Edge

edges and so yeah so so the design uh obviously it's not like septic tank septic tanks but it's based on uh those

different models of septic tanks that you can that you can find and then creating rooms you know uh the different

rooms whether it's the whether it's the baron you know room where where he takes a bath which is basically based on a on

a on um you know the float in in the in in the toilet bank with you know the the thing that the

yeah so so so it's like I had a little I had a play because also like the aronin are really what goes into a septic Banks

the undulations the black curves is a repeating theme in their world so it it it's in the buildings it's in the bath

it's in um this chair when they walk into the arena the Gladiator Arena so Shane with the with things like the the

bath and the chair where he's carried in is is that something that you Des well you know Patrice is definitely the

overseer of everything when it comes to the design of the film So within that you work with Patrice to sort of figure

out the materiality what works best on the throne and you know with that Throne there was the breathing apparatus of the

baron that was completely a physical effect that was not the effects it completely did what it did and it was

such a beautiful thing to see it was only supposed to be seen once or twice but we ended up seeing that thing a lot

and it really really worked but what's great about most of these worlds is that the parameters of what you do are very

narrow with respect to color it's how you inflect texture and highlighting of color within that it's a real different

way of thinking but this film is a perfect reflection of how to do that when we were talking about those those

the breathing apparatus and and the and the floating Throne of the of the baron like we we thought about okay well and

you are ask we should of course every element should be should be at a at at its own you know

levitation and the solution was to put that on uh three different cranes yeah they they moved all differently and guy

was able to interpret and make that happen like he the guy was phenomenal and to be able to make all of that a

practical effect to feed him this itself yeah and I guess you know in the way that there no such thing as black there

are a billion hundred different types of black so I mean I guess you had to test lots of different types of color and

texture and gloss and matte and absolutely and you know what with the um with the uh uh infrared black and white

um because that's some that's something that Denny had had imagined that he always wanted like the black son of of

uh of Getty Prime would suck up all the colors so it would give like a black and white feeling and and Greg fre said well

maybe it could be like infrared infr the infrared camera created some amazing effects especially for the eyes but it

also created some headaches for uh not for us but for costumes and and and makeup because the thing that we found

is that Jack would bring like black fabric with a veil and it would turn white some of the fabric that was black

stayed black the Gladiator Arena why triangular why not uh because no because it's like okay it could be Circle it

could be and but I think a triangle gives a good opportunity for every spectator to uh to see the what's going

on properly I think it's I think it's a good shape for for it it's different know that's that that's the reason and

also incredibly official I mean it's a very stunning unexpected shape in the middle of the film there and then um I

think there's one of the Coliseum in Rome was built um a very particular oval I believe oval yeah yeah absolutely yeah

so you could see the fight from most angles yeah no exactly and it's funny because when we're designing we were

putting in the model we're putting okay does that person see how does that person see how does that person see

what's the point of view between the benzar and the and the tower uh where the um where the the the the baron is

know so it's a it's it's a good view from all around another very different world um the Imperial world and I hadn't

realized this till um I was doing some research before talking to you that this is a real place by caros Scara could you

talk to us about this yes caros Scara uh for me is has always been an architect that I admired his work and on part two

on part one sorry he was uh he was essential in into my is is Aesthetics or stuck in my in in my brain and uh highly

influential on the design of both kaladan and arakan all the steps all the the way

that that he that he that he the volumes that he uses the and when on part two we uh there was a scene in The Gardens of

the of of um of kiten the Imperial Planet I said I suggested to den a couple of of of gardens around the

around the world where we could shoot and I said it would be great because it's pretty close you know from Budapest

where we're based uh the uh the commune of ativo Northern Italy in in in Venetia

and um it would be great to pay tribute to the person or the architect who influenced the world of Doom part one as

the Romans you know it's the Imperial Planet so I thought it would be good thing to start you know to to have the

planet you know the gardens in a in a in in in in C's Masterpiece and this is where you know

this is where the the original is so that's what the the train of thought we learned that nobody had ever shot there

then there was no permission for for filming there before so they they approached it and when they they learn

it was it was doomed they asked to to to to me to meet me and to be honest it's the first time I ever cried what walking

onto a location it's so perfect it's so the intricate details it's like it's it looks like brutalism but it's not really

it's really caros scapa's world so we shot inside U the Chapel of the bond and that's where Shane I'll let you uh talk

about the how you uh you augmented the the uh the that that space but we also shot in the garden there's a perola

there it was a moment I will always remember for the it's incredible because um it doesn't ground Us in any world

that we're familiar with or any time right because there's influences from from Venice believe you studied in

Venice there's there's a bit of you know like kaboer and modernism in there and then and then there's a Japan reference

as well like these kind of black grid screams absolutely so it doesn't so it's kind of like it's not a familiar world

really so an an an incredibly beautiful world and there's this scene obviously where you know Florence Pew character is

is sitting uh write you know narrating writing her notes on this machine she's sitting on this chair which sort reminds

me a little bit of a batti with this beautiful gold cabinet behind her and this just tell me all about that scene

please you know it definitely was an homage to Italian design and those pieces with the you know they are

definitely an homage to Bugatti but they were all handmade uh leather inlay and beautiful copper pounding and really

great gold detail all painted in and they were all purposely built for that and you know it was only four or five

pieces of furniture and that's all you needed for the room just the beauty and simplicity and then this machine that's

sort of um taking what do we what is it called that's taking notes that she's dictating a Shiga is this a real thing

or did you invent this no it's it's a real thing from the Dune universe that uh that's in the in the in the book it

records you know like uh the voice and it engraves on a on on a cylinder which hearkens back to pneumatic devices early

on when they did record because they would record into the wax which basically what the sh wire does so it

was a very very simple machine but it absolutely beautiful so I haven't studied the details but it it that's a

whole language as well that's been developed yes Absolut alphabet absolutely yes all of it there's like

the aronin language there's the the kitan language alphabet there's the shaba uh for the freman and there's the

ures they all have their own own language and and and this skaka um building um I understand was created by

the Brion Vega family so the Bon family who Bon beger who created all these incredible highi and stereo and Cube

radios in the 60s which I love anyway I mean I just the connection just blew my mind I know it's

it's a that's a total coincidence that it's a that's the Bon and that we had the Sha wire there but uh yeah

absolutely but I I I encourage everybody anybody who's going in that region of of Italy to visit that Cemetery it's it's

just beautiful and it's full of symbolism um there's the the constellation of Vega it's it's it's

just extraordinary that cemetery is so simplicit small but there's so much within it it really is one of the

wonders of the world it is so beautifully built and it stands the test of time and it is still to this day one

of the most beautiful pieces of architecture I've ever seen so are you inside Messiah yet my God I

could tell you no I could tell you yes but I can't tell you anything you can't okay what we go right if you if no but

but eventually I think I think I think there will be a movie I don't I don't know when yeah of course it's happening

so if you had to take one piece home from the set for your own home what would it be please Shane oh

you know that's such a great question but for me it's the flag the iconic flag uh the IRA it was a symbol of Freedom it

was a symbol of fighting and it is one of the most beautiful things ever built it looked so gorgeous in the film and I

absolutely loved it the flag yeah amazing choice and Patrice the breathing at Paradise it's just beautiful guys

congratulations on such an epic I mean it it really I hate that word epic right it's so cheesy and so nasty but there is

no other word to describe the incredible work that you did on this fil I mean it's extraordinary and the intelligence

and the thinking and the detail and the big big Big Sky Thinking is is next level thank you for sharing uh your

extreme nerdiness with another nerd thank you for having us on your show you have an amazing amazing uh show

and we appreciate you having us I hope you enjoyed that insightful chat you can take a look at our in-depth feature as

well with lots of film set images at film and furniture.com where you'll find many fascinating articles on Interiors

furniture decor and Lighting in film as well as where to find these items for your own home that's all in our

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