Fact Check: Colonia Dignidad & Paul Schäfer – Peter Levenda's Story Examined

It's in a small town in the middle of nowhere in the Andes mountains. What could go

>> It'll be all right. It'll be fine. >> It'll be fine. So, I go and I I buy a bus ticket. Now,

I'm a New Yorker. I never learned to drive at this point,

okay? I take a bus wherever I public transportation. I'm not going to rent a

car. >> Look, we didn't know what gas cost. >> Well, exactly. No clue.

So, I go and I I get a bus to Parral, the town where this place is located. I get it I get there.

And I get off the bus. It's the middle of the night. It's like 4:00 in the morning. Freezing cold. It's

June, but you know, the seasons are reversed. And I'm wearing, you know, a trench

coat. Why? Cuz I want to be really visible, right? So, I'm wearing this really

visible obviously foreigner trench coat with the thing around belt, the whole nine yards.

And I'm just there. And it's quiet. It's deadly quiet. And then out of nowhere comes this guy

on a bicycle and a dog. And the dog is attached with a rope to his bicycle. And he bicycles over to me from like a

street from a corner. And I mean, it's it's so quiet. It's

it's there's no lights and everything. It's like a ghost town. And this guy comes out. He's wearing a

beret. He's like something out of a Fellini movie. What the hell is this? >> Are you thinking?

>> Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. You know, he doesn't look dangerous, but that dog, I don't know.

So, he he rides up to me and he asks me who I am and what am I doing. In Parral. Like, he didn't say what the are you

doing, but he said, "You know." And I said, "Well, the the train station was right there." I said, "I'm waiting

for that train." And he starts laughing. He says, "There hasn't been a train here in years."

>> Right. >> [laughter] >> Right.

>> Are you kidding me? >> So, plan B. >> Plan B, tell the truth.

>> Yep. >> I'm here to see Colonia Dignidad. And he says, "Are you Are you out of

your mind? >> Of course. >> You better just wait for the train.

>> [laughter] >> You'd have more luck there. You're not going to No, you don't want to do that.

>> Did you tell him I'm a writer? I'm looking into this. >> Yeah, I didn't go into all the

explanation because my Spanish at the time was pretty rusty. >> But he's saying "por que?"

>> Yeah, and I'm saying, you know, yeah, I'm doing research, you know. >> Yep.

>> So, okay. He says, uh, "Come with me." And I'm thinking, well, where? So, he goes to

his house. And his his he has this stunning wife sleeping and his kids. This is an old

grizzly guy and bicycle. And he says, "This is my wife." He's They're sleeping in bed, right? They

kind of wake up and look at me. "This is my These are my kids." >> [laughter]

>> Un placer. Can I say? So, then he leads me out of there and he says, "Come with me."

And I said, "Now where are we going, right?" And two guys walk up to us. They're

obviously carabineros. They're They're police army combination. >> They walk up to us and then he

introduces and he makes the introductions and he says he wants to go to Colonia Dignidad. Predictably, they

laugh. Then they say, "Come on, come with us." We go to this hut, you know, and we walk

into this hut and we're sitting there and they bring out the aguardiente. Now, aguardiente is rotgut, basically.

It's homemade It's like moonshine. >> Right. >> Yeah.

And there's like grapes in it and everything else at the bottom and it's really strong stuff. And we're going to

sit there and drink until the sun comes up. >> Yes, you are. You have to.

>> What are you going to do? And then they start opening up. You don't want to go up there. It's like

they have their own embassy up there. These are not people from Chile. They don't obey our laws.

They're dangerous. Okay? And they said, "Besides, they're heavily

funded. Every week a car comes down from Chile, a Mercedes, they were very

pointing that out. >> Yep. >> And they go to the bank to they go to

the post office first. They get a bunch of envelopes. And then they go to the bank and they take money out of the

envelopes or checks or whatever and they deposit it into the account for the Colonia. They said they're getting money

from overseas, from every country. He says from Europe, from the United States, every place.

>> Sure. >> He says they've got this funding. They're very dangerous, but they have a

clinic. And that little clinic is open to people from Chile for free.

>> Really? >> He says, but we don't want to go there unless we we really have to because

sometimes we don't come back. >> They said that? >> that. They said we've lost children

mostly up there. They said so we you cannot you really should not go. It's not safe for

anybody. It's not safe for us. >> Why do they lose children? I mean, is it that dark?

>> Well, yeah. As it turns out. >> Trafficking?

>> Trafficking. >> Yep. >> And and the the

the leader uh of whose name was Paul Schäfer, oddly

enough. Which confuses with the band leader at Letterman show. But anyway,

he was a he was evidently a pedophile. That's what really came out about that later.

>> And US Embassy is aware of all of this. >> Of course. >> All of this.

>> You you can say so, yes. As as we found out more as more time went on. But at that time, what do I know, right? So,

I'm thinking, okay, I came this far. I'm going to go. I don't give a right? So,

I find a driver. The It's Sunday morning. The church is going to open. Dawn is breaking, you

know. Uh the birds are singing and there's this

>> is pounding. >> Yeah. >> [laughter]

>> Oh, yeah. And there's this the driver, you know, there's the for hire a car. It's an old

old Chevy, you know. And I say, look, um I'm looking for someone to take me to Colonia Dignidad.

And he looks at me, Colonia Dignidad? I says, yeah. He says, bueno, bueno, vamos. You know,

he didn't care. He says, come on in. So, I sit up in front with him, you know. And we drive up

to the colony. He's telling me his stories about the colony. >> What does he hear? Cuz it's it's local

legend, no? >> Local legend. >> Yes, it's Nazis.

>> You know, it's Nazis. >> He flat out said it? >> came out and said it's Nazis.

>> Was he the first one to say that word? >> I think he's the first one to say Nazis. >> Okay.

>> The others were saying Germans, they were saying evil, they were saying this, they were saying that.

Uh they were saying they don't use the same religion we have, they're not Catholic, right? That was a big deal,

they were not Catholic. >> Right. They talk around it. >> They talk around it, but they don't

really get there. >> Right. >> So, this guy is, you know, he's having a

great time. It's Sunday morning, he's making money more than he probably ever made in a week

cuz I agreed to whatever he wanted to you know, so we're driving up and we pass, you know, basically gauchos, guys

on the horseback with the hats and everything. That's what they're coming down the road. [laughter]

And it's a dirt road going up and we I realize we're getting really, really remote. Then we pass by a place called

Colonia Italiana, which is like the first place you get to before you get to

Colonia Dignidad. And I said, "Colonia Italiana?" He says, "Yes, you know, Italian." And it was kind of poor and

run-down, and I said, "Uh okay. An Italian colony, now the German colony." Sure. "Okay, all right."

So, we get to the German colony and it's quiet. There's a gate and it's open,

>> What does it look like? Does it look like German architecture? >> Not yet.

>> Okay. >> We cross over a little bridge, a little tiny like pointless kind of

looking bridge. There's a gate that's wide open. We drive to this like gravel uh parking lot, but there's nothing in

there's no cars parked there, we're the only ones. And there's a building there that seems to be like a maybe a um

a guardhouse maybe or something like that. It's it's a large enough building, it could be for meetings or something or

maybe for dealing with the press. I mean, I don't know, it's just a building.

Uh no sign on it that I could see. I walk up to the building and I hear voices on the other side of the

building. And it seems like they're talking on a radio.

>> Can you Do you hear the language >> No, it's it's it's German. >> So, it's German.

>> Yeah, for sure. So, I said, "Okay. Uh I took a bunch of pictures. I got into the car and I said, "Okay, let's go.

I just want to take pictures." I said, "Let's let's get out of here." >> Yep.

>> He says, "Okay with me." >> Yep. >> And as we're pulling out, that's when

the Mercedes, the the mysterious Mercedes pulls out, the gates close, Mercedes blocks our way of getting out,

and two really big guys get out of the Mercedes. >> Oh, no.

>> And they stand on either side of the car, just looking, not saying, not speaking.

>> Big blond guys. >> Yeah. >> Big big

>> Blond, heavy set. >> Yep. >> Wrestler types.

>> Yep. >> On either side of the car. And I'm looking at each and my driver

all he can say is uh-oh. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Over and over again. I wanted him

to stop saying >> He kept saying it. >> But he was he was pretty frightened at

what was happening. This this isn't good, right? >> Were you?

>> The funny thing is a kind of switch went off in my head that said, keep your cool, we got to get out of this.

>> Okay. >> Do not freak out, right? It was a kind of something took over that said, just

brass it out, right? >> Man, you're no armchair researcher, man. >> This is balls of steel now. This is

>> This is balls of steel. This is real real stuff. >> Stupidity of steel.

>> Yes. >> And as I'm sitting there, I hear someone's running at the car and I'm

thinking, and it's somebody's out of breath and he's wearing a lab coat. >> What?

>> Yeah. [laughter] A lab coat. That's all I needed to see, you know? So, is it safe? So, I don't you know,

I'm just flashing on movies. >> Sure. >> Marathon Man.

>> Oh, yes. >> So, here's a guy in a lab coat

and he knocks on the window, tells me to roll down the window, which I had rolled up. So, I roll down the window.

>> Yes. >> And he looks at me and he says the classic line that I've waited my entire

life to hear since Casablanca. Your papers, please. >> No.

>> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Exactly those words in that tone.

Your papers, please. How wonderful was that moment, you know? >> Fear and joy fighting.

>> Fighting. >> [laughter] >> So, he's looking like you better hand me

your passport or we're going to get it. >> Mhm. >> So, I took out my passport and I handed

it to him. And he walked away with it. Right? Which is a sinking feeling for

any >> Sure. Like What what what? >> What?

That's happened to me a number of times since, but not as bad as this. So, this was, you

know, when am I getting it back? No one's talking. And then, who shows up but Paul Schäfer

himself, the leader. The leader stands behind the car like he doesn't

want to be seen, but he's wearing a Sam Browne belt. He has the military

jacket on, the the whole uniform, and he's got it like a fatigue campaign cap on his head, and he's

you know, hands on the hips like this, you know? And he's barking questions in German to this person who's then

translating it into English, because I refused to speak Spanish under the circumstances.

My Spanish being not good enough to negotiate for my life. >> Fair enough.

>> I make a a grammatical error, I could be doomed, [laughter] right? So,

>> that point, you could probably hear a little pick up a little German >> I could pick up the German, yes.

>> So, you're catching words. >> Oh, of course, right. Not enough that I could speak. So, I'm listening to that

go on, and so they're translating for me. Why are you here? Right? I'm here researching German

immigration to South America. That got a huge laugh out of Schäfer, right? Yeah, he's basically

he's saying. >> Of course. >> And he's yep, yeah, okay, that's not it.

Okay, next question. When did you arrive here? Right?

Kind of give them basically when I got here. At the same time they're talking to me,

they're talking to the driver. They're asking him more pointed questions. How many of them are there?

When did they arrive? Where are they living? >> Did they pull you out of the car

separate? >> No, we're still in the car. >> Okay.

>> I still feel safe. I'm still in the car. I don't have a passport. >> Nope.

>> And I can't get out, but I'm still safer. So,

they're asking him these very pointed questions. And finally, in the Spanish, and I can understand perfectly what

they're asking him. And then they ask him, they say this one thing, we have to be careful of the of the Jews. There's a

lot of Jews these days, they're around, and we have to be very careful. >> What an odd thing to say, no?

>> It was odd until just a couple of years ago So found out what that meant. I only found

out recently what that really meant. But at the time I thought they must think I'm some kind

of an Israeli commando. >> Do you want want to tell us what that >> This was an Israeli commando.

>> Right. >> If you can see me, no, this is not what an Israeli commando looks like. And I

was in my 20s at the time. You can imagine, 120 lb, no, not a commando. >> But are they also worried about Mossad,

Nazi hunters, all of that? >> All of that. >> Okay.

>> Of course. Yeah. Nazi hunters for sure, as I found out later.

But again, at later At this time I'm going on Ladislas Farago's book. That's all I got.

>> That's all you got, right? >> So the rest of it I don't know. So I'm there and they're talking back

and forth to me, back and forth. They come back and they hand me the passport, thank God.

But they tell me a very strange thing. They say to me, "You're no longer welcome in this

country. You must leave immediately, go back to the United States and do not come back

again." People who are Germans in Chile telling me I'm not welcome in Chile.

Not welcome here at Colonia Dignidad. No problem, I won't be back. But telling me, "No, we don't want you

in Chile." >> But you don't say, "You don't have jurisdiction."

>> Yeah, sure I'm going to say that. You have my jurisdiction, right? >> You say, "Okay."

>> Okay. No worries. Remember I had the driver as well. They pull me out and kill me, he's a dead

dead gone. He's the he's the witness. >> For sure. >> That's not going to happen, right? We we

cannot fight with these guys. So all right, the car pulls away, the gate opens.

We hit the road. My driver starts laughing uncontrollably. He says, "Oh my God, you

don't know what danger we were in. We got out of there, you are so lucky." He says, "This is this could have turned

out so" He's just like laughing the whole way down. He can't believe The relief was incredible. Incredible.

He gets back into Parral, into the town. He wants to tell everybody what happened.

>> he has got to tell somebody. >> And I pay him like I forget how much money. He must have made $100 that day.

And then >> Are you relieved as well? You just wanted your your passport back.

>> my passport back. I'm okay. >> Right. >> I don't know if I'm getting out of the

country. Quite frankly. >> Still? >> Well, I don't know what's what's going

on here with these guys. How can they tell me I'm not welcome? What influence do they have over the

border patrol? >> But you felt they had it. >> I felt they had it because what happens

next, two more Carabineros walk up to me, two more cops. And they say, "Are you the guy that

>> [laughter] >> And I said, "Yeah." "Is your name Peter Levenda?"

Oh, How do you have my name? >> Yeah. >> Right? Can we see your passport? I show

them the passport. They look at each other. Okay. "Are you going back now to Santiago?"

You bet your sweet ass I am. So, okay, I waited for the bus as usual cuz I'm a New Yorker. I take the bus.

I got on the bus and I'm going back to Santiago. And halfway up like not halfway,

twice on the way up, so I guess every third of the way up, the bus is stopped. That didn't happen

on the way down. And troops come onto the bus asking for me by name.

>> Oh, no. >> To make sure I'm on the bus. >> Oh.

>> That freaked me out. >> That did. >> Yeah. That That means yes, they have

that clout. They could tell the Chilean military and the Chilean army, right?

"Look out for this guy. Make sure he leaves the country." >> Yep.

>> So, I get back to Santiago. I get back to my room in the hotel there.

I open the door and there's a note. "Your reservation is confirmed." >> [laughter]

>> You're going. >> So, they got me they got LAN Chile to make sure they controlled that as well.

>> That was a clip from the basement. The full conversation's on the main channel. Link's down below somewhere. I never

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