Download Subtitles for Jeffrey Dahmer Defense Closing Argument Video

[Music] har har Court Frank 33 walk count is no extion La gr presiding silence is commanded jurors at the beginning of the trial we gave the lawyers an opportunity to speak to you making an opening statement where they presented you with an outline of what they thought the evidence would show now we've heard all the testimony in the case and the lawyers again will have a chance to speak to you make a closing statement or sometimes it's called a fi final argument which they will argue to you what they feel indeed the evidence in this case is proved now we followed a certain order throughout the trial which is a little different than what we usually have and that is the uh defend ad goes first and then followed by the state State uh we continue to follow that order so Mr Bole has the opportunity of making the first closing statement please CL M and staff my staff and Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury um we had at the close of business yesterday agreed to some time constraints as to how long we would take as an ultimate I pledge to you that I will not speak one minute longer than I feel I have to I ask you to give to me as I know you will for the next 45 to 50 minutes your undivided attention there's a lot of distractions in the courtroom and there's a lot of reasons to we look away that doesn't mean you're not listening I understand that but the next um exercise that I do in this courtroom has the um impr Mater it is the most important thing that's going to happen in many of our Lives see we all we all do things as they affect us we make decisions about ourselves sometimes as parents or spouses we help make decisions on others sometimes we make decisions where our kids go to school what kind of car they drive when they can go out but rarely rarely if ever do we ever make decisions that affect another human being's life and we're about to do that but I'm not going to do that you are cuz I'm finished I had a lot of things that I wanted to do at the start of this case and I think every one of them has been achieved I have a concept of the system of justice that may be different than other lawyers but I find myself serving a lot of different roles first of all every lawyer is an officer of the court and that means at all times he must respect and honor that court whether he agrees with the judge or doesn't agree with the judge it's like in the military you respect the uniform not necessarily A person wearing it in the system of justice you respect the court and that's because that's the only way the system can function the other goal that I feel as a lawyer is as an advocate of my client's cause not because it's something that I'm paid to do or hired to do it's because I've taken an oath to do it it's that simple it's my oath it's my my life to be an advocate for my client's cause and that doesn't mean to make up a cause that means to take a cause and to allow 12 people to make a decision on whether or not I did what I was supposed to do in a court of law so therefore even though my primary function as an advocate of my client and as an officer of the court I serve another role and my other role is to help you do the toughest thing that you're ever going to do in your life and that is to make a tough decision and if I don't do that then I'm not doing my job for anyone and this is not to patronize this is not to get into some good graces with you this is just a fact Jeffrey dmer is here having pled guilty to 15 murders Jeffrey dmer is here because certain doctors indicated that he was insane at the time he committed the offenses now we're going to use a lot of words we're going to use a lot of words because a lot of the words say the same thing but we know what the definition of insanity is in the state of Wisconsin and you probably can recite it as well as any lawyer who's ever studied law and that is whether or not a person at a given moment in time was suffering from a mental disease and as a result of that mental disease that person lack substantial cap capacity to conform his conduct to requirements of law or appreciate the wrongfulness of his conduct now the reason for that is clear because some people can conform but can't appreciate and some people can't appreciate but maybe can't conform there is no wrongfulness of the conduct issue here it has been admitted it has been not fought it has been accepted that I have not been able to sustain my burden of proof from the moment this trial started on the question of whether or not he appreciated right from wrong he did so I'm here to talk to you about whether or not this mental disease that we have proferred was met to a reasonable degree of certainty by the greater weight of the credible evidence and if I have shown that and I don't mean I like I'm on ego trip my job is if I have achieved that then the next question is as as a result of that mental disease did he lack substantial capacity to conform his conduct to the requirements of Law and I submit to you that's the only question that you're going to have to wrestle with because the mental disease was proven to a reasonable certainty by the greater weight of the credible evidence so in preparing myself for what I was going to do here today I have made a lot of decisions one of which is I'm not going to bore you to death by telling you 10,000 times from Sunday what you already know secondly I'm going to try and focus on Jeffrey dmer as a human being not for sympathy he deserves absolutely no sympathy unless he was mentally ill none but if he was a product of a mental disease then he deserves sympathy in the same way that a person who has a physical problem or disease deserves sympathy but this is not a case of sympathy this is a case of fact and I have accepted that burden to prove to you that he was mentally diseased the definition in the jury instructions is not something that was just made up this is a group of the greatest Minds in the state that said in our state in all of the courts and in the court of appeals and the Supreme Court we accept a person as being mental diseased when he has an impairment of the Mind whether enduring or transitory that affects his mental and emotional processes and if you say you know what he was mentally diseased and you agree to that by the numbers that you have to pursuant to law then you go into the question of the Conformity so because I'm not going to stress a lot of facts it's because I don't think they need to be stressed except hopefully as I've done it to a you you we have all taken Oaths I asked the question in Vader we are all exactly the same as we stand here today having taken a salomo to see that the ends of Justice are done and none of us will violate that that I'm certain of none of us are going to say I'm going to make my decision on the basis of what's going to be perceived later I am so convinced that it is that is we are able in this country of ours to get jurors to call it the way they see it because when you take the oath that's what you say you're going to do and you're putting all things in consideration you know we got a lot of alicart Americans in this country they they they want to rewrite the Constitution they really want to rewrite the Declaration of Independence they want to tell you what well in this kind of a case forget Justice come on he killed all these people forget it it's all over with he doesn't deserve the time of day an i for an ey a tooth for a tooth they're boat people that's what they are they should get on boats and get out of here and go live in a country where that kind of stuff goes on doesn't go on in America because we live in a country where we all are entitled to Liberty and Justice and Justice is met by your verdict not by what I think not by what Mr M thinks not by what these seven doctors think or the judge thinks it's what you think that's what Justice is and whichever way you call it it's justice as long as we subscribe to the oath that we took now the reason I say seven doctors is because I believe that you have heard from such star professionals each and every one of these men and one woman that came in here to talk to you put their whole person on the line to do what because they wanted to volunteer to come in on this big serial murder case nonsense you see Justice in finite terms is decided by judges and courts and juries Justice in the infinite term is decided by our maker our creator and we subscribe to the Christian judeo philosophy which says that every human being will be judged someday and those of us who run from our responsibilities are not going to be judged too well I don't know how badly but my responsibility the day I said I'm your lawyer was to be his lawyer just as M Mr mccan who I have the greatest to respect for says that as the sworn advocate of the people I'm I'm going to prove your wrong boil that you didn't prove it and you folks will be the ones who make the decision Milwaukee and the harm that has been caused to these 17 people 15 of whom died in this city has been such a reprehensible concept that it appears as though it's Milwaukee is now a laughable Place nonsense we have spotlighted Milwaukee as the best place to get the fairest trial we have cleanse that image and your verdict will do it no matter what your verdict is you didn't have any poppycock professionals coming in here with poppycock ideas you had great people whose lives are either devoted to treating people who are sick or to try and helping other people understand what that sickness means so we stand here proud forgetting the tragedy that has happened in order to make sure that Milwaukee is a place where Justice is meet it out whatever your verdict is and that will be achieved and that I'm not concerned about and if anyone in the world suggest that for one moment I don't really mean it when I say I feel Sympathy for the victims and the families of the victims then I don't have to listen to anybody who would make that statement because I do Mr dmer plad guilty he talked to the police for 60 hours to cleanse himself in the way he thought he could for all of the harm and all of the evil that he has done he doesn't deserve credit for that except it's a fact what more more could he have done after his arrest so that's a part of the past we look to the present and the present is whether or not he was mentally ill his family has been harmed anyone who knew him has been harmed people who came across him have been harmed policemen have been harmed probation officers been harmed everybody's been harmed because he was able to fool him he had a paraphilia that he didn't choose that he discovered how many times if I read a reoccurring intense sexual urges and sexually arousing fantasies that marketly the stress someone who acts on them how would you like at the age of of 15 to wake up and start thinking I'm having fantasies about making love to dead bodies what kind of person would ever wish that on any human being and who do you tell it to do you tell it to your mother do you tell it to your father who do you tell it to your best friend I want to talk if I can about us as people there are some who say upon the moment of conception everything is pretty predictable if there was artists in your background you might be an artist if you were big into music if somebody in your background if your parents or Grandparents were great athletes you might be a great ad so at the moment of conception we become something and then then we look at the person as they go along and choices are made all kinds of choices are made some people go into drink some people go into cocaine some people go and become uh uh professionals some become doctors some become teachers some become movie stars we all become something and we look at our lives and we say what do we look like out there put the tentacles out and what are we so in order to show you what happened to him not at the moment of conception but what he involved to be I have tried in order to keep this thing to some kind of a logical explanation drawn up the Jeffrey dmer human being and this is what I see about this Jeffrey dmer as a total human being a person who's in a fantasy drugging keeping skulls and Locker cannibalism sexual urges drilling making zombies necrophilia disorders paraphilia watching videos getting excited about eggshells drinking alcohol all the time into a dysfunctional family trying to create a shrine showering with corpses going into the occult having delusions chanting and rocking picking up Road skill having obsessions murders lobotomies de blessing masturbating four three four times a day two three times a day as youngster going and trying to get a mannequin home so he can play sex with a mannequin masturbating in the open parts of a human being's body calling Taxi G going to graveyards going to funeral homes wearing yellow contacts posing people who are dead that he killed for pictures masturbating all over the place this is Jeffrey Don my little star my little circle would say lawyer father sport happy I have only positives there isn't a positive thing on this this is a young man who never had a relationship with another man on a friendly basis for a day time this is a boy who at the age of 15 or 16 found himself sick and if it's so simplistic that too bad so bad he could have done something about it it's his own fault so anything that happened after that is his own fault then we're not talking about Justice then we're talking about a lot of other things we're talking about just neglecting the realities of life but if we look at a guy who's sick and say just how bad was that sickness then we're doing Justice to the question whatever the result of the question is so in order to give you hopefully some idea of just how bad this sickness was the two charts that I showed yesterday where I have put down the names of the unfortunate victims of this steamrolling killing machine start basically with Mr Hicks in 1978 at 18 years of age who would have predicted that this man would have killed a human being kept his body kept his skull opened up his body and done the sexual things that he did kept it there for 2 years to have returned then to take it out to smash it up and give who would have predicted that who could have predicted that at the young age that he was when he started into this fantasy business that that would have happened when he was 18 no one and you know from 1978 through 1987 this paraphilic Jeffrey dmer didn't kill again he drank alcohol I don't know how you wouldn't have to having done what you did to Mr Hicks how you wouldn't have some something that you had to do to get that out of your mind oh it didn't surprise me that it became alcoholic I don't know how you can get up every day and think about that for nine years having killed the human being I don't know if you've ever dreamt about hurting anybody I've had those dreams and I wake up in the morning and the first thing I do is I thank my God that it was only a dream because the depression connected with that dream is so severe that it's dysfunctional Until you realize oh thank God that was just a dream this wasn't a dream this wasn't a dream this was a sick boy right here plenty sick and anybody who said just mean or evil is trying to tell you something that can't be sold this is sick we get him back in 1987 and what he tried to do but like what many of us do we make a mistake of trying to heal ourselves I'm going to get into religion can you believe that all of a sudden somebody's going to get into religion that never was brought up in religion it didn't work he was living with his grandmother he was desolately lonely he was all alone in the world and he was trying because that's what he wanted to do he wanted to try and he failed you know I don't know why I always go back to alcoholism and anorexia and bulimia and and things of that nature because it's the only thing that I can even relate to I've never I've never met anybody who told me that I have these real fantasies about doing this to somebody I'd walk away from a person that said that so I don't know how this paraphilic business works and that's why I had the likes of Dr Berlin and Dr Becker to give you an idea cuz none of us can possibly have gotten anywhere near to the fantasy level that this kid was at when he was 14 or 15 years of age in my lifetime I can't even Envision allowing my mind to get to the point where I would think about having sex with a dead person an unconscious person and he's got that at 14 and 15 and he's masturbating two or three times a day and Dr de says that's normal behavior and I submit to you it isn't I submit to you that you see if you're an alcoholic and you drink too much you're going to die that's what's going to happen to you you're going to drink yourself into the grave if you're taking narcotics too much you're going to have an overdose and you're going to die if you become Bic or anorexic and you continue you're going to die but when your mind is in the gutter it stays in the gutter and it never gets out of the gutter until something changes it it's an insatiable appetite filth is an insatiable appetite there's no end to it and that's the living proof right there there's no end to it until you destroy everything that is right in life you destroy destroy yourself you destroy other people that's what happened here an insatiable appetite he had to do what he did because he couldn't stop it this isn't a matter of choice not when this pattern is here for these years so in order to get away from it he started doing all these great things that made a lot of sense right video stores peep shows I'm going to stop it I'm going to get some sex I'm going to stop this fantasy this recurrent urge that is marketly distressing me of having sex with dead people I'm going to stop it because what I'm going to do is start hanging around gay gay clubs it wasn't working and each and every time he progressed to be worse and worse and worse okay I'm going to go get a mannequin that's going to end it that didn't work that foolish okay I'm going to get a grave I'm going to go to find somebody I really want I'm going to get them so don't end up hitting anybody I'm going to bring a body home to my house and that'll be the end of the problem for me it didn't work can you imagine what it would be like to even think about doing something like that and what that would do to your mind so now what we have is we have a Jeffrey dmer in 1987 who's been going around really doing some great things to help him out of this problem like drugging people will help me get out of this I can do my thing to them and it'll be fine and that'll be the end of it and it didn't work now do we say well tough blck dmer you were doing it it didn't work so what well that's all been taken care of he pled guilty to all that question is now what was his headl you know I I I see every once in a while I go to the malls you usually see them at the malls or at the Brewer games these poor people who are in wheelchairs total paraplegic quadriplegics youngsters and I don't care how tough you are I don't care how hard your heart is you have sympathy you have sympathy because you know their life is hell every function they do somebody's got to do for them and the caring loving people that help those people are Saints people who pick them up and help them go to the bathroom people pick them up and put them to bed at night people clean them and bathe them are Saints because those people are helpless I would rather be that for life than dmer with these thoughts for one day because there isn't anybody to help dmer until there is some tragedy and the tragedy was when he was arrested it ended all his self-help was for not and it's so easy for us to say too bad still bad but then we have to say is that what we agreed to do just say too bad so bad or do we have to say let's find out boil if you proved it to us so in order to try and suggest to you that I did what I have done was to make up a little chart of the doct I have to put it up here so hopefully you can see we had the following people tell us the pleet Berlin Becker walstrom poo Freedman fale and be that's what we've had here we've had Tracy Edwards we've had some co-workers we had some other police here to talk about what they thought about his mental condition but basically this is what it boils down to Tracy Edwards in my opinion is very important and I'm going to get to him but here you got we sticking with this guy for 60 hours so when we start talking about how much time you spent how much time you spent big deal it's not important to me what's important to me is the projection that these people have in common or opposed to each other relative to the time that they spent the police spent 60 hours with them most Cooperative gave us stuff that we would never have known about answered all of our questions gentle cordial totally Cooperative talk without his lawyer being there don't want his lawyer here I want to talk I want to help identify these people salving unsolvable crimes how did he act to you he look like he was delusional sick no not at all of course he didn't because he wasn't acting on his paraphilia when he was talking to them he wasn't that way with any of these people the reason these people are in here is to help you and then what the do we find Berlin necrophilia paraphilia not otherwise specified mental disease mental illness Becker necrophilia not otherwise specified paraphilia mentally ill walstrom necrophilia paraphilia not otherwise specified and psychotic The psychosis poal nothing wrong with them nothing knew that in three four hours he says Freedman mentally diseased had an impairment of the mind his analysis of his personality disorders and the totality of what he said was he was under Wisconsin law Mally disease Dr Fel paraphilia not otherwise specified mental disease Dr deep i' sto the man was so impressive that I wanted to pitch my tent and go home until I started finding out cross-examination that I think he said that he doesn't know whether he was mentally diseased the jury is the one who supposed to answer that and I agree with that but I was getting the idea what he was saying was if it's only a paraphilia forget it no disease never happened nobody can ever convince me of that I've held through to that since 1985 my colleagues have try to concoct kind of stories convin me differently no way Jose if it's paraphilia he's not mentally disease doctor was he suffering from an impairment of the mind that affected his emotional well alcohol might have contributed I don't know what he said but I don't care because if these are the two forensic psychologists in a psychiatrist in the world then who's right because I've got mental disease mental disease mental disease mental disease mental disease now you are going to be told that you make the decision on who you want to give the weight to and what experts in V dear I asked you a question if you were on trial would you want you making the call about you do you consider yourself to be so fair and objective that you as a model person is the kind of person that you would want judging you and you all said yes and I agreed with that because I know one thing other than the fact of my advocacy I would really like a guy like me making judgments about me because I would be able to say I'm right sometimes I'm wrong sometimes and when I'm wrong I know I'm wrong and when I'm right I think I'm right and sometimes I absolutely know I'm right but when we get people who tell us absolutely no way in the world can a paraphilia standing Al be mentally diseased and I haven't treated one in many many many years I have to say I think this guy's got a mindset I don't think I would agree with him because it doesn't seem to me like he was ever going to come up with anything other than his mindset since 1985 he's been saying no way a paraphilia can ever be mentally diseased mentally ill and even my colleagues and this is all on a record I read it to him have tried to convince me otherwise but they haven't been successful and still to his great credit very professional witness told a remarkable uh not story he he was remarkable in his in his way he was able to tell us every single thing that was said between the party well I didn't add I mean I I don't think reporting that is really the crucial issue here I think it's the substance of what someone said and I'm not going to knock Dr D because I think the man's a star testified in the John Hinckley case for the government I don't know what that means but he did what it means is that the man works works to be a forensic psychiatrist that's his life just like mine appears to be to be a criminal lawyer that doesn't make me one dog wi smarter than anyone else it's a substance that accounts not the form it doesn't matter whether he was paid $39,000 or $350 as far as I'm concern you read into that anything you want to but I will tell you that the man is a person who testifies for law enforcement and the people and the state that's his that's what he does everything about him is I'm on the opposite side now he can tell me once in a while he comes on the defense side but I asked him doctor if I thought that my client had a paraphilia would I call you I'd be wasting my time because of his mindset Dr fosil did a very thorough examination but he was convinced that Jeffrey dmer was not a true par true necrophiliac so he was asking him to diagnose himself and what he concluded was that whatever he was when he was doing what he was doing he was mentally ill he was suffering from a mental disease but he could still stop and I say to you thank you doctor because you're giving us something that we didn't necessarily have to have from you his cander about that in my opinion raised him to a very very high level because I knew coming in here 3 weeks ago I wasn't going to change one person's opinion they weren't going to change my people's I wasn't going to change the court I wasn't going to change their people it's just was a given so what we did in the exercise of what we did is to ask you how much you want to rely upon whom knowing that I have the burden to prove they don't have to prove anything or disprove anything and I accepted that but Dr Fel said mentally disease so jury in effect concentrate if you believe me on the question Conformity and I think he can conform and what Conformity means is as I view it you know we get these words substantial capacity to conform your conduct the requirements of law These are nice words but they're tough to understand I think the question is without more could he have stopped one day he wakes up and says boy that's it I've stopped the alcoholic who wakes up and says I'm an alcoholic I've had my last drink the young girl suffering from those Insidious sicknesses of bulimia get up in the morning and say that's it it's all over with I'm going to get well now that I'm going to happen here his willpower was gone and I submit to you my definition which is only mine that he was so impaired as he went along this Killing Spree that he could not stop he was a runaway train on a track of Madness picking up steam all the time on and on and on and it was only going to stop when he hit a concrete barrier or he hit another train and he hit it thanks be to God when Tracy Edwards got the hell out of that R thanks be to God that this magnet stop so I want to award these people here by saying in my humble opinion they were all great all of whether he spent 4 hours or 2 hours or 50 hours or a th000 hours these people came in here armed with sufficient information to help you make the decision you've got to make and my hats off to all of them whether they agreed with me or disagree with me Dr poo who came in here was so candid you wanted to embrace them I knew in 3 hours there was nothing wrong with them but Dr Berlin says I know in three hours I had Mr siki on my hand what's the distinction in kind they're in here to render opinion because a doctor comes and sits down whether he's being paid on an hourly basis or a straight basis and spends 5 hours or 150 hours is that what we're supposed to do you know what's the function of a lawyer in a courtroom try and fool juries uh ladies and gentlemen jury my doctors were the greatest cuz they spent $ 600 hours doesn't mean a thing and I wouldn't do that and I'm not suggesting they did that I'm just suggesting that argument makes no sense to me at all because I want to tell you something in my opinion if I have a son and he's starting to show what this guy was showing at 15 and 16 and I sent him to a doctor and the doctor calls me up on the phone and says his two or three times a day masturbation that's in a normal range his thinking about uh having make in love with the this thing that's not something that you have to be concerned about he'll outgrow that it'll stop I'm getting a different doctor this kid was plenty sick and Dr Becker said at that stage in her life his life when he started opening up dead dogs that he found on the highway bringing him home and opening them up and looking at him that come to me he would have been in a hospital oh what's they send him in the hospital for he's sick what's the matter with somebody that would do that I mean you know what we we when we're driving our cars are so turned off by the sight of a dead animal on the highway that we move our car around so we don't get anywhere near it even our car we don't want to take some something like that he's bringing it home this isn't a sick kid is it and where is he going to get the help now the reason I emphasize that is because my belief is that the Apple pip the wanting of something so continues and over a period of time that whatever you try to do it may not work now I have to go back to this silly analogy of alcohol because I don't know how else to explain it I'm only going to drink honey on weekends I'll only drink when we go on vacations and I'll never drink during the day or I'm not an alcoholic I don't drink in the morning I don't take a drink at noon all of us have seen or been touched by or have witnessed that and there's a person who's talking about their problem to somebody who's he going to talk to about his problem so you know what happens he threw in the top he just became helpless in his own mind I'm no good I'm rotten I'm evil and all of that being put together I still want to fulfill these desires and I'm going to go do it and I submit to you that at some juncture along this killing spree I proved again an I but not an i i by to a reasonable certainty if not absolute certainty at some juncture not perhaps an early one but at some juncture one would have to be blinded not to accept the fact that he was so out of control that he couldn't conform his conduct any longer to the requirements of law at some Junction and I think what I have to do if in the interest of being straightforward is to tell you that in my opinion that started showing itself not right after Tumi when Mr docket started getting sicker with Mr Guerrero when we get to Mr Sears we got ourselves a very very sick un controllable young man now I have listed their names here and when they have died and this is like hopefully an understanding that these young men died because of a crazy man not an evil man but in order to hopefully show you my belief and as to when this sickness started getting so bad I would like to have shown you this little chart of me everything seemed not so abnormal until 15 or 16 he was just a kid D's mother put the head to his heart he had a little brother there was nobody in the home it wasn't a lot of fun I I tell you I I grew up with six in my family it was a ball it was World War III every day but it was a ball we played together we fought together we we had a lot of fun together this guy had nobody from birth except As Told to you by the doctors one would have to say on balance was he an active youngster a semi-active youngster an inactive youngster a lonely youngster a desperately lonely youngster you make your own choices I don't think his childhood was something that we would have prayed any of us for ourselves or for anyone we're raised but nothing so far out of line did some things with tadpoles did some things with fishes started showing a little bit of an interest but now he starts in the fantasies this is when we've got ourselves In Harm's Way with the head of Jeffrey dmer this is when his mind is really starting to go he starts mastbating fantasizing thinking planning can you imagine can you imagine at 17 years of age put yourself in the head of a 17-year-old boy saying I see this jogger running down the street or the highway and I want to go up and hit him on the head and drag them in and have sex with them can you imagine having that desire and that thought how sad and how sick he killed at 18 he kills an 18 and then he desecrates this body by ejaculating now what would have told anyone that this kid up to this age would have ever done anything like that he's starting to get sick and what he does then from 18 to 27 he tried it his own way and it doesn't stop stop the paraphilia the fantasy is there and it's growing by Leaps and Bounds and he kills at The Ambassador Hotel and he doesn't even know that he killed somebody until he wakes up and sees him think about that think about the reality of the having that done by you so he starts saying what am I going to do and he makes plans see what I keep on hearing is if you make plans or if you think Argo you're not mentally diseased well that's nonsense there isn't a person in the world that can can say that that rids one self of the question of whether someone is mentally diseased the anorexic the bulimic the alcoholic who's got alcohol dependency so bad that he's able to go to work is L really diseased of course they're diseased but they're thinking they're planning they're trying to correct the problem so he takes the young man home to his grandmother's and we know what he did and he kept the skull this is sick and then he kills twice more at his grandmother's then he gets caught he does something and he gets caught with that youngster SS he doesn't kill him told the police he wasn't planning killing him everything he did with SS indicated that although bad he wasn't about to kill but it doesn't really matter because his sickness is well in place here's when he starts really getting out of line here's when he starts really getting nutsy here's when he starts really losing it as he is waiting to go to wherever he kills again and saves a head and takes it to his place of work because when he's in the house of correction where he can't do his killings any longer because he doesn't have a safe place he still got the remembrance of this paraphilic disorder the skull of a human being in in a locker can you believe that can you believe that any human being in the world would say that the guy that did that isn't mentally impaired he's just evil no had the mental impairment whether we like it or not so now he gets out of this prison jail situation he's in and he starts up again and if you see hopefully as I go through this as quickly as I can you're going to see how he starts doing different things now he's wants to be a part of the Jedi and he starts thinking about his Temple that's going to give him this power so he's going to start collecting things to help him with this table of altar this Shrine that's going to give him this power and he starts now taking pictures and keeping skeletons of his of his victims and then they now he starts taking pictures and keeping frozen body parts now he starts eating the body parts why is he doing that if he's just evil you think that all he wanted was to kill he's starting to experiment more and more because his paraphilia is getting greater and greater and then he starts going down he starts taking pictures but now he's into the viscera now that's not enough he's got to have more well people say come on stop it Jeff don't do that anymore okay I won't I've got it now I've got it under control this is when he said he felt total depravity this is when he knew that he was so bad he never said you know this is when I knew I really had a mental illness he never used the word mental ill 60 hours talking to the police never developed hallucination never developed a delusion never said I was was really sick I mean my mind was gone on me you know what he said now I was totally evil totally depraved totally out of control he didn't even know that he was mentally ill he just thought he was bad he didn't invent an hallucination the devil made me do it these people forced me to do it he said I have no one to blame but myself I had to total depravity only wanted my own selfish gratification it was a lot more than that he was nuts now he starts doing the formah high he wants to keep the hands the genitals he's into exus 3 and now he says you know what I am I'm Satan I'm Satan not Satan forced me to do it I'm Satan that's how bad I am now he starts homemade labotomy trying to keep skin what about that doctor him homade L well it could work you know it could have worked yeah I mean if I said to you you know and I want to make this sure that I'm not making light of any of this if I told you that I have a pet at home that's a that's uh out in the fard and I really want to bring it in but I I got to make sure it doesn't make noises that I don't like so I'm going to bring it in and and do a little work on its head to try and see if I can't pierce the head and knock out the noise that that the animal makes whether it be Baba or an oink or whatever because I want it to be more like a dog and I want in a house you got to say God get that guy some help for Christ's sake come wrong this man a KN he's a fruit cake doctor say well you know he wanted a sex slave zombie one would have been dead the minute he saw zombie to because his paraphilia was in such control of him forget about the Conformity right now his paraphilia was in such control of him that he could not just leave it as it was he had to have more and more and more here we have number 10 and I'm not calling these number 10 because I'm showing any disrespect for these folks as persons I've listed all of their names I pray for their soul so don't let anybody misunderstand when I say that I'm showing a progression of what's happening in a series of chronologies not depersonalizing these poor folks by calling them numbers number 10 victim he left laying in a bed for two days in a small apartment how about that doctor well it was catching up on him now he was too tired he couldn't get rid of the body I I I don't agree with that so I asked the the doctors about Conor system and I said how about that one do deeps he says I think that showed guts just a lot of guts well let me tell you what bothers me about that you know I don't think Dr Deets can be the star of the north on this one if he had guts and he had his brain power intact and he was able to conform and he knew everything that was going on about him how many body parts would have been in that apartment the next day how many skulls would have been left how about the barrel with skons in them and the freezer and the refrigerator a guy with guts would have clean that stuff out immediately so that if they did come back he'd say you know he must have wandered out like he did the night before when I was sleeping I don't know where he is come look around my apartment it's clean as a whist there's nothing here that's what a guy with guts in mind would have done but not the paraphilic who can't conform his conduct to the requirements of law because he couldn't let him go in spite of the fact that he had a cop at his elbow and he went on and killed four more times this wasn't a guy displaying guts this was a crazy man who couldn't stop until he was stopped he started saving his guns and freezers three Milwaukee policemen are in his apartment firefighter to him naked boy on the street citizens viewing him an Asian boy a minority of minorities Dr de says he could conform his conduct to the requirements of law just showed he had a lot of guts he knew how to control his environment true I submit to you this time he's so out of control that there's no way he can conform his contct to requirement before the early part I can't stand before you said I proved it absolutely I am not certain if I proved it to a certainty by the greater weight but I submit to you when he's on his way to jail and he kills that poor Anthony Sears so that he can have his head in a locker while he's at work he's out of control not somebody who's just fulfilling their own selfish desires that can quit anytime they want the hell of a thing to have to ask you to even think about In Your Wildest Dreams you couldn't write this script it wouldn't be possible it would be so unbelievable and whoever read it would say Well it all time he could have stopped he could have conformed versus I don't think so there is a time when this guy let go to the point where he just lost it and they say alcohol the bad you know there's an awful lot of people in this world that have alcohol problems and we don't see that kind of happening I think it's clear to me that when a doctor tells you that he's an alcoholic it's clear that he's an alcoholic but his alcohol is or his use of alcohol isn't causing him to kill these people his paraphilia is causing him to kill these people his alcohol lowers his ambition inhibitions I asked the doctor about what Dr Resnik the nationally known person says alcohol is used to K what difference does it make doctor that he drank would they not have occurred had he not ever had a drink of alcohol not one doctor said they wouldn't have happened if he didn't have alcohol and if they did I think we'd all laugh him out of the courtroom weren't alcoholic killing these are the killings of an insane human being who couldn't stop killing because of a sickness that he discovered not chose discovered when he was 15 and it never ever stopped growing and the little futile attempts to make it stop growing by Jeffrey dmer just didn't cut it he is taking showers with two dead bodies in the head that have been in there with bleach and disinfectant he could said Gee this is this is too much now I I'm getting tired of doing this this is too much work I got I got to find a I'm going to go back to just going to the bath houses again and doing my uh my pill drugging thing uh would have been nice wasn't in the cars Tracy Ed would have been dead thanks be to God he isn't and you know when I saw the locks in the door when they showed me what they look like from the inside I might have said when Heraldo or donu asked me I don't know I saw a couple hundred block as far as I'm concerned what difference does that make you heard the testimony I told them how long talked to you 15 minutes when the first time we met the night before I'm going to fool this jury I'm going to have this Tracy Edwards start saying uh rocking enchanting like he did on donu and Rivera that's going to sell the program nonsense what do you think was going on in that apartment for those four hours when dmer was in there and he got that Tracy Edward up there he was getting ready to kill him and the only reason in my opinion that Tracy Edwards is not dead because Tracy Edwards is very bright he knew how to Jive sufficiently to keep this guy from making the final move and the Fatal move and it was only after a period of time that he saw his Escape Route and got out of there and he runs down he tells the police there's a crazy guy up there this guy's in out of a trance he tells he's watching excis 3 rocking back and forth and mumbling and chanting well what would you expect a guy like dmer to be doing while he's getting ready to kill a human being and keep their skull and Def flesh him and cut him up and I asked Dr poo that and he said well it's like he's going to work I mean it's just so silly this is a sick guy and thanks be to God there's a Tracy Edwards around to at least help you make your decision but don't be fooled because he went on Heraldo and Donnie Hill who were cross-examining him you know I always heard impeachment lawyer X the qu and didn't you you say this and didn't you say that now I got to we got to contend with how haraldo and Donnie who asked their questions in front of Television cameras and a whole audience full of people was some poor young kid that was going to get $50 prop posing and wasn't too sure he wanted to do that how many locks did you see a lot of lock I about eight or nine locks he had well he did have a pretty good security system back the fact and of course the people across the way did too because they had three locked on their door and you can see in the pictures it was showing to you so I don't see what we really got down with po Tracy Edwards trying to say you know you're making this up because what you want to be a star of them nonsense this guy was getting ready to kill him he was going to be victim number 16 number 19 and I am not Tracy edwards's protector but thanks be to God Tracy Edwards is a human being and existed in this world because if he wasn't what we would end up doing is having all of these other people killed because this thing was never going to stop ever the doctors would say at all times he was able to conform his country the light admit to you that he wasn't able to conform his conduct as far as the content of the statement of all of these people is concerned as far as I'm concerned they're all equal some got a couple of more things than others some went into further detail than others but what they got was that they gave the police for 60 hours he didn't invent things after that they see well he invented this Temple concept no the police just didn't get into the temple concept he didn't invent that if he's smart enough to start inventing he's going to start invent hearing noises and hallucinations and delusions he never said I was having a delusion eating body parts the doctor says is well there's you know some people believe that's part of the protein so you are what you eat she believed that this way he keeps them with him when he eats their body part that's not bad thinking huh that's not the thinking of a crazy man I'm going to create a sex life no that's okay because frankly he might be able to do that that's crazy thinking chanting rocking having an altar where you're going to lay out the 10 skull skulls of 10 human beings you killed to sit in a chair and to draw power from it in order to become successful in life and maybe like in the real estate business is crazy thinking so I submit to you you may not agree that I proved Conformity but I proved Insanity now I got to ask you about the Conformity the Conformity part in my opinion lawyers got to say that in my opinion on part of the rules the Conformity part is a very tricky concept back the alcoholism I don't know how else to do it I wish I could do it some other way person takes his first drink when he's in high school PR gets drun goes to college fraternity Park goes in the Army lot of drinking in the Army a lot of drinking there the man kind of thing after 40 go out to go out the Milwaukee County Stadium and watch a Packer game and baseball game all of a sudden all these nice people who just are great all week long suddenly become what they call a two pisted slob and get everybody annoyed at them these aren't bad people these are people who just drank too much but some people are on the road to alcoholism they're going to become alcoholic now every time they start taking a drink doesn't mean they're alcoholic because they progress into a state of heavy drinking they're not alcoholic they're probably not going to be too happy if they say hey I'm finished that's it well I no more hangovers for me I'm done with them they got control they can stop but when they cross that line they cross that line they're sick and they may quit I don't care if eight out of 10 quit I don't care if nine out of 10 quit I don't care if 99 out of 100 quit there is that one that can't quit it's too late gone so in his alcoholism a person is progressing in it and we all have had somebody in Our Lives who is like the person I'm describing had that one drink too many and it's all over and when he got in to the Anthony Sears time as he's going to jail to keep that thing in his locker and as he starts going up taking these bodies like he was he was packed the time of self-help follow his sickness was so bad at that juncture that he couldn't have conformed his dep law now I guess one of the ways I can ask the question if you really believe that at any given time along this track of disaster he could have said that's it I'm finished being I'm not going to do the anymore I'm going back to my old ways I'm going back to the peep shows I'm going to just go back to the bath houses if you believe that then you can say he could conform but if you believe that at any time up this track he got to the point where he was out of control it was all done with then you must say my opinion again that he couldn't conform his conduct to the requirements the law because the law told him you can't do any of that any of it and we're talking about the killings and that's why I asked Dr D at the moment of the killing was he suffering from whatever he was suffering from yet he said so therefore the killings whatever the ultimate purpose creating zombies that might live might not live saving body parts eating body parts having sex before after visc doesn't matter at the moment of the killings was he out of control no the doctor said he he could have stopped from doing that he did that he just did that he wasn't getting any pleasure from that so therefore he wasn't doing that because of his mental disease that's nonsense that's nonsense that's like saying that the drunk who takes a drink because he can't stand his hangover enjoys or doesn't enjoy the act of drinking what difference does it make it's what the ACT is that we look at what his sickness was that we look at and how he went about manifesting that sickness he was out of control by Tears whether so out of control that he couldn't never stop after that I don't know but I'll tell you if he was getting up the line with poor Mr Smith and Mr Miller he started creating these zombies with Mr Lindsay he got to Mr Conor young Conor goodbye and if you think I'm right I think I think I've recited the law properly I think I said that I have proved to you to a reasonable certainty by the greater weight of credibility credible evidence that he was suffering from a mental disease I think I've said that I did that with the rookie walram the rookie what do you know Dr walram you you never done this before well you know what none of these people have ever testified in a Jeffrey dmer kind of case before Dr Fel says it's internationally the only one he's ever heard of it's precedent setting so what difference if they're used to testify it's like saying that the only good trial ERS are those who have done it 50 times it's nonsense doesn't have anything to do with it these people who are Forensic psychiatrists are trained to tell juries look at juries and tell them what their opinions are so I should have gone out I'm a dumbell right I should have just G out and got forensic psychiatrist I went out and got psychiatrist who knows what the hell is wrong with this guy is that what you wanted to know isn't that what my obligation was to you to tell you to bring to you somebody can explain this madness so that the world out there knows they're seeing this so that there's some people out there that say good God there's help for those like him because no human being in the face of the Earth could do anything worse than what he did maybe just change the age or the sex of the victims but the ACT nobody could be more reprehensible than this man if he's sa no the devil would be in a tide but if he's sick if he's sick then he isn't the devil and I submit to you that he was so sick question that remains is could he have stopped now substantial capacity in my opinion means that he was so impaired or became so impaired that it was all over he couldn't stop he couldn't conform he couldn't say I'm not going to do it he was the alcoholic with the Shak sitting at the table with the bottle of front of them who takes the drink it's too late to ask that guy ha B come on don't take that drink it's all you got control he's like the mentally ill alcohol whose alcoholism is so bad that everyone in the world knows without question that he's going to take that drink that's what dmer was think huh I said 55 minutes I'm an hour and 10 minutes I got to rebuttal and rebuttal is a thing that lawyers do to say this is what I don't think the other fell made sense in telling Mr mccan will tell you absolutely that basically everything I said about the mental disease and the Conformity is wrong and there's no proof of it and I fail I'm not concerned about that because that's his job to do that and I believe he believed that I think he believed all my doctors were nonsense people although Dr DEET said that he would refer people with paraphilic disorders to Dr Becker and Dr Berlin there's no ego in these courtrooms as far as I'm concerned anybody in the world thinks that I was going to change Dr Jet's opinion about anything I never I mean I would really think I'd be smart to be able to change anybody's opinion about anything that was not the test in this courtroom wasn't the test to see who's the smartest who's the best it was to explore what they said so that je people can say you know I got to rely upon Deets Deets was so much better than the others I don't care what they said I'm not listening to him de has it all figured out because he spent 18 hours and what does Berlin know he only spent three or four or six well probably he knew in the same way that I knew that I was dealing with a pretty sick guy in about the first half hour I talked with him cuz I think there's an axium in law called res loor it's not in this case and cute little Latin word it means the thing speaks for itself and it's not here it's not part of the thing that you can if you're walking down the street and and somebody throws something out a window and hits you and you look up and you say that person injured me I got to go and find out who that is I'm going to sue that person throw that thing out the window that's a negligent case within negligence there's a thing called res the thing speaks for itself you don't have to prove the negligence walking down the street a brick comes off bil hit you on the head how you going to prove negligence my God the building was built so the bricks wouldn't fall off and hit people on the head as they're walking down the street so all you have to do is prove how damaged you were that's what resed zip is resed z is he had to be crazy first thing this guy who does all of this is crazy but I'm not a I never heard the word paraphilia I never knew that there were human beings in the world that have recurrent intense intense sexual urges and sexually arousing fantasies that cause them the stress and that they act upon them that go on for a period of 6 months I'd never met anybody like that and if I had somebody started talking me I'd probably leave them so I learned as you were learning hope hopefully from the doctors as to what this fell had nobody not Dr Berlin Dr Becker Dr walstrom Dr bosil or Dr de are saying he was anything other than paraphilic they all agree on that Dr poo doesn't think he was that Dr Freeman said he had personality disorders but they were serious enough that it was a mental disease so all the doctors were pretty much in agreement on that my doctors think he was out of control the rest of them don't think he was it isn't 5 to 4 6:3 because if it is going to be a numbers game then you have to find that he was mentally diseased because the numbers say he was mentally diseased you're just going to have to say whether or not he was out of control and I want you to remember one thing my doctors said that as he was going along this killing three it got worse and worse and worse and his substantial capacity lessened and lessened and lessened until it was non-existent and that's what I've said and your choices are going to be whether or not he was insane as to all sane as to all insane but able to conform sane as the Su able to conform as to Su insane as to Su unable to conform as a and in rebuttal I'm going to say tell you the effect of that as I'm allowed to you know we all live by rules of the cour of law so there's things I have to say and can't say but we're going to all use our Common Sense here today and we're going to walk out of here with pride pride in the fact that all of us have done what we took us to do not be concerned about the World At Large because we can't you know I said I try not to be a hero I know I'm not a hero but I try not to be a coward and I will not run from what I say I have to do and I know you won't run from what you said you will do so with that I'm going to sit down I think we're going to take a break and Mr mcc's going to argue and I'll have your b line thank you for your consideration I me your than take and then we'll hear from Mr M