Download Subtitles for Christian vs Jewish vs Muslim Women Video

Is Mahatma Gandhi in hell because he was

a Hindu?

>> If anyone is not in Christ, they

rejected the way.

>> So Mahatma Gandhi who spent his whole

life doing goodness is in hell.

>> Good by what standard? That's the

problem. Like I mean moral morality act

behaving uh behaving morally with a

wicked heart does not get you into

heaven

>> because he wasn't a Christian. No,

because he was a racist.

>> Jesus was s for that time. So the people

who existed during that time were

supposed to follow Jesus [music]

peace be upon him. However, God sends

prophets to every nations, every nation

and God [music] sends prophets to every

time. So from as Muslims, we believe

that Jesus was sent for his time with

his message and that today the prophet

for the the end of time like the last

prophet the se prophet for all of

mankind

the mercy to the world is prophet

Muhammad peace be upon him. I don't

necessarily know that you guys would

recognize the Messiah even if there was

a Messiah because the pattern is killing

any prophet that says not to do a

certain

>> You killed Moses.

>> You murder your I didn't say all of your

prophets. You just said all of your You

just said all of your Let me clarify.

You murder your prophets. You said all

of your prophets.

>> Please stop cutting me off. I'm

communicating.

>> In this episode, two Jewish, two

Christian, and two Muslim women sit face

to face to explore the core differences

behind their Abrahamic faiths. Judaism,

Christianity, and [music] Islam.

Together, they will discuss how their

beliefs guide their values,

relationships, and their everyday

choices while confronting the

misconceptions [music]

that often keep their communities

divided. I'm your host, Dr. Michelle Da.

Welcome to The Bridge.

>> My name is Ana, and I'm a Muslim.

>> My name is Maja and I'm a Muslim.

>> My name is Lauren and I am an Orthodox

Jew. Hello, my name is Raala Taktuk. I'm

an Orthodox Jew. I was raised Orthodox,

very passionate about the Bible, the

Torah, Jewish history from Florida. Very

happy to be here.

>> My name is Shanasa and I'm a Christian.

>> My name is Kalia and I'm a Christian.

>> Welcome ladies. Thank you so much for

being here today.

>> And the first prompt is the Torah,

Bible, and Quran all point to the same

God. Three, two, one.

Okay, anyone can discuss.

>> So, I think for a long time I believed

that they all point to the same God as

far as their Abrahamic religions. Um,

but I feel like the more that I studied

the word of God in comparison to the

Quran. Um, and the Tanakh, I came away

with more so they're related to the same

region. I wouldn't necessarily say

they're related to the same God. Um, I

would concede that the Tanakh is talking

about the Yahweh of our Bible. Um, but I

don't think you can deny Jesus and then

still have the same God.

>> I would say um that yes, all of the, you

know, the Quran, the I try not to call

it the Old Testament. I call it the

Torah

>> obviously and the Christian Bible, they

do point to the same God, but I do

believe it matters how you get there.

Obviously, as a Jew, I believe the Torah

is the truth. Um, you know, Moses said

that, you know, there was Moses said to

the Jewish people in Deuteronomy, who

which great nation has had a Torah like

this? And he was basically saying, there

is not ever going to be another

revelation like this? There hasn't been

a people ever. Even, you know, with

these great world religions that are

presented here by these gorgeous women

um that has ever claimed this like

unbelievable revelation like the ones

that the Jews have claimed they saw on

Sinai. millions of people as God like

ripped open the heavens and and made

this connection between heaven and

earth. And no other people has claimed

that. And by the way, um you know, I I

talk about this with my husband all the

time who's a rabbi and my father who's a

rabbi. Um not a single word of the Torah

has ever changed. Not once, ever. And

that is a testament not just to me, you

know, the truth of the of the Torah, but

the fact that we literally witnessed

that revelation actually, and it was

passed down from father to son, mother

to daughter, whatever you want to say,

until, you know, us Jewish women here,

we still have, you know, we don't we say

we're not believers. We're knowers. We

know God exists because we are our

ancestors actually saw it. You know,

there's something different between

believing and seeing. So, I believe it

matters how you get there. Although I I

do know that, you know, I I've studied

the Trinity. Um, I've studied Islam a

little bit less just because, you know,

Christian Christianity and Judaism are

much more connected in my opinion. Um,

but I would say they do point to the

same God. Um, but it matters how you get

there. I believe that.

>> Thank you. Thank you.

>> Uh, [snorts] yes. So

the Bible, Torah and Quran um being

birthed from prophet Abraham um the

Quran is like a summation of the

previous text, major text and even texts

that we don't know about that maybe were

lost um and the previous prophets. So we

believe as Muslims uh that Islam has

always been uh and that the previous

messages confirm that there is only one

God um and then whatever particular

prophet was endowed with the message at

that time uh whatever laws were given

for that particular people. So

>> thank you.

>> Do you believe that God continues to

reveal himself beyond the Hebrew

scriptures?

So in my opinion,

the way the way that Jews see things, we

have the Torah. That's that's what we

believe. I think God is in as as Jews

believe, we believe that God is in a

little bit of him is in every second of

our life. So I don't think revealed in

terms of like the Torah is going to

change. It's not. That's what it is. But

he it is something that as Jews we bring

into our life every single day. So for

me personally,

like I I like to believe that God

reveals himself to me every day. He

reveals himself to the Jewish people

every day.

>> But that being said, history is not

changing. The Torah is not changing. Our

guidelines of how we choose to live our

life not changing. But I do, you know,

on my good days, I hope that like God is

with me always, you know, revealing

himself to me in ways that sometimes you

get the the blessing of clarity, you

know.

>> Yeah, that's true. What about you,

sweetie?

>> Um, do I believe that God reveals

himself beyond the Hebrew scriptures?

>> Yes, beyond the Hebrew scriptures.

>> Um, so that was a beautiful answer and

uh, no, I don't believe that God reveals

himself beyond the Torah. Um,

uh, something I guess we'll get into

later is that, you know, Moses

continuously, constantly says the Torah

doesn't change. Um, and when I research

or, you know, look into other world

religions, I do find that there are lots

of changes. Um, but you can also just

see I don't like to work usually

backwards, like look at the world and

look back at scripture, but I do just so

often think of, you know, not only can

we not change the Torah, but it's also

so perfect. Um, what other moral uh set

of beliefs, which other, you know, set

of laws like the ten commandments

has has influenced the world the way the

ten commandments have? I mean, they are

just eternal. Um, and I mean I listen to

a lot of uh podcasters, Christian

podcasters, Muslim podcasters and

classes. Um, and a lot of people say,

let's say for the Christians, you know,

Judeo-Christian values.

>> And I'll say, well, and then they'll

quote like the Ten Commandments or the

Bible, do not murder. These are, by the

way, revolutionary things because if you

read history, people were slaughtering

each other day and night really for no

reason other than like territorial gain.

Um, and God said, "No, you may not

murder." And that is the ten

commandments are the basis of our

civiliz civilization in America. But a

lot of these podcasters will quote the

Bible and then say see Christianity is

the um you know the foundation of

civilization. And I want to remind them

that the ten ten commandments come from

the Torah which is not originally a

Christian book. It's a Jewish book which

beautifully Christians adopted. Um, I

think the Torah is so perfect and Moses

in him saying he said, "Do not change

it." Because God revealed himself to the

world through the Jewish people, not

meaning only to the Jewish people, were

like a conduit for the world. Um, and

that revelation was perfect. And I don't

think we need to add or change it at

all.

>> So, I don't think anything else uh is is

a revelation besides the Torah.

>> Okay. I have a question for you ladies.

Christians believe that Jesus is God.

Okay. Can people who reject Jesus as

divine still worship the same God?

>> No, they cannot because the Christian

believes that Jesus Christ is

a part of the Godhead. Um, I wanted to

answer that and also touch on a couple

of things that you guys said which I

think was really fascinating. Um,

obviously the nature of God for us is

trinitarian and we get that from the

Torah. We get that from the Tanakh. I

and most Christians subscribe to a

belief called progressive revelation.

And it's something that you see in

everyday life when you have children.

You do not tell them as soon as you have

them everything about the birds and the

bees or what your how old you are or

this. You wait until they mature and

then you begin to reveal things. And you

said something about clarity. And I feel

like that's exactly the Christian's

perspective. The New Testament is not

changing

anything necessarily. It's it's

providing more clarity as to God's

loving nature. It's an expression of

God's love to the highest degree. And um

I agree with you that it's perfect. But

the problem is that we are imperfect.

Which is why in Jeremiah

Jeremiah highlights this. In Jeremiah

31, I believe it is 31:31. He says, "I'm

going to make a new covenant because the

previous one y'all broke." That's

literally the words that he uses, not

y'all. God didn't say it like that. I'm

making God Texas. But [laughter] he's

like, "The previous one you broke

because I was a husband to you guys, but

you guys broke the covenant." Then he

uses other language, Jeremiah 32:4. He

said, "I'm going to now give you all one

heart and one way to worship me, and I'm

going to give you an everlasting

covenant." Why all of a sudden in

Jeremiah halfway through history is God

now talking about an everlasting

covenant? That implies, and these are

God's words, not mine, that the previous

one was broken somehow. it wasn't

everlasting, which is why he's alluding

to something that's going to come. So,

the idea that um it's closed contradicts

what is revealed in scripture because it

would be one thing if I would say like I

have no reference points to point back

to the idea that Christianity is founded

upon, but all throughout scripture, you

see that Jesus or God, who I believe is

Jesus, gives nuggets like this is going

to happen. Last thing I'll say is one

great example for this and I hope that

you guys would look into it is the story

of Abraham. I study that story a lot

because I can really relate to him. But

when you when you first meet Abraham,

you meet him in Genesis 11 and then in

Genesis 12:2,

God talks to him out of nowhere and

says, "I'm going to make you a nation."

And so he he he says, "Get up and go."

Abraham doesn't know what he's talking

about. He just gives him a little

nugget, but he gets up and he goes. And

then in the same chapter, Genesis 12:7,

he said, "I'm gonna give you

descendants." So now God is giving him a

little bit more and he what does Abraham

do? He gets up and he makes an altar and

then he gives him the most clarity in

Genesis 13

14-1 17 he says look at the the the sand

on the seashore. If you can count them

you'll be able to count your descendants

and I'm going to make a great nation

from you. He's giving him little by

little by little. And Abraham is

responding. And then Genesis 15:6 you

see the pivotal verse. He says um and

Abraham finally believed God and it was

accounted to him as righteousness at

that point. So God is a God that

continues to bring clarity. God is

perfect, but we are not. So the

Christian God is Jesus and he's not

random. He He's been there all along.

>> Thank you. I would like her I would like

her to respond. I just wanted to ask a

question. You said that the Torah

affirms the Trinity.

>> Yes, absolutely.

>> Also, can you would you like to respond

to that or did you want me? I I would

love to respond. So, um yes, absolutely.

So, in the beginning, I mentioned this

in a previous episode, um, the very

first book, it says in the beginning,

God. And it uses the word Elohim,

>> which we know is a word to use to

describe God or to call God. But the

interesting thing about it is it's a

plural word. So, L is just L is actually

just a generic word for God. Like you

see bel for bell, it's a very generic

word in the Seemitic language for God.

But then you have Elohim, which is God.

And it's a plural form. And in the same

chapter, you see God speaking and he

says, "Let us go down and make man in

our image." You see little things like

that all throughout. Even when it says

about the Holy Spirit, it says, "In the

beginning, God created the heavens and

the earth." And it says, "And then the

Holy Spirit was hovering over the deep."

It's it's showing a spirit that has some

independent agency apart from God, who

we just saw in the very first verse. I

can list probably 30 things like that

throughout the Old Testament where you

see that it's not simply just a strict I

guess monotheistic God as maybe you guys

would understand it.

>> Right. Right. I've I heard of this in

like the Arabic where it's like the the

royal eye. That's what that's what my

teachers would say like the royal eye.

This God [snorts] is so great that like

>> he can speak to us in this kind of way.

But can I I just wanted to ask one more

question really quickly about um

>> I think that um what is the Hebrew word

for image?

>> Well, okay. Can I respond to you in one

second for so Shinasa, you quoted

Jeremiah 31? Yes. Jeremiah 31 when he

said, "I will make a second covenant."

He uses the word Israel and Judah. He

actually says, "I'm creating a second

covenant with Israel and Judah." Meaning

he's talking to the Jewish people.

That's number one. Uh, number two, you

quoted Jeremiah. Jeremiah, which verse

did you

>> 32:40?

>> What did it say again?

>> It says that I'm going to give you all

one heart with one way to worship me,

and I'm going to make an everlasting

covenant.

>> Yes. Again, uh, towards Judah and the

Jewish people. He's just talking. He's

reiterating what Moses has been saying

for 40 years, an eternal covenant,

eternal covenant. By the way, it is

literally impossible, at least for us

Jews, that Jeremiah would ever imply uh

for anyone to worship Jesus because most

of the book of Jeremiah is him going

crazy about idol worship. And the

definition of idolatry in Judaism,

again, Christianity didn't ex exist yet.

So Jeremiah was a Jew, uh is like the

second uh commandment of the ten

commandments, the likeness of anything

above or below. Moses said said this in

Deuteronomy 4. uh the likeness of a man

or a woman. So to me at least it is

impossible that Jeremiah would be

talking about a human being because the

entire book of Jeremiah as him saying if

you guys don't stop idolatry the bdashes

the holy temple is going to be

destroyed.

>> I wanted to know the Hebrew word for

image

>> salum.

>> Salum okay cuz I know like Arabic rasim

I believe is image

>> and isim is name. And I wonder if those

ever like because in Islam we would

understand that like the human beings

are an embodiment of the names of God of

the names of God. So I would I would I I

just always wonder like is it like a

difference of um the wording or

something like translating what Jesus

peace be upon him said into English if

there is like some type of mixup between

>> um the words image versus name possibly

like Arabic is rosim and isim

>> you want to answer

>> well for us shame is name so it's not

really so right that that's what it is

even

>> so the image is what in Hebrew again

salam

>> salam and the word in Hebrew for uh name

Shame.

>> Shame. Okay.

>> I was thinking with based on what she

said, Eloh Kim being a plural. There are

many names for God. That doesn't mean

that we're talking about many different

people. It's still the same person, just

many different names, which I think

that's where that pluralistic piece

could have come in.

>> So, I would just say um yes and amen to

everything you said about the Torah. We

believe that the Torah is true and it is

the revelation of God. Um we just

believe that Jesus is the fulfillment of

everything that was said in the Torah.

>> What does that mean?

>> Okay. So when Jesus is asked what what

the greatest command is, he says to love

God, the Lord your God with all your

heart, soul, and mind. And the second is

like it to love others as yourself. The

law and the prophets hinge on these two

commandments. So it's not an undoing of

the commandments. It's saying that the

commandments are fulfilled through the

person of Christ because Christ is the

sacrificial lamb. to the point about

Elohim. When we understand the Trinity,

which I know we'll get to the Trinity,

so I'm not going to go deep into this,

but when we when we understand the word

Elohim, and when we understand the

Trinity, we're not understanding the

Trinity as three different people. And

so, I see how that's confusing when we

say, "Oh, there are three different

people that are God." That's not what

we're saying. God is spirit. Jesus is

the person of God. He's the incarnation

of God on earth, and then there's God,

the Father, and the three of them make

up the Godhead. They're not like three

individuals in the same way that we're

all sitting here. Um, and then I would

say in Daniel 7:13-14, it talk Daniel is

talking about the ancient of days giving

dominion and keys over to the son of

man. It says that this son of man will

have glory, have sovereign power, and

that the nations will bow down to him.

So then even if you deny that Jesus is

the Messiah, you have to deal with the

fact that there is a son of man or a

messiah, you have to deal with the fact

that there is some concept of a

pluralistic God in the Old Testament.

And then Proverbs 34 says, "Who is this

God who's gathered the ends of the

earth, who's cloaked the waters?" And

then it says, "What is his name and what

is his son's name?" So I think we have

to deal with that question.

>> So ladies here, what does it mean when

the Quran says it came as a confirmation

of what was revealed before?

>> Beautiful.

>> Um, okay. So for me growing up, my

father is a Baptist Christian and um we

were just kind of raised to believe in

God and do good deeds, not necessarily

like with this particular religious uh

you know mindset. So um my mother is a

Muslim, father is a Baptist Christian.

So when I was a child, I used to read

the children's Bible. That was like my

favorite book. Like I would literally

carry it around all the time and I would

just read it over and over and over

again. like I would finish it, read it

again, finish it, read it again. And

it's not like, you know, the the you

know the original Bible, but um the

children's Bible, it had just like many

stories of the prophets and I just I

just fell in love with each and every

one of their stories. And um as an adult

I I became Muslim around the age of 18

and um went to study some Islam and I

did a class on the history of prophets

and uh I was reintroduced to the

prophets in a different kind of way. Uh

for example, I was introduced to the

story of Adam peace be upon him and um

how God created him from the soil of the

earth and um I I love that story. I was

I was introduced to Eve or Howa in

Arabic. Um I was introduced to like

Shaon, Satan, who is the devil. I

initially I thought uh growing up that

maybe he was like a fallen angel or

something like that. But um when I was

taking the class uh on history of

prophets, it became clear that he wasn't

a fallen angel because in Islam, angels

do not disobey God at all. Um but that

there is another creation that has free

will um called jin. um they have free

will just like human beings and um that

the Quran says that shaon was a jin. So

um also going to the story of Abraham. I

remember I love that story in the Bible.

This that story is like in the Quran and

I was like okay. Um so Abraham he had

these two sons and different things

happened. Um and um you have uh was

Hagar

um you have Hannah Sarah right? Sarah

Sarah and um I just felt like that um

Islam, the stories within the Quran

about the prophets affirmed the stories

that I had read as a child in the Hebrew

Bible and kind of expounded on them for

me. Um even the story of Noah and the

ark that's there. Um Moses is also

mentioned more times in the Quran than

Jesus peace be upon him as well as

Muhammad peace be upon him. And um um in

addition to that, lastly, the story of

prophet Jonah is mentioned in the Quran

as well as the Bible. And um I just

personally really resonate with those

stories and I found that those stories

were also present in the Bible.

>> So So are is what you're saying that the

Quran confirmed what was revealed before

in the Bible? Is that what you're

saying? Right. What I'm saying is that

the Quran I believe that the Quran it

confirms the stories of the prophets

that exist within the Bible.

>> Okay. Got it.

>> So again the the Quran is um we believe

as Muslims that revelation came in

stages right not just in the for the

Quran being compiled but the message of

again there is no God but one God. Mhm.

>> Um, so that came over obviously

centuries and eons, right? Going all the

way to back to Adam. Then you Adam,

Noah, uh, I'm not saying it in in

succession, right? But Adam, Noah,

Jonah, Joseph, Abraham, Ishok, and or

Isaac and Ishmael, um, and David,

Solomon, right? Even like more obscure

stories like the seven sleepers, right?

um uh prophet Enoch etc. Right? That all

and that and then many prophets Allah

tells us in the in the Quran um some you

know of some you do not know of right so

meaning as far as the um revelation

being being given right

>> can I so quickly

>> um let me just one second if I land this

way so

>> um

>> so essentially

>> the previous message the central themes

of this previous messages are that again

there is only one god that we need to

come back to the worship of the one God

going to like the testament right or the

10 I'm sorry not testament I'm sorry the

ten commandments right like one of the

ten commandments is um no graven images

before god right no idols before god

right um something I was also raised

Christian so my grandma would tell me

it's like you know god is a jealous god

like you don't make a you know partners

with him so the emphat so just about the

Quran being a confirmation it's like

this emphatic confirmation of that

central theme and that these prophets

did exist that Jesus uh is of virgin

birth and that he did ex you know that

he did exist um and that um the also I'm

sorry here's the point the original uh

the original um confir not confirmation

but the original revelation of those

texts unfortunately texts have been

altered they have been adjusted for

various reasons and means over time. Um,

so the Quran is like this emphatic like

this is what was said. These are the

these are the stories that are valid and

and and um sure, you know, not to

dismiss, you know, um ones, you know,

NIA or, you know, our intentions like,

okay, you know, because we know we have

a a reverence of course, you know,

following as Jews or Christians, but

that's just that, you know, these are

the confirmed valid stories.

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prompt is, "My religion holds the

complete and final revelation of God." 3

2 1

Okay, maybe from someone who hasn't

spoken much. What about you? Go ahead.

>> It's so funny you picked me because I'm

usually the talkest talker in the whole

world.

Yeah. As listen, as Jews, we believe

that there is one God. The Torah there

meaning actually from what you said

before that um that the Quran kind of

solidifies that that these are the

stories and these are the truth, right?

>> But the stories are still based on Torah

from my understanding.

>> So,

so

>> well as one of the confirmed books,

right? The Torah, the original inal

gospel. Not to cut you off, I want you.

>> No, no. I want to understand. Yeah.

>> The Torah, the NGO, the Gospel, um the

Zabore or the Psalms of David. Um and

then

>> Muslims have to believe in those books.

All of them.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Um so my understanding is that other

religions branched out from the original

which would be Judaism. So

that I mean that's that's how I feel

about it. I just think that yes, there

were translations and different things

and things got lost based on um societal

different things for whatever the reason

is, but the bottom line is is like

the the Torah is the bottom line. That's

it.

>> Anyone want to speak on that?

>> The purpose of revelation,

I would say the sole purpose of

revelation is to keep the laws. When God

comes to humanity and says this is evil,

this is good, this is immoral, this is

moral, the entire purpose of revelation

is to keep the law. When I obviously I

have so much respect for Christians and

Muslims, of course, God forbid, for

anything else, but the Jewish people are

the only people who actually keep the

law. Moses continuously says, and he,

you know, the whole book of Deuteronomy,

it takes 37 days. He's about to die.

It's very tragic. I cry every time I

read it. You know, we have the cycle

that we read every uh year. And he says,

"I'm going to die. Do not become corrupt

and change the Torah." He He's begging.

And again, Revelation is for observance.

The only people who actually observe the

Torah exactly how it is are the Jewish

people. So yes, I I echo what Lauren

said that the Bible is the complete and

full revelation um which is open to

everyone but we cannot add and uh we

cannot change.

>> I would respectfully disagree on your

definition of revelation. Revelation is

not specifically to keep the law because

obviously we cannot. The law was given

to us to allow us some form or fashion

to be able to relate to God because God

is a holy God and we are imperfect

people. So he gives us this like kind of

as a governance so that we can at least

be able to approach him. The problem

with it is going back to that same exact

scripture. It it's it highlights the

fact that we broke and it says the

covenant that was given to you on Mount

Si. So it's literally referring to

Moses's words.

>> Which verse? Jeremiah 31

31 through 34. Is it?

>> I'm just confused by that only because

yeah, they they broke the ten

commandments. We got new ones. I don't

understand.

>> So that that that that goes against I

guess your position if if if you if you

have new ones from God.

>> They're the exact same.

>> Let's be clear. The exact same ones.

Moses came down, dropped them, broke

them, went back up, got another set from

God directly, and brought them back down

to the Jewish people. That's what we

believe,

>> right? I I understand that. But the

point that I'm making is that even with

those laws that were broken, even in

that moment came down, you see the

golden calf, he goes up, he gets the law

again, the cycle still continues. You

see that? That's why they were exiled.

That's why we believe you we need the

ultimate sacrificial system found in

Jesus Christ because we continue the

same tragic, I guess, trajectory, if you

will.

>> Do you believe Jesus saves you?

>> Yes.

>> Yes. That is probably the biggest

difference between Judaism and

Christianity. You keep bringing up

struggles the Jewish people had. By the

way, this is one of the reasons you know

that the Jews did not write the Bible

because it makes us look really bad. In

Judaism, struggle is not is key. By the

way, how do you become like God? You

said revelation is not for keeping

observing. You become like God through

action. So, first of all, in Judaism, we

don't have any human sacrifice ever. Um,

it almost happened, didn't happen. We

believe that we are our own saviors. We

have to become good people. save

ourselves to be close to God. God gave

us moral law. You become like God by

becoming a moral human being. You're a

partner in creation with God. We don't

believe that we're fallen and someone

needs to save us. We all have a soul.

All of us in this room. Sorry. Not just

Jews. Something's wrong with me.

>> It's fine. [laughter] Go for it.

>> Not just Jews. Obviously, God, everyone

has a soul. You and I and all of us in

this room have the potential to uplift

and elevate ourselves to be godlike. to

be like God, moral good. We don't need

someone to save us. That is like the

tenant of Judaism. So yes, the Jews

broke the law. I break the law sometimes

and I feel what is wrong with me? We

continue. It's like a marriage, right?

You continue. No one is coming to save

us. We save ourselves. We have to earn

Messiah Messiah. We'll get there. But

that is a main difference in uh in in

Christianity. I'm I'm not going to go

into the verses cuz

>> do you view later scriptures like the

New Testament or the Quran as human

writings or as possible divine

revelations that simply don't apply to

Jews?

>> Human writings. What do you think?

>> Um yes. Uh interestingly enough, sorry

to always talk about Christianity. I

just study it a lot more. Um I have

studied Islam, but I have a lot more to

learn. Um human writings uh well also

Okay. Okay, but that's another point.

But um I believe that the man that

Christians worship Jesus, he himself

would not have wanted people, not

wanted. He would have told he was an

Orthodox Jew just like me. He was a

rabbi. He kept chabas. He kept kosher.

He had muzzas on his door. He kept

sukkot and Passover. And he did not

believe that human beings should ever be

worshiped. So that is the way that I

that is one of the reasons I believe

that the Christian Bible uh is human

written. It was human man-made because

the very man that is at the foundation

of the text would have completely

condemned human worship.

>> Let me say something to that if you

don't mind. Are you familiar with the

story of Mary Magdalene?

>> Somewhat. Okay. So Mary Magdalene

apparently had seven demons and Jesus

cast the demons out and there's a scene

in the Bible where Mary Magdalene is

bowing down and taking her hair crying

and washing his feet and um the

Pharisees get offended by that because

they say the same thing that you just

said that that's worship and Jesus

doesn't rebuke her he affirms her. He

says you know what this woman's story is

going to be repeated throughout history

or something along those lines. Which

book of the New Testament is this?

>> This is in the Gospels. I think the

account is in it's it's probably in all

four accounts. I'm not exactly sure, but

Jesus receives worship uh many times

throughout the Gospels. Um even the the

rich young ruler, if you're familiar

with that story, he he gave him the ten

commandments. He says, you know, he

says, "Good teacher, what must I do to

be saved?" And he says, "You know the

commandments." He points him back to the

commandments. Do this, do this. He said,

"I've done all those things. I'm good.

I'm great." He said, "Sill one thing you

lack." He said, "Sell everything that

you have and follow me." So he was

pointing at the

>> as God or as Messiah

>> as who who else should we follow? Like

I'm not following you. I'm not

following.

>> But it's different if it's God or

Messiah. In the first three gospels,

Jesus never deifies himself. It's only

the last one. And from what I've read,

the last one is uh John, right?

>> That was way after Jesus died. And uh

the Roman Empire hated Jews. uh and uh

whoever you know I'm not exactly sure

who wrote the last book of the gospels

but they were very much trying to make a

break with Judaism by deifying Jesus.

>> That's not true. He deifies himself in

Mark 14 when the Pharisees ask when the

Pharisees ask him if he's the son of man

and he says yes.

>> What? I'm a son of man?

>> No. No. Let me finish please. He calls

himself the son of man and the Pharisees

take offense at that because if he just

meant that he was a human being they

would not have taken offense at it. And

he references the Daniel 7 passage when

he says this. who is coming on the

clouds, who ascends to the right hand of

the father specifically. So he is

deifying himself and saying I am that I

am. He we also see this angel of the

lord typology in the old testament.

Jesus echoes a lot of that language. The

I am that I am in Exodus 3:20 when we're

talking about the burning bush scene.

Also when Hagar is fleeing the abuses of

her mistress Sarah and she sees an angel

in the wilderness, the angel of the

Lord, she calls the angel of the Lord

Yahweh. She said, "This is the Lord who

sees me, Elroy." Why would she call an

angel of the Lord Elroy, the God who

sees me, if that wasn't an incarnation

of who God is? We know that God is

spirit. So, who is this incarnation? We

would argue that that's the second

person of the Trinity. But to say that

Jesus doesn't deify himself in the New

Testament, that's not true.

>> It was mostly Paul who who deified him.

And the first

>> gospels deify him.

>> The first three gospels, Jesus never

deifies himself ever. Not once. I've

read the entire thing. He doesn't deify

himself. He does not say, "I am God, son

of man." basically means anyone can be a

son of God

second also son of man. Maybe he was

referring to himself as a messiah and

other Jews said you're not. But Jesus

never said I am God. He never said it

because he was an orthodox Jew. That is

complete heresy. He would not. I admit

in the New Testament others deify

himself. Jesus unless I'm reading the

wrong New Testament in the first three

gospels he does not say that he is God.

He is encouraging other Jews to keep

hala which is crazy. Halaka is Jewish

law.

>> If it was he wouldn't sorry he wouldn't

have been crucified if he didn't call

himself God.

>> So to you ladies here do you believe

that Jesus is the fulfillment of God's

revelation? Does that mean revelation

ended with him and the New Testament?

>> Yes. Jesus is the fulfillment of God's

revelation because all throughout the

Old Testament you see um nuggets I like

to say of a version of God that we don't

readily identify with God. For example

um in Genesis 18 Abraham is having a

conversation with um three people. So

they three people, three angels I guess

or whatever you want to call it

initially approach him and they are

telling him about Sarah about to she's

going to have a kid. Two of those angels

turn back and go away and then one

figure remains and they walk over to the

precipice of Sodom and they they have

this conversation. Abraham and this

person is having this conversation about

the future of Sodom and Abraham

responds. He says, "Will you destroy

Sodom?" Obviously his nephew lives

there. He's trying to plea for Sodom.

Will you destroy it if it's 50 people,

40 people? And then he turns to him. He

says something very curious. Shall not

the judge of all the world do right? Why

would you call an angel the judge of all

the world? Again, there's so many things

like this. You you see when Moses is

about to become a prophet. You see that

um he's told to take his shoes off. He's

standing on holy ground. And then you

see the same thing when Joshua is

becoming a prophet. Joshua chapter 5,

Joshua is walking and he sees a physical

man. The man pulls out a sword and

Joshua says, "Friend or foe." He says,

"Neither I have come as the commander of

the army." And then he bows and he says,

bows down to him. He says, "What would

you have me do? What what does the Lord

say to me?" He says, "The same thing

that Moses heard at the burning bush and

we all know he was talking to God. Take

your shoes off. You're standing on holy

ground." So Jesus Christ is a

fulfillment of scripture. There are

scriptures that point directly to the

fact that the idea of strict monotheism,

as I guess you you um you both would

understand it, is not the way that is

revealed in scripture. And I do want to

say something to what you said

previously. You mentioned that Jesus

doesn't deify himself and that's just

simply not true. And then I don't also

like the fact that John is discredited

because it's discredited from like

talking points I believe that is not to

be disrespectful that may be heard

online because when you actually read

John it's not actually a later gospel.

John five it's one of my favorite

chapters. John 5:2 it says that it

describes the pool of Bethesda. It says

there in Jerusalem there was a pool of

Bethesda whatever whatever the temple

had been destroyed in 70 AD. It makes no

sense for John to write a book and says

there in Jerusalem there's a temple.

>> It wasn't written while the temple was

being destroyed.

>> It doesn't make sense.

>> It's much later.

>> It How do you know that?

>> From reading a thousand books and uh

reading historians. It was by the way I

just looked on a Christian website.

Everyone knows it was written after

Jesus was killed.

>> Dating for the gospels. Do you know how

dating for the Gospels is done?

>> Probably not as well as you do, but

yeah.

>> Dating for the Gospels is not some

robust system. We have no original

manuscripts. We only have copies. So,

what they do is they look at the eternal

facts. If I wrote you a letter and I

started talking about B2K and I'm like,

I'm going to the concert, you would know

that I'm probably writing this letter

from 2005. They do the same thing when

they're reading it. So, when you look at

the internal evidence, you find that the

book John 5:2, I encourage you to go

back and look at it. In that same

chapter, it discusses a practice that

only Jews would know in that time, the

stirring of the water to go down in the

pool of Siloam. It doesn't talk of it as

a

>> Jews were still alive, but

>> they would have known that at the time,

>> right? But it talks about it in a

present tense. That's the key

difference. It's not talking about

there's other parts of the of the gospel

that talks about things in a past tense

solidifying the fact that the temple was

destroyed, but that one particular

passage makes it seem like the temple is

still there. The temple was destroyed in

70 AD. So, this couldn't be something

long 50. That's just something that

people say online. It doesn't line up

with the with the

>> I haven't heard it online. I read it in

uh at least 10 different books on

Christianity. But I will say that uh

reading Jesus into the scriptures,

Jewish scriptures, is is Jesus is

reading backwards. Um and and I don't

know how Christians account for the fact

that multiple times in the Torah, 24

books of Tanakh consistently says that

God is not man. Samuel says to King Saul

literally when Saul was too cowardly to

kill you know the story to kill the king

of Amal Amalik.

>> He says Samuel literally says this for

God is not a man that he will change his

mind. What were you thinking? God told

you what to do and you didn't do it. God

is not a man that he should he should

change his mind. Again, Deuteronomy,

Moses about to die. He says, "Beware.

You will become corrupt and you will

worship something in the likeness of a

man or a woman." So, you obviously know

more about the New Testament than I do.

Obviously, because it's your faith, but

I definitely know a lot more, I believe,

about the Torah. I don't call it the Old

Testament because there's nothing old

about it besides the fact that it was

given a long time ago. You cannot read

Jesus into the Torah because it is

explicit multiple times.

Multiple times, God is not a man.

Numbers 23, Moses says it again. Is God

a man? God, sorry. God is not a man that

he shall relent.

>> So my question for you ladies,

>> can there ever be a prophet or

revelation after Muhammad or is

prophethood completely sealed?

>> Okay. Can we both answer if you want to

say something?

>> Okay. So in short, no. Uh we believe as

Muslims that Muhammad is the last and

final messenger. Um Allah tells us in

the Quran um surah 33 um ayat number 40

that um verily Muhammad is not a father

of of any of you men but he is a

messenger of Allah and the last and he's

the last of the prophets. Um we do

believe though in the return of Jesus.

Um and that will come later. We can talk

about that.

>> Yeah. Um

so yeah. No and that's actually a good

thing, right? that there's no extra

profits to like look for um so we don't

get confused.

>> Thank you.

>> Um I wanted to uh speak to what you guys

were talking about a second ago.

>> That was good. Um get that.

>> So as as Muslims, we would agree with

what you're saying about Jesus peace be

upon him not deifying himself. I feel

like throughout the

like is like uh the history of the the

children of prophet Abraham peace be

upon him. Um God is very clear about who

he is and who he is not and he does not

allow for um anyone to worship anything

other than him.

>> So Jesus um however

there is this challenge of like

there was a continuation but the Jewish

people they were killing their prophet.

They killed Zachariah. They killed they

tried they killed John the Baptist. Um

and then for Jesus peace be upon him

>> they they they constantly would either

kill or like

>> so how can there be like a contin

continuation if whenever

>> God sends messengers they are being

killed and um and then for Jesus peace

be upon him who um prophet Muhammad

peace be upon him he said I am the

prayer of my father Ibrahim Abraham I am

the good news of my brother Jesus and I

am the dream of my mother Amina

So um saying that to say that

just as the Christians do not just as

the Jewish do not accept the uh prophet

Jesus peace be upon him the Muslim you

the Christians do not accept prophet

Muhammad peace be upon him as a prophet

and um I believe it's clear that it's a

it's a continuation and also to just

answer the question I just wanted to

address that really quickly if you guys

want to chime in

>> and one more and to add to that too is

like we need we do need to acknowledge

the special station of the children of

Israel, right? for sure,

>> right? Moses having freed the children

of Israel from that the Pharaoh of that

time. Um that was a big deal obviously

right and um

the however the um and many of the

prophets come through the line of Issha

right um so there's like it's not to

like we have to remember that we're

related in a way right so um

the issue is that the children of Israel

were were repeatedly obstinate um and

like a bit and rebellious about the laws

or whatever rules and that's why another

prophet is sent and another prophet is

sent and another messenger is sent like

you know we're kind of hard-headed

[laughter]

and then also sent to different

>> right it shows God's love for for the

children of Israel

>> it shows God's love for the children of

Israel that he continued to send

messengers to guide

>> right

>> the the the the family of prophet

Abraham peace be upon him also the Quran

does say that God sent messengers to

every nation.

>> Exactly.

>> So

>> different times and periods.

>> Different times and different periods,

different places that God sends me

messenger sent messengers to every

nation

>> to every people, every nation. It does.

It does.

>> So that everybody, all mankind will know

that there is one God. And usually the

main message that is sent is to believe

in one God

>> and to know that there will be a day of

judgment.

>> Yes.

>> And to do good deeds.

>> Those are like the

>> And that there will be a day of

resurrection and there will be

accounting. Those are the major things.

So,

>> but according to the Quran, resurrection

is Jesus, correct?

>> No, no, no, no, no, no. Resurrection of

all peoples.

>> The resurrection, right? Yeah. Everybody

knows like on the day we die, we're in

the grave for a while and then there

will be a resurrection where everyone

will be called forth to God and

>> the trumpet will be blown. This is where

you might hear about the trumpet being

blown. I I cut you off. I'm so sorry.

>> Oh, no. I was just basically saying that

um God sent prophets to every nation um

messengers to every nation teaching them

about belief in God knowing that there

will be a day of judgment and doing

righteous deeds.

>> So thank you.

>> Hi loves. It's me again, Dr. Michelle

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next prompt is the Trinity is

polytheistic.

Three, two, one.

>> Oh,

>> okay. Christians, can people who reject

Jesus as divine still worship the same

God?

>> No.

>> No, they cannot. And I did I did want to

speak briefly to the to the prompt um

because just in research I find that um

I've heard that the trinity is quote

unquote polytheistic whereas we believe

it's one god expressed in three persons

and I do find it interesting that when

you say like for example like I know in

Islam you have the shahada strict

monotheism and you have that on paper

but in practice what I see is you see

there are sects of Islam that say that

the Quran is eternal. So if the Quran is

eternal, then that poses a problem for

strict monotheism because you have two

essences or beings that are eternal.

Allah is eternal and the Quran is

eternal. And then you look at how some

Muslims interact with the Quran. Some

believe that if you put the Quran on the

floor, that is a sin. There are some

nations that say if you burn it, that's

blasphemy. There are some that say if

you write in it, that's offensive. And

then you have the Cabba. Um, there are

some that visit visit the the Cabba and

they say, you know, we're going to kiss

this black stone because it can forgive

our sins and all these things. And I'm

I'm going to concede in just a second.

And and so you have that and then you

also have uh some sects of Islam that um

believe that Muhammad is an

intermediary. So you have the on paper

you have strict monotheism, but in

practice you have something different.

And I found something similar even with

Jewish practices because on paper it's

the shama instead of the shahada. here.

O Israel, the Lord, our God is one God.

But there are some that will take the

Torah when it comes into the synagogue.

They'll stand up. If it's desecrated,

they actually hold funerals for it. They

put crowns and and and certain things on

it.

>> But that's because it's a holy writing,

not because we think it's a a person.

>> But that's the that's the thing. Like on

paper it's a holy writing, but in

practice it's different. They visit the

hotel, the wall. Some Jews kiss the

wall. Um

>> that's part of the B. Yeah, but that's

part of the basic.

>> That's the point I'm making. I'm almost

done. I promise. and and even there are

some that uh maybe I guess mystical Jews

that maybe pray to angels. The point

that I'm trying to make is the Christian

on paper is a strict monotheist. And in

practice, we believe that the word of

God, if someone burned the Bible, that

would be tragic, but it's not blasphemy

because you can only blasphe God. We

believe that the word of God is a person

and his name is Jesus Christ. We believe

that like the prophet David says, "Do

not kiss the wall or the or the cube.

Kiss the son lest he be angry. Proverbs

uh or Psalms 2:12. And we do not have to

have anyone other than Jesus Christ to

pray to because he is our mediator.

>> Psalms 2:12.

>> It says Jesus Christ.

>> It says kiss the son. The point I'm

making is like we don't have to kiss. It

>> doesn't say Jesus Christ. It says the

sun

>> and the sun. Yeah. The kiss the sun lest

he be enemy.

>> And it does have to if it's no because

it affirms the trinity. So you can So I

don't think that you can practice

Judaism with intellectual honesty

without affirming the trinity. Even if

you don't believe that Jesus is the

Messiah, you have to deal with the fact

that the trinity is a very clear

principle in the Old Testament. Even in

Genesis 20:13 when Abraham is talking to

Limchc, I think is how you say his name.

Um, and he says, "They caused me to

wander." Elohim, halaku, not hale, but

halaku, which is the plural verb. They

cause me to wander. We see this again in

the Psalms 58:11 when it says that God

will come to judge the earth. It says

soapetim instead of soapet. They will

judge the earth versus he will judge the

earth. And then I don't think that's I

don't think the majestic clause necess

the um

>> majestic we is not something associated

with Judaism ancient Israel. That's a

later linguistic invention. So when you

see let us go down and make man in our

image, it's not a majestic thing. It's

God speaking in a plural form because

it's a trinitarian aspect. And I still

want to hear from both of you guys one

thing. Genesis 18. Who is he talking to

when he says, "Shall not the judge of

all the earth?" Do right. It's a

physical person that he's calling the

judge of all the earth. Who would you

guys

>> he's it he's standing next to him. He's

he's he physically sees him. Genesis 18.

There's three people. He bakes him a

cake.

>> That's a different story. When he when

he arrives at at their tent, this is

about Sadome Genesis.

>> When God and Abraham are talking, and

this is what makes Abraham a Jew, he

defies God and said, "Will the judge of

the whole earth not do justice?" Who is

he talking to? And it's a physical

person standing next to it's in the

text. Can I can I reiterate the text for

you? And if I'm wrong,

>> it's not a physical person, if I may.

Um, okay. I I want to go to your points

about the um as far as what Muslims do

like with our Quran and the Cabba. But

just to there's a verse um in the Quran

and I'm I'm paraphrasing, forgive me, I

believe it's in Bakar, but Allah tells

us um and they pretty much they go back

and forth about whether or not Abraham

or was it Issa but or whether if they go

back and forth about whether or not he

was Jew or Christian, but they read the

same book,

>> right? Like

>> so this is this is a age-old argument

you know that's one thing to think about

to go to your questions about like the

um like what do we do like if the Quran

is put on the floor yes that is sinful

um just because it's a holy revelation

we don't want to put our not in the on

the floor in the bathroom or any unclean

place we try to hold it up high as much

as possible even even there are some

um some practices where like if a woman

is on her menstrual cycle she wouldn't

touched a Quran a Arabic a completely

Arabic Quran. Not that you can't read

it, but you could read like in you could

read like on your tablet or something or

like in English or in another

translation, but not the Arabic cuz

that's like re revealed scripture like

hold it like you know sacred,

>> right? If you think of it as like God's

love letter to humanity,

>> it's like you want to respect it. You

wouldn't want to, you know, crumble it

up and throw it in the trash or

something outrageous.

>> The second I'm sorry.

>> Do you think that's deifying it if a

woman

>> No, we don't worship. We don't worship

the Quran, but we do definitely I mean

obviously we rever the Quran. We

actually wait a minute. We could say

that we use we use Quranic verses in our

prayers. So when we pray five times a

day, we recite directly from the Quran

whatever whatever we've memorized for

our prayers. So um but it's it is as a

recitation to worship the creator not

worshiping just like like not worshiping

the book.

>> There is a distinct separation within

Islam. I believe in Judaism as well that

there is a creator of all things and

then everything else is creation.

>> What does Islam teach about God's

oneness?

>> That makes it distinct from Jewish or

Christian understandings.

>> Okay. Sohed um is absolute indivisible

oneness of God. Right? We're not saying

that um God is necessar like well God

created everything but we're not so

we're not saying worship everything

though. Let's be clear about that. Um so

um

absolute oneness of the creator. God is

the creator. Everything else is the

creation. Um surah 42 ayat 11 it says

and there is nothing comparable like

there's nothing like god. Um surahlas

which is the last surah last no one

surah 112 um

say he is one

the absolute the eternal

he begets not nor is he begotten meaning

he is not um he was not born nor does he

has he a son right um

and there's nothing like compro there is

nothing like unto him you know um so the

essential and not only that in order to

even be Muslim you have to say

Muhammad soolah right there is no god

but the one god and Muhammad is the last

and final messenger you cannot we cannot

be Muslim until you admit that that's

why we say Islam is the emphatic

uh re like summation of what the

previous messages brought which is that

there is only one God and we really have

to revere our like because we can attach

our hearts to so many things, right? But

we really have to revere that the

emphatic confirmation of that is this is

why we have these continuations, right?

Right. Like summize in the Quran, right?

To remind people like so Islam

essentially everything is orienting the

Muslim. A Muslim is one who submits to

the will of God. when we say uh

you know when we say Islam we're saying

peace because you have submitted to the

will of God. So essentially all of our

orientation, all of our actions, all

that we do is to orient us to that one

to that utter reverence and oneness to

God, right? Like we we even ourselves,

right? Even our own personal desires and

and ego or the way we want to see things

and the way we want to do things like

no, God said do it like this,

>> you know? Um so

>> thank you. Yeah. So I just wanted to say

that I feel that um one thing that makes

>> um Islam distinct not necessarily from

Judaism because I think there monotheism

ted something that is like very much so

within the Jewish tradition but there is

no partners. God has no partners. Like

you cannot have two all powerful things,

right?

>> That if you had two all powerful things

and they were to go against each other

and then one of them

>> um you know didn't win then we would be

worshiping that that creator of all

thing that most all powerful um

beginning the end alpha omega all of

those kind of things. And also this um

this the verse the chapter that you

quoted um in the Quran themed

um is say Allah is one and um he is als

that nothing is that everything is in

need of him for everything and he is in

need of nothing for anything

>> and he does not he does not sleep. He

does not eat. He is completely

self-sufficient in and of himself and

everything else is dependent upon him.

>> In Judaism, how is Jesus viewed in

relation to God's plan or story for

humanity?

>> Um, in Judaism, like Ra explained

before, he's viewed as a orthodox Jewish

human being. He's not, we don't view

Jesus as a uh as anything godly or like

a deity.

>> Messiah. What about Messiah?

>> Messiah's that's different. Um he's not

Can you maybe you can explain that a

little bit more?

>> He's neither a god nor a messiah. Uh

because he did not fulfill messianic.

>> Oh meaning you're asking if Jesus is a

messiah if you got

>> neither god neither um Jesus is not a

messiah either.

>> And I will say also 10 seconds I

promise. Um in terms of Jew of the world

we actually believe that Jesus

fulfilled some kind of godly mission by

bringing billions of people to the Bible

and spreading this knowledge of Messiah.

But and this is important in the Jewish

history. It has brought us and and we

have a beautiful relationship now, but

it was 2,000 years really of persecution

where Jews shared the Torah with the

world and the well with Christians and

then Christians kind of took the Torah

and used it against Jews and said you

must worship this man when we had been

learning for you know more than a

thousand years that you can't. So it did

cause us a lot of heartbreak and at the

same time Jesus brought you know

billions of people to the Bible. I have

a question like so even with all of the

miracles that Jesus peace be upon him

did why wouldn't he be able to have the

title as Messiah within the Jewish

tradition

>> um

uh death will be swallowed up forever

didn't happen uh world peace didn't

happen the Jews are not collected back

to Israel didn't happen um

>> right there are so many things we need

that that Jews believe that we need in

order for Msiah to come

>> so what do you do with the miracles

>> they happen

>> and the resurrection we don't believe in

the testament Yeah, we don't believe in

that.

>> You just don't.

>> The next prompt is people of other

faiths can still be saved. Three, two,

one.

>> Okay. So,

>> yeah. So, no, you can't you can't be

saved if you don't acknowledge Jesus

Christ as the Messiah because he does

deify himself. The last supper, he

deifies himself. When he says, "Take of

this bread. My body will be broken for

you. Drink of this blood. My blood is

what atones you. He calls himself the

savior essentially through through the

process of communion. Um and so if you

don't have a sacrifice and an atoner for

your sin, you will constantly be in this

workbased cycle. And so as believers, we

don't believe our own works get us to

heaven, but we believe that Jesus did

the final work on the cross. And I don't

even know how that is uh okay in Judaism

because you guys are making these claims

about the fact that God said says there

is only one God. So why doesn't the

entire world have to acknowledge Yahweh

to get to heaven?

>> I have a question. If somebody is like

on a mountain far away and they never

heard about Jesus, they never heard

about Abraham, peace be upon him, Jesus

peace be upon him, Moses, that person,

would they be responsible?

>> So Romans 1:19-20 says that God has made

himself plain in creation so that you

can look around the world and be able to

observe the truth of God. Um, I believe

that because God is sovereign and

because he has grace, he probably

extends or reveals himself to people in

some way. Maybe that's when they die,

maybe that's before. But I do believe

that everybody has an opportunity to

accept Jesus Christ.

>> I would definitely I agree 100% with

that. But as far as Jesus, peace be upon

him specifically because God definitely

reveals his perfection throughout nature

always.

>> Even Yeah,

>> I'll say something to that. So in Acts

17, it says that he's created every

person from one man, Adam. Um, and he's

given them their pre-appointed

boundaries and their dwelling p places

so that they would grope for him, reach

for him, search for him, though he's not

far from any one of them. So, this is

very comforting to me because it doesn't

matter if you were born in 1800s or

2,000 years ago, you have the

opportunity to be saved. And the idea is

that God obviously being omnisient, he

can see our hearts. He can see those

that are searching. I've seen Muslims

come to Jesus Christ through dreams.

They don't they they didn't know who

Jesus Christ is. So we can't limit the

way God would reach someone, but the

foundation is still true that you must

accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and

Savior to be accepted into heaven.

>> You two had different answers though. So

why did you have a different Let's

finish. Were they different?

>> Yeah, you're you're

so wrong. Okay.

>> No, we both Yeah, we're both

>> Everyone can be saved is what?

>> Oh, no.

>> Oh, I was the wrong way.

>> She went I think so. Yeah.

>> Oh, you were saying you can't be saved.

>> No, anyone can be saved if they believe

if they accept Christ. Right.

>> So the So this was the prompt. The

prompt is people of other faiths can

still be saved.

>> Oh, I Oh, you know what? I don't

understand the question. That's my

problem. So you're saying like if they

stay in their position, can they still

Oh, no, no, no. If you stay in your

position, then you are denying God's

revelation about the way to be saved. I

believe that um the Passover lamb was a

foreshadowing of Jesus Christ. The

Passover lamb is described in Exodus 12.

It says, "Get a lamb. Don't break any of

his bones." He has to be male. He has to

be without blemish. Then you fast

forward to the New Testament. Jesus

Christ calls himself the lamb of God.

Not just because it's a cute name

because he's telling you who he is. He

was never he was without sin. He didn't

and no bones were broken. He was the the

ultimate sacrifice for our sins. So if

you stay in your position, then no,

you're rejecting the the the saving

grace of God. But if you receive Christ

is what I thought the question was

asking, then you can be saved.

>> Can I respond? Uh I'm going to end off

this thought with a question. Um, in

Judaism, God is not here for us. We

don't do things so that God will save

us. It's the opposite way around. That's

why when people don't have a mission or

a purpose in their life, they get very

depressed because that is the meaning of

life. We are here for God. We are, by

the way, heaven, hell is really not

mentioned at all. No one really cares in

Judaism. I've had this conversation

maybe once in my life. We're very much

focused on making this world a place and

a home for God. It's called a

deeronimum, a home for God in this

world. Um, that's number one. Again, we

don't look at God as you are my way into

salvation. It is the complete opposite.

Back to revelation, God reveals so that

we fulfill what he wants. I don't give a

crap where I go. I want to bring God

into this world more than anything. Um

the other thing I will say is is Mahatma

Gandhi in hell because he was a Hindu.

>> If anyone is not in Christ, they

rejected the way.

>> So Mahatma Gandhi who spent his whole

life doing goodness is in hell.

>> Good by what standard? That's a problem.

people moral morality act behaving uh

behaving morally with a wicked heart

does not get you into heaven

>> because he wasn't a Christian no because

he was a racist and there are other

controversy

>> so let's find let's find I didn't know

he was let's find someone else

>> but that's no that's the very point that

is the very point

you're both talking

then you stop talking so she can answer

your question okay but you answer you

stop [clears throat] talking so she can

answer your You asked the question,

she's answering it.

>> I thought you answered it. Sorry.

>> So the point about Gandhi is a very good

point because this is the point that

somebody can appear morally and they can

do good things and yet inwardly they can

be far from God. They could even be

doing good things with good with bad

intentions. A lot of people give to

charity because it helps them clear

their conscience because it makes them

feel better. And so God knowing the

inward appearance of our heart, knowing

that we're wicked. Psalm says that our

righteousness is like filthy rags. Our

good works cannot get us into heaven

because a lot of the times our heart

posture is not there.

>> Yeah. I just wanted to add really

quickly. Um there was a a companion,

Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was

telling his companions that

>> um no one will enter paradise except by

God's mercy.

>> And he was like, "Even you, oh prophet."

He said, "Even me." And um and that just

goes to show that it's not like yes, we

want to do good, but ultimately

also going back to what you were talking

about about purpose. Um the Quran says

clearly that Allah created human beings

to worship him. And this word that is

used for worship, when you look at like

the essential meaning, it can mean to

worship. And it also can mean to adore

that we were created to adore God. Not

necessarily like, oh, I'm afraid I'm

going to go to hell, so I'm going to

worship him. or oh I really want to go

to heaven making idols out of those

things too but just um to present

yourself before God as someone who is

witnessing his be his beauty and his

majesty all of all of the time.

>> So in your faith do you believe that

good deeds are necessary for salvation

because you did bring up good deeds a

few times. So deeds. Okay. So yeah, most

def most definitely good deeds are

important. Faith without works is dead.

>> And also the Quran says this

um

by time

surely man is at loss.

Um except for those who do good who

believe and do good deeds and urge one

another to truth and urge one another to

perseverance, right?

>> Good deeds are like and good deeds are

what are going to be weighed a part of

our judgment, right? You're going to we

we believe on the day of judgment you

will receive your book of your of your

life essentially um in your right or

your left hand. If you receive it in

your right hand, this means that you did

a lot of good work, right? And that work

was preserved. Um so good deeds are

definitely very important. However, I

mean the also the examining of our life

and the examining of our intentions. The

prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam tells

us that actions are uh based upon

intentions. Right? So let's say you

could be a very charitable person. You

could be a very you know building

hospitals. You could be doing helping a

whole bunch of people. However, what's

your intention by it? Right? So

preservation of our good deeds is really

important because if we did these things

for the glory and the large of of God

then sincerely as best of our ability

then that's awesome. But if you did it

for like show and so people could say oh

yeah you're really generous. Oh yeah

you're famous. Oh yeah you're really

intelligent. Um then you really did it

for that you know.

>> I feel like so much of what you guys are

sharing is informed by the gospel which

is cool. Here you go. And I have a

question um just based on salvation. Um

I know there's a verse in the Quran is

surah 4 157 I think it is and it says um

and boasting it's attributing a

statement to the Jews. So I'd like to

hear from both sides. It says in

boasting they said we have killed the

Messiah son of Mary messenger of Allah.

Um but they did not kill him. Allah only

made it to appear so. So my question is

like historically you guys study the

Tanakh and the Torah. Is there any time

at any point in history where there was

a statement that could have been made by

the Jews that would have acknowledged

that they killed the Messiah? Because

the Quran states that that is something

that the Jews said. So I'm just curious

because I know that you guys don't

acknowledge him as the Messiah. And

secondly, I've always wanted to know

like if Jesus was not not crucified and

it was only made to appear so, how does

that align with a loving God? How does

that make Allah loving if he knows that

as a result of this crucifixion,

billions of people are going to put

their faith and trust in Jesus Christ,

but they are in a deception? And then

the verse 159 goes on to say, and then

um that Issa is going to judge um be a

witness to them against them in the day

of judgment. So it's like, how does that

align with a loving God if he only made

it to appear like he was crucified?

>> Why deceive so many people?

>> It's not it's not a deception. So I

remember when I first became Muslim and

I heard this, I was like, he didn't die

on the cross. What are you talking

about? Right. Um, we believe that Jesus

was switched honestly um with another

person. The go I don't know if you

listen to the Gospel of Barnabas, but

they say that um possibly that it was

actually Judas that was um crucified

because he told the Roman soldiers where

Jesus was

>> and um that God saved him, that God was

like, "No, you're not going to harm one

of my beloved servants." So he removed

him from the situation and took him to

paradise.

>> But and then also suicide.

>> But sorry, go ahead.

>> But and also with Jesus, I mean Jesus is

a let's let's get it clear. Jesus is a

very special prophet and being period.

He's not like he's endowed with a lot of

supernatural like kamat or miracles.

Mhm.

>> So you're going to when we're talking

about him, it's like, well, how you he

like healed the, you know, healed the

leopard, walked on water, raised the

dead, you know, healed the blind, gave

life to the, you know, so we're not

trying to to diminish Jesus. We just we

don't worship Jesus, right? Um, so yeah,

so that's just a but it's just that

essentially that he was switched with

another person, but Jesus is to return

and we can get to that. Allah is okay

with that knowing that basically I'm

going to hell because he's he's

>> no no no everyone is guided was sent for

his time. Jesus was sent for that time.

So the people who existed during that

time we're supposed to follow Jesus

peace be upon him. However God sends

prophets to every nations every nation

and God sends prophets to every time. So

from as Muslims, we believe that Jesus

was sent for his time with his message

>> and that today the prophet for the the

end of time like the last prophet the

secret prophets for all of mankind

the mercy to the world is prophet

Muhammad peace be upon him and that does

mean that also that includes that Jesus

will come back in the end of time. Sarah

in the Quran chapter 47 Quran they

attribute a state statement of boasting

to the Jews and it says in boasting the

Jews said we have killed Jesus the

Messiah um prophet of Allah. Is there

anything historical that can affirm that

statement cuz to my understanding you

guys do not believe he's the but we also

don't believe that we killed him.

>> Right. So that's that that was what I

wanted to know.

>> Yeah. Correct. Yeah. I know there's

nothing that I know of unless you know.

>> How does one make it to heaven in your

religion?

>> Okay. um you do the best that you can,

good deeds, you do what God told you to

do and stay away from what he told you

not to do.

>> Um you try to keep your actions sincere

for him alone, but ultimately entry into

the into the Jenna or into paradise is

by the mercy of God, right? We can't

afford none of us can afford paradise,

right? Even if we lived like like the

most pristine life, none of us can

afford paradise. So we believe like you

have to like keep s keep sincerity in

your heart for God alone, right? Um and

and do and and keep consistent with

that. Let your actions follow up with

that. Keep up with your prayers because

we believe on the day of judgment the

first thing that you're going to be

judged on are your prayers, right? And

if they are um sufficient, then the rest

of your deeds should be sufficient. If

they are deficient, then the rest of

your deeds and actions will also reflect

that. And so you want to make sure that

you keep up with your prayers daily.

>> Yeah. And can I add to Assaj? I wanted

to add as well. Thank you. That was

beautiful. Um um the the Quran also does

say that um if Allah wanted everybody to

be the same on one religion, he would

have made them the same. So um there is

this understanding that God gave us what

he gave us to to how do I explain it?

Like to manifest all of his majesty in

any way that he that he wanted that he

wanted. his attributes in whatever way

he wants. And um so for um Muslims,

you have to believe in the oneness of

God and you have to do good deeds.

>> Thank you.

>> Um in Judaism, uh this was the point I

was trying to make before. It doesn't

matter if you believe, it doesn't matter

how you feel. Um actually, you were

mentioning intentions. I would say most

of the horrible things that happened in

world history were done with good

intentions. So that's number one. Um, in

Judaism it's all about action. Which is

why I also think it's sad that, you

know, Christians kind of, you know, let

go of the law. It's not even law, it's

connection. But we'll get, we don't have

time for that. Um, it's all about

action. Which is why the Torah, which is

like this sublime book that has changed

the course of humanity forever, is

filled with the most practical these

sometimes very burdensome laws. How to

eat, how to sleep, how to uh be intimate

with your spouse, how to live as a

person. It is all about action pointing

towards morality. So when I was asking

you, you know, with in Christianity, I

as a Jew, I believe I'm a moral person.

I do not believe I believe Jesus was a a

rabbi that lived and died just like most

other people do. I find it, you know,

interesting that good people who just

don't have that belief in Jesus don't uh

they go to hell.

>> But in Judaism, so in Judaism,

>> you need only to be a good moral person.

Doesn't matter if you're a Muslim, a

Hindu, Buddhist, Jew, good person.

morality, you go to heaven,

>> right?

>> Did Did you want to say something to

that?

>> I was going to say also we as Jews, we

have like our like Jewish New Year yum

kipper where we have those days of

atonement where we pray for all the sins

that you know you Yes, we're supposed to

pray daily. That is a big part of our

religion. But we also have that day of

atonement where it's like, "All right,

God, I'm here."

>> You know, and and it goes, "Let's do I

forgot the English word for repentance.

Yeah, let's repent.

you know, and then it's kind of like,

all right, we washed it off. Let's start

again. Like

>> in the Jew Jews believe, which I mean,

Jews believe that God wants us to go to

heaven.

>> You know what I'm saying? Like that's

what we believe. There is also this

concept of um when somebody dies um we

um not sit, what's the word? When you're

in ais, we're in um a year of like um

mourning. Thank you. Mourning. Um, for

that person, it's for 11 months, not a

full year. Why? Because every person, no

matter how great they are, go through

this like process of like a real like

clean out, I guess. I don't know how

else to explain it, of their soul and of

their sins for that 11 months. And then

at the 11 month mark, no matter how bad

you were, you're going to heaven

>> like that. But you're in this um, from

what I've read and what I've heard, it's

kind of this like weird purgatory space.

You're not in hell, but you're not in

heaven either. And everyone goes through

it,

>> right? Islam it would be like a

>> right and everyone goes through that

process for 11 months and they say not a

year why 11 months not a year because we

want to hope that everyone's righteous

enough that they don't need a year and

that's it and that's and that's what we

and that's that's what we do as Jews.

>> Thank you.

Um, so I think we can all agree that

God's mercy is the key factor in getting

to heaven. And the Christian would just

say that his mercy, which we can't

dictate to him how he's going to show

it, was demonstrated by dying for us.

Like God loves us so much that he took

on flesh and said, "You guys are never

going to measure up." I I don't I think

the most people think it's arrogant for

me to say that I know I'm going to

heaven because I have Christ. But I

think it's arrogant to say you're a good

person because first of all you have to

define by which standard you're you're

good because there are some people like

you said Hitler thought it was good to

kill the Jews. They thought that they

were exterminating the worst people. So

it's like there's different subjective

standards but there there's an objective

standard that we never measure up to.

We're always going to fall short. We're

thou shalt not lie. How many lies do we

tell each day? We lie all the time. And

it's not just the Bible says in

Leviticus 17:11 that I've given you

blood to make atonement for your sins.

And if God doesn't change, you guys say

that, then what blood is going to atone

for our sins? That system didn't just

disappear. It would still be in place

because it's the old covenant or the the

permanent covenant. So the blood that

atones for our sins is the blood of the

holy God, the holy savior, Jesus Christ.

So the only way for us to get into

heaven or humans to get into heaven is

to understand we're not good people. We

always fall short. We always do things

that are offensive to God, but God is so

merciful that he sent us a life rope or

a rafter to pull us in. But we have to

actually accept that rafter. We can't

define it and say, "Well, God would

never come in on earth when he's done it

in Genesis 3, Genesis 18." He's come to

earth. He's he's told us this beforehand

so that we could accept him. Yeah. So,

Romans, which is in the New Testament,

Romans 9:10-9 says, um, if you confess

in your heart and believe if you confess

with your mouth and believe in your

heart that Jesus Christ is Lord, you

will be saved. I'm referencing a New

Testament passage because the New

Testament does have validity. It has

over 5,800 Greek manuscripts. We have

P-52, which is the papyrus of John's uh

gospel, and it matches up 99% with some

of the fragments. Um, we have the ouary

of Jesus's brothers James bones. We have

the bone box. Um, so there's a lot of

legitimacy to the text. And then I think

it's interesting that the Quran

incorporates so much of the inje kind of

denies like the validity of it. Um, but

yes, the New Testament is very clear

that the way to make it to heaven is

through salvation. in Jesus Christ

affirming that he is the son of God and

bowing down to him.

>> Thank you. And the next prompt is the

Messiah has already come.

>> Yes.

>> Okay.

>> Oh, you're paddle.

>> I put it I put it down because

[laughter] because um in our

understanding Jesus peace be upon him is

the Messiah

>> and that he is in paradise

>> waiting to come back to.

>> So it's like did he come back yet? I

don't know. I don't think so. No sir.

>> But um will he come back? Yes,

>> you can discuss.

>> So we believe that um Jesus Christ is

the Messiah that has been anointed to

set the captives free. Like the scroll

of Isaiah says, we believe that because

the Hebrew the Tanakh and the Torah

paint a picture of a suffering servant

that's going to suffer for the sins of

all humanity. Isaiah 53 says that in

verse 6 it says that all of us like

sheep have gone astray and we've all

turned aside to our own way. But the

Lord, it pleased the Lord to lay upon

him the sins of us all. So in that same

text, you see multiple references to

someone that's going to come and that's

going to suffer for humanity. And we see

that happening when Jesus Christ

literally died on the cross for the sins

of humanity. And it only makes sense in

the context of a good God. Because if if

Jesus Christ is God, that means he's

sinless and he can do what he wants in

in an attempt to redeem us. And what he

decided to do is demonstrate his love

for us on the cross.

>> Isaiah 53 is talking about the Jewish

people. And you can see that from Isaiah

44 where he literally says, "Yakob

Abdi." He says, "Jacob, my servant." And

he talks about them in a singular form

and it continues on until chapter 53. Uh

in chapter 53, he's talking about the

Jews who uh are a an ambassador of God.

We we're not we don't own the Torah.

We're a channel for uh the Torah to give

it to the world or looim a light unto

the nation. And when the world is

particularly evil, the people who suffer

first are Jews. Um I believe we're

seeing this right now with uh what's

happening in Israel. We saw it with the

Nazis. Um no nation has been persecuted

like the Jews have because we represent

morality. We don't own it. We are just a

channel for it. Um Isaiah is very

clearly talking about the Jewish people

even though it's in the singular form.

So, I'm going to answer the question.

Um, Messiah has not come yet because

>> none of the uh it could be none of the

signs have really happened yet. Um, and

um, it could be that we're I believe

we're in the birth panges of Msiah.

There's this concept in Judaism called

the birth panges. You know, I just had a

baby a few months ago. It's horrible.

Congratulations. Thank you. [laughter]

>> My mom is watching him right now and my

husband. Um, and it could be that we're

in the in the birth panges of Msiah,

which is why the world is so chaotic.

But I would say almost none of the

messianic prophecies have come true.

>> Um, okay. I I um

so again uh Jesus is to return and to

destroy what we call the edel, what

would translate to the Christian faith

as as the antichrist. Um and re and also

prepare the people for the day of

judgment. Um we are in the like we would

say that the the our prophet uh taught

us that the at the gel um he's he's the

prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam said

I will tell you something that none of

the other prophets told you about him is

that he has one eye right not that he

literally is like a cyclops but like

that he has like one eye that is like

more bulging than the other um

the so that's like we need to talk about

that and the fact that Jesus is to

return to um establish a certain kind of

uh

correction of of error, right? Not that

he is to be worshiped, but um the the uh

the correction of like the for example

the his deification um and certain other

corruptions that have happened prior and

just to reset and reorient everybody to

day of judgment and that there is one

creator. Right.

>> So this is this is what you are saying

that in Islam this is the view of Jesus

in the end times.

>> Yes. the Islamic eschtology. I'm sorry

to clarify. So yes. Um so we're in we

believe we're in like some of the

pre-signs, but we believe that Djal is

an actual being. He will be very

powerful and he will also do a lot he

he's like a false messiah, right? A

false prophet. He's going to do a lot of

illusion and this is important for us to

talk about. Maybe you want to bring this

up at another time. He's going to

perform a lot of seemingly miracles and

he's going to tell a lot of illusions to

worship and he's going to tell people to

worship him. We [snorts] need to be

clear like that this is these are

tricks, right? Because we have to

because associating partners with God is

like the ultimate one of the like pretty

much the ultimate sin and you don't want

to fall into that error.

>> So we need to be clear about that. Go

ahead.

>> Okay. Yes. Go ahead. Yeah. So I would

say that the Isaiah 53 passage is very

clearly talking about a messiah. I don't

think that Israel can atone itself.

Obviously, as we've already discussed,

Israel is a stiff neck nation. They've

fallen into idolatry many times. And

like Majida so eloquently pointed out

earlier, they murder their prophets. And

so I don't necessarily know that you

guys would recognize the Messiah even if

there was a Messiah because the pattern

is killing any prophet that says not to

do a certain

>> You killed Moses.

>> You murder your I didn't say all of your

prophets. You just said all of your You

just said all of your

>> Okay, let me clarify. You murder your

prophets. All of your Please stop

cutting me off. Please communicating.

So you can respond to me, but don't cut

me off. Just said something not true

about respond to me when I'm done.

Please don't murder all of our prophets.

No, stop cutting off.

>> She can say she can rephrase it. She can

say

>> that's all I asked. I'm not fighting

with her. We don't kill all of our

prophets.

>> She spoke an error and now she's going

to rephrase it. You guys murder a lot of

your prophets.

>> So if there were a Messiah, I'm not sure

that you would necessarily have the

ability to know who that Messiah is.

That is that is the that is the primary

point. And I think that there are many

prophecies throughout the scriptures

that have been such as the virgin birth,

such as Jesus um getting on a donkey and

riding into Jerusalem. Um the the

destruction of the temple, his life,

death, and resurrection. You guys can

debate about the resurrection, but we

have an empty tomb. So, it's like where

is the body? Um I think there are many

prophecies that point to

>> So, for Christians, do you believe that

Jesus's first coming fulfilled all of

the messianic prophecies?

>> So, I believe that they he I sorry, let

me calm down real quick. I believe that

Jesus fulfilled the some of the

messianic prophecies in his first

coming, particularly those about us

reconciling us to to God. So I don't

think that you can deal with the

physical world until you deal with the

spiritual world. I think it's

interesting that there's con there's

this concept in Judaism of Jesus has to

come. He has to be a king. He has to

gather all the Israel to himself,

Israelis to himself, and everything has

to be perfect. But it's not going to be

perfect if Jesus doesn't first deal with

the sin issue. If God doesn't deal with

the sin issue, then all of that is going

to fall apart very quickly as we see in

Kings when God gives the nation a king

and the civiliz civilization very soonly

deteriorates. So I think that Jesus

dealt with the spiritual issue and when

he's coming back he's going to deal with

the the physical issue obviously world

peace and the things that are wrong in

our world. I love that you guys are

talking about the Antichrist because I

actually think that people who practice

Judaism are primed for him because you

guys want somebody to come and perfect

the world instead of dealing with the

sin issue in your hearts. And so that's

just that's kind of my prayer that like

your eyes will be open before that

point.

>> 10-second response. Uh we're not waiting

for anyone to come and perfect the

world. We want to perfect the world

ourselves. Like I said before, we do not

believe in a savior that will save us.

We believe in saving ourselves and we

earn Messiah. We earn Msiah. So we're

not waiting for anyone. It is us. We are

all before Mashiach comes. Mashiach is

the Hebrew for Messiah. We all become

our own Messiahs first. We do not have

human sacrifice in Judaism. It says that

clearly in the text in multiple multiple

areas. So just want to clarify that.

>> But you earlier said that the Messiah is

going to gather all of the

>> when we earn Msiah, right? But you still

have an expectation of world peace from

the Messiah. Of course, that's my point.

>> But that's through the law again. When

you have the Ten Commandments, you stop

killing each other. You're not allowed

to. You're not allowed to murder. You're

not allowed to steal. That is for us

human beings to create a dwelling for

God in this world. Messiah who will come

when the world is ready for him.

>> This is just a joke. We're from

Brooklyn. You didn't just refer to us as

Goyam. A couple of [laughter]

>> joking. He was calling us Goyam. I was

just joking. I just No. Wait. When did I

say No. More people. I'm just

joking.

>> Okay. Yeah. Well, some people don't

[laughter] joke about light unto the

world like

>> Goyam literally means nations. So I

quoted a verse the and the non-goy.

>> I don't believe in that.

>> So I have a question for you ladies.

>> Do you believe that the Messiah will

fulfill specific prophecies yet to come?

>> Absolutely. Do you want to go ahead?

Yeah.

>> No.

>> Um yeah, that's the the whole point is

that it's going to be like a a new

world. But again, the points that you're

making that Jews might not notice and

antichrist and all. No, like we have a

very clear like understanding of of

what's going to happen and exactly what

Ra said before, like with everything

going on in the world right now, that is

something that people are starting to

say like, wait, like maybe it's starting

to happen. Um, so yeah,

>> when I go to Walmart and I see

everything caged up,

>> yeah,

>> if the whole world kept the ten

commandments, they wouldn't have to cage

up a setaphil.

>> But how can we keep the ten

commandments? Like, is it going to be

like one day we all just like, "Oh, wow.

How do we stop killing each other?

>> Yes. How? Give me a like a practical way

that we we would stop killing each other

apart from what I suggest is a complete

heart change. Like how is that going to

happen?

>> To say something.

>> One of the

>> I I just have to say something.

Christians believe in original sin,

right? We're not going to go into the

whole thing. Judaism truly to the depths

of Judaism believes in original

greatness and original holiness. And so

yes, we are capable of being moral human

beings and stop killing each other and

stop stealing. It is absolutely

definitely um something we can do.

>> Not capable, but how do we get there?

>> Yeah. How do we get there practically? I

just I'm c I'm so curious to know.

>> That's a good question.

>> By being moral people. I don't

understand the question.

>> No. So,

>> do you steal? I'm guessing you don't

steal, right? You're doing it.

>> I could probably go and steal. This

could be my sister's sweater for you.

Even

>> that's not stealing. You're saying going

and stealing a centaphil?

>> But still, like the point is like how

like no one can ever answer this for me.

It's like, are we going to just wake up

and like, oh, the Torah, I'm gonna obey.

>> Judaism is called avoid. It's called

work. Which is why I think Judaism is

not a very popular religion. It is hard

work. It is toil. You need to struggle

with yourself every day to be a good

moral person.

>> Okay. You want to respond to

>> um Okay. Just your question as far as

about correction of yourself.

>> How can we reach this world peace like

practically like what

>> Okay. We believe in in in this world or

like as we say dunya like there

everything there will always be

imbalance because this is a a place of

like where we essentially we earn our

deeds. We earn we do what we're going to

do and then we're going to be judged on

the day of judgment. So we want as far

as world peace that we don't really

believe that that may happen here. But

as far as like working on yourself to

second what you're saying this is where

the confusion about the word jihad for

example comes. Jihad is usually is not

just some religious holy war and we want

to kill all the non-Muslims and all

that. No, jihad usually is referring to

the the struggle with the self to

correct and work and um adj and and

modify one's actions and deeds and um

just daily character, right? In order to

become a better person, you have to like

and and constantly referencing to as as

we as Muslims, Muslims meaning those who

submit to the will of God, submitting to

what God has told us to do, following

those instructions and and like repeat,

rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat,

making tab, repenting, rinse and repeat,

rinse and repeat. Like so that you after

a while after all that conditioning and

training like like working out, right?

You might be a little overweight, right?

you keep going to the gym, you're going

to, you know, [laughter] so

>> I love

>> So this is that's like

>> I believe that that not all Muslims

[laughter]

are representing the faith the way that

>> Oh, most definitely. I mean, we have,

you know, there's great Muslims and

there's Muslims who who do rob and steal

and do, you know, horrible things just

like every other religion.

>> In every religion, every

>> Exactly. So in your religion, how you

were talking about being morally right

and if everyone could just do the right

thing, then everything would be fine

because fundamentally it sounds like

there's just a difference in the way

that you think people began.

Why hasn't that been able to happen even

for people who are Jewish for them to

just do the right thing and be that

moral? Because we're still human beings.

>> So then I think that goes back to her

question,

>> how do you do it? Yeah. Like what is it?

And then it's so many practical

questions like how do we do it? Let's

say all of us in this world

spontaneously have world peace, how long

would it have to last? And is that how

is that attainable? What if someone

stops having peace for a second and they

go be jealous? Like how does that

address the heart? Like if I'm jealous

of you right now,

>> this goes back to um uh action over

emotion. In Judaism, we truly don't not

not care at all, but like you know,

you've read the the Torah. It's all

actionable commands. That's what

matters. If I'm very jealous of you and

I'm like, "Oh, I want that sweater so

bad." But that I don't steal your