Optimizing Team Compositions for Competitive Play

good at a composition and you're so good at it that they have to ban it or else they're just going to lose does that

make sense yeah yeah 100% yeah so the logic should be that you want to have probably around three comps that you

really really really really really good at and hopefully comps that don't have a lot of overlap so let's say for example

that you're really good at this one comp that has Luna then you're really good at this other comp that has neyar as like a

carrye if they just ban a Luna then both of those characters are kind of off the table you know so you don't want to have

comps with too much overlap but just you want your comps to be a little bit modular like you want to be able to swap

characters in and out um as best as you can okay um so are these the comps do you guys have practiced like I'm not

sure how long you guys have been playing together you guys are a fairly new team right yeah like basically last Wednesday

hob said you want to make a team and like okay or maybe it two month ago so like we're pretty now so are these the

comps that you guys are currently testing yeah these are kind of like the main three I've been telling them that

we should limit to just a couple and just really focus on working together rather than like have a thousand

different comps that we're just jump into but so there's already some stuff that we're going to adjust probably okay

for like long-term success so let's look at uh the first comp with the dive so when you're playing uh venom Spidey I

think Spidey is the epitome of like a specialized character okay he's not necessarily [ __ ] but he's kind of [ __ ]

you know it's like if you're really really really really good with him you can sort of make him work but I think

that it's very important for you to probably not have Luna in that comp or if you're going to have Luna in that

comp comp you need to be banning Ney more um because you want you want to like have bans that justify the comp

that you're playing what are you saying in the notes what' you say I'm just I'm telling Thumper to put what you're

saying in the notes yeah up a go do for that I'm going to record this for us yeah so the the the thought process is

right is that um if you're playing a composition like this that wants to trade back lines and wants to go very

very aggressively that's good but then there's some like not so great synergies here at the same time right so right now

we have pitched on mantis and mantis is probably okay but mantis in my opinion has not actually seen that much play

time in Super High ELO um mantis has fallen off a little bit I think mantis really shines in a theoretical uh

perspective from taking like really aggressive off angles and stuff but I feel like um mantis just hasn't been as

dominant as she used to feel so a lot of people have not really been playing for the damage boost and people have been

more so playing for like just longer lasting ultimates like ASU or um like a clo and Dagger possibly okay um so in

this comp I think uh mantis is probably okay but there's another thing here that's a little bit weird which is uh

Punisher Punisher here is kind of strange because you don't have rocket team up you're not playing a comp that

wants to stand still and play slow so why play a character like Punisher who is the epitome of like a slow character

he doesn't really play very fast right um now maybe you could come up with a new meta where you actually trade back

Lines by grappling in every time that sounds kind of sounds kind of scary but honestly you might be able to make it

work almost like a so slide right if we really think about it um but I don't really think he synergizes well with his

composition I would much rather have like maybe a magic or something of that nature uh or like maybe a black panther

or something okay um but yeah I think the Venom mag those two characters are actually really good does anybody know

why those characters are good together it's so you can bubble the Venom when they go yeah you can bubble the Venom or

you can bubble other DPS as well like especially magic I think with bubble gets us like a [ __ ] ton of value Spidey

a lot of times doesn't necessarily need bubble cuz he's not really like that slow he's very hard to hit just in

general right Magic on the other hand is kind of slow when she's engaging on people can be a little bit hard to stay

alive especially against Cc or against like a Bucky hook or something like that so for example if I was playing against

your guys's composition I would probably play Bucky or I would play Loki or I would play um maybe like a Punisher comp

that's really really stable with like an adom or something or I would play something like a neyar okay and so these

characters that I'm rattling off these are characters that do well against Dive Right like Bucky has CC

neyar obviously has CC as well as just a lot of guaranteed damage on Fast targets where his turrets are not going to miss

CU they have Aimbot um characters like Adam are good at absorbing with uh their um Soul link and then you could have

Punisher with like rocket Z or something that just like shoots your Venom once he uses his cycle so when you're playing

dive it's a very skill expressive composition does that make sense like it's going to take a lot of practice if

you guys want to put time into it you can but I would probably recommend at this stage to get comfortable with sort

of more default more standard comps think of like your think of it almost like playing

um like a Sig soge or something just something that's like very classic very default very basic you know and get like

very comfortable at playing a comp like that and then you can maybe expand into more specialized stuff later okay um

let's look at your Rush comp which is basically your brawl comp I guess so off the bat um the Groot and the Thor not

making a lot of sense to me does anybody know why yeah I'm not sure why we put the

Thor in here I feel like it was supposed to be Magneto at one point yeah I think Mag would make a lot more sense for sure

I think strange could also probably work too I don't think strange would be bad either I think strange and mager are

like typically very um you know inter flexible picks I wouldn't say interchangeable I think they're actually

very different but they're both very flexible you can kind of slot them into a lot of different compositions but I

think like Magneto is really really really good with tanks where like they he gets high bubble value so if you play

like a Magneto Thor comp that makes like a decent amount of sense because I feel like they have good Synergy doesn't mean

Thor is that great of a character um I guess it really depends on the bands but um something you could try

here if you really want to play a Loki comp is you could play something like mag Thor Hela and then you have triple

team up with Loki and Hela and Thor and that could be something that you angle towards but is that going to be that

strong as a default maybe not right but it's an option if the bands lead you into something like that so let's say

for example that you go into a match and you end up Banning strange right or the enemy team ends up Banning strange um

then that means that Magneto's still open but you're going to have to fill that strange slot with some sort of kind

of more off meta specialist tank so you could choose to fill it with a Groot or a Thor or a Hulk or a Venom like you can

you can angle more towards dive you can angle more towards like really hard brawl with uh Groot or you can angle

towards something like Thor and then just slot in hella Loki and you have like a comp that you've created you know

so um here obviously I can tell what you guys are doing with the moonight Groot you're going for the the Synergy with

the comp and stuff which is pretty great I think Magneto's really good there as well starlord to me is a little bit

strange in this composition um I'm not entirely sure what the star-lords meant to do here that other characters can't

do better um so I feel like this is a composition where you can maybe even benefit from just playing uh triple

support as well would probably be fine um but I also think that here instead of it being a

um uh instead of it being a Star-Lord you can maybe play a character that plays a bit slower in my opinion this

comp doesn't actually play very fast you guys are yeah it's like I feel like this comp

kind of just plays sort of slow and just tries to either win with Frontline trades or it goes for like a really

really big old cycle so you could lean more into the ultimates and playing Slowly by swapping to a support or you

could swap that support to a slower value DPS so that it could be like a Hela let's say or it could be a storm or

it could be you know any number of things okay does that make sense there's a lot of flexibility in this game and

people are still trying to figure out what the hell they're doing um so yeah I think the reason why we had the stal was

so that the Loki could either if we have the gudo up they could go to the starlord and copy the starlord and get

value off that I think it was a hero pool uh restriction but does does Star-Lord well first of all Star-Lord

into grud old is not guaranteed to get kills MH and secondly right um Star-Lord old like Loki copying stord is probably

objectively less value considering there's stuff in the game that can counteract the starlord and also if your

Groot ults people they're all clumped in one group so if a strange just holds his shield or a MAG holds his shield above

you like he can't Target anyone else but the shield you know because you can't see the people in the grudle does that

make sense because they're all sted on the shield so I feel like that's kind of contradictory to like what starlord

would want to do you know um and typically loky dupe is not really used on DPS SS you can if it's a specific one

like something we did with one of my EU teams is we would play like Loki storm and we would copy our own um storm and

double storm to kill through like certain ultimates and something like that or like double COC ult right but

unless you're going for some sort of macro play like that I think usually you would just lowkey uh lowkey dup onto

like a a support you know it would be like a Luna preferably or like a sue those are probably two of the better

ultimates you can also lowy um your cloak and dagger but Magneto is clearly open in this comp which means that they

can be playing Magneto and you need to have Bubble saved for your cloak old so that you don't get one-shotted by mag

okay um triple support right here uh uh okay not bad I would give you a piece of advice I would get the Jeff out of

there cuz I'm not sure what he's doing there um Jeff's just not going to get you more value than a different

character now Jeff is actually playable Jeff is flanking not actually good that's that's that's actually good if if

you're going to play Jeff you should be flanking with him in my personal opinion I think he's just better as a flanker um

so I don't think that's too bad the only thing I would be cautious of is facing a dive comp is maybe a little bit scary so

Soldier and Punisher are not NE neily bad in the dive I think they're actually quite good but if your Jeff is actually

flanking in theory the best comp that they could have is a comp that plays really really really fast and Dives you

or crashes on you with six people so you're kind of down the Jeff during their engage and he's like probably full

behind the enemy team and obviously while your Jeff your Jeff has to get set up on his flank right and that's going

to take time to rotate so a smart team is going to crash on you during your Jeff's flank so your Jeff is kind of out

of the fight every time and the timing is a little bit awkward for your Jeff to actually shoot them does that make sense

mhm so it's something to be a little bit cautious of that's exactly what happened

actually oh really okay yeah that's that that's that's the way that I would coach a team to play against that you know so

I would just say hey let's just play like a really crazy aggressive dive comp let's go [ __ ] BP magic and Venom and

let's go like you know Luna with something else and just get the [ __ ] in you know just down okay well there you

go right um so I'm assuming that didn't work into them no okay cool had as well um and then for the for the dive comp

Let's see we have uh I think this like a basically same basically the same thing yeah no problem yeah so I'm noticing

some glaring uh absences of characters here that are very very very common in Hilo and are very abusable I'm not

seeing a wolverine comp and I'm not seeing storm at all and those are two of the probably the most popular bands in

higho right now in ranked and uh in scrims it's also very popular um to ban those characters so I would probably say

that you guys need to get like Wolverine developed a little bit for with at least one of your players and hopefully storm

developed as well or you need to start Banning those characters cuz you're going to get [ __ ] by them it's pretty

hard to play I play a bit of storm and Magic I need to learn them better I also have a friend who's a magic and storm

mean oh nice okay that's good so it you know give it some time and then I'm sure you'll have that down Wolverine though I

mean you guys can figure that out later but think Wolverine is very very good we pretty much always ban him yeah okay I

think that's fair I also think that you could there's ways to play around it it's just it's it's awkward for some

people to figure out because sometimes ma doesn't really click for them but you can play around Wolverine depending on

the map um a good way of thinking about Wolverine is he's almost like you you almost have to treat him like a Reaper

in OverWatch okay so Wolverine's not the kind of character who is Ever allowed to be out of cover the only time he's out

of cover is when he's like dashing and then grabbing somebody right so most good Wolverines are literally just going

to Camp a corner wait for you to come near them and then grab you if you don't go near him though can he he grab you

not really right so what he's going to have to do is he's either going to have to wait for you to walk there and you

can just not walk there or he's going to actually have to deepen his angle and start going towards you and like getting

closer and closer and closer he's able to grab you and then pull you back right um so I think that Wolverine is a little

bit of a skill check in this game where it's like how good are you at scouting Wolverine how good is your team at

scouting Wolverine how good are you at communicating where the Wolverine is Wolverine's left side okay let's walk

right side Wolverine right side okay let's walk left side stord I'm good at keeping track of Wolverine that's good

yeah but it should be a team effort like all six players should be looking for Wolverine because if we don't Scout him

you are dead before you can react it doesn't matter if you even have a MAG bubble you're probably still dead Okay

so he kind of just one- shots and especially if a team is good it's going to feel very very very punishing to play

into a good Wolverine player and it's not going to be fun at all you're going to get spawn camped okay so typically

what I like to do is first step is Scout where the Wolverine is once you know where he's positioned take the area of

the map where he's not and angle around him wide so think about like idril path first point attack right like if

Wolverine's chilling on that main pillar next to the objective just ignore the [ __ ] point walk all the way left side

with your team and send your h on like an off angle that's like super super far away and say well now what are you going

to do you can't stand behind the pillar cuz I can see you where where you're hiding so you can't stay main because my

whole team is there so let's just give him a wide birth you need to treat him like a dangerous animal you just need to

give him distance and give him space don't ever go near him El he's going to bite you and then you just need to shoot

him from afar and keep poking him out and keep making him rotate his kill box in his positioning okay um just have to

poke his staging basically he's he's like a solo he's like a character he's he's like a dive comp in one character

it's kind of weird Okay um okay does anybody have any questions does this all make sense yes okay you guys want to get

into some boding now it's like in these three lines where would you slot the like storm and Wolverine I think they're

actually quite flexible I'm going to be honest um I think you can kind of put them into any comp and they're dangerous

I will say though that they're better based on matchup I think storm is very flexible you can play storm in basically

any comp in the game and she's really [ __ ] good um it's quite rare that I'll say that storm is not a good pick

um when it comes to Wolverine I think Wolverine struggles depending on map sometimes kind of similar to Groot so

think about like how Groot wants to play Groot wants to play for close chokes close Corners making you walk into him

trapping him and like tra trapping you and stuff like that they actually play with sort of similar positioning if you

think about group Wolverine they both want like tight spaces with close corners and you walking into their space

and playing patiently for you right um they're not often pushing you they're letting you push them and so the maps

where Groot are good or where Groot is good usually Wolverine's going to be pretty good too and the maps where

groot's really bad Wolverine's probably not not as great either so I think those two characters are a little bit more map

dependent but storm is like basically playable on every map in the game you could say really um I think storm storm

might struggle a little bit on a map that has like uh too much open space so maybe a map like um by Frost Gardens on

uh Royal Palace maybe that could be a little bit rough for storm just because it's just complete open air and you

might get off angled by a Hela or a hit scan or something but if you ban Hela on that map then you can probably run storm

on that map and you're fine right um which map is that uh Royal Palace the domination map from uh

Asgard yeah and I have a hot take question yo what's up um is triple tank good

against Triple support oh uh I would probably say no um I haven't tested it too much

myself so I can't necessarily tell you like 1,000% that it's bad um are you saying like triple support triple tank

so just full goats into triple support no no no just triple tank and a DPS and uh two support I would I would probably

wager guess no because you have to think about like what what is a tank actually doing for your for your comp what is

Chang one of your characters a tank doing well it's making you more tanky duh right so your your your front line

is going to be harder to kill but the triple support comp isn't playing to kill you so they don't really care and

at the end of the day would you rather have a tank ult or would you rather have a support ult right most of the time

you'd rather have a supportal so so my question then would be like what do we do into triple support into triple

support the theoretical answer I could give you this is based off OverWatch Theory would be playing a composition

that is very very lethal does a high amount of burst damage so something like dive and the reason why is because if

you play Slowly in the triple support you're feeding their ult charge and you're shooting their tanks with high HP

and as far as I know in this game there's no penalty to your ult charge if you heal a tank or damage a tank for

that matter in an OverWatch there is a penalty right so if you heal a tank and OverWatch you get less ult charge than

if you heal a DPS because tanks have a high HP in this game I don't think they've implemented that as far as I

know or at least no one's told me that so that means that like comps that are support charge far based right those are

really really strong in Rivals because there's no penalty for healing tanks and just basically heal Bing the entire time

and just farming the [ __ ] out of your ultimate okay so with that in mind you would want to play the opposite of slow

which is very very fast but you wouldn't want to necessarily play fast on the tanks unless you have a comp that

literally runs them over like a ram May Reaper Moira comp okay what you would want to do is play a composition that

runs the supports over because in theory their ability to pocket each other should be a lot harder and puts a lot

more responsibility on them to be incredibly good players who mechanically individually and like their micro

decisions are crazy crazy good and they play perfectly in order to survive versus them just being able to sit back

and like shoot their tank in the ass I could do that and be top 500 doing that you know if I queed with a full stack

you know what I mean so it doesn't really put any pressure on them if you're pressuring their tank does that

make sense so into triple support if you just shoot their tank that's what they want like they're just going to sit in

the back Perma healbot they're they're basically AFK they can turn on Netflix and still win right but if you dive them

they now have a crazy amount of responsibility to hit every single sleep hit every single heal coordinate where

they're kiing make sure they don't split too hard it's like all of a sudden you're introducing an element of chaos

and I don't think the comp would like it very much and the faster you play the less ult charge both teams are getting

and you obviously want to keep the ult charge low for both teams versus having ult charge high for both teams because

if you're playing a dive comp you don't want to necessarily have black panther ult versus a Luna ult being charged for

both teams you'd rather not have your black panther all and they also don't have their Luna do you see the logic yes

okay so hopefully that answers your question fast comp pressure backline pray for the best yeah just maybe like a

little uh note to that would would uh walking through them or going over around them be better if you're playing

a comp that's diving like hard [ __ ] dive uh your best bet is almost always especially in OverWatch as well to Stage

angles first and then crash and collapse if you only walk towards them what they're going to do is simply walk away

in the opposite direction so if you walk forward they walk backwards if you walk to their right

they're going to walk to the left if you walk to the left they're going to walk to the right imagine there's a circular

table between you and someone else and you're trying to play game a tag if you rotate around the table

they're just going to run to the other side right they're just always going to run opposite where you go but if you

have two people on your team playing tag versus that one person are you going to send two people around the same angle or

you going to split the angle you're going to send one guy to the other side of the table you take the left side they

take the right side and then they have nowhere to go does that make sense yes so it's better to surround most of the

time because you cut their kite path as the specific thing right okay all right any other questions yeah

no problem are you seeing players stick to one role or are they mastering a character and like in each rooll I it's

it's a player-by-player basis it's really really really not um something I can answer great because in a game this

early there aren't really set hero pools that everyone is like fully on board with uh cuz the the game is very very

very new right um as far as the teams that I coach go uh I encourage High flexibility and I prefer players that

have high flexibility all right so um I have like most of the players that I'm coaching are extremely high rank so they

have to fill sometimes when they're playing ranked um especially if they get teammates that are like one tricks and

people that don't play other roles so basically all of my tank players support players and DPS players are used to

having to fill in ranked that's why ranked is such a broken buff in this game right now especially in the early

stages if you're a ranked demon that's that bodess really really really well for scrims um so like both of my DPS

players can play a couple supports if they need to my tank player can play support if they need to in one of the

comps that I had that that I made for them uh my tank player actually played rocket for us so like it it's it's

really good to be flexible but I can't give you an answer on like what should be the flex where the flexibility should

be I got you I was just wondering there's already something being set up but not quite yeah not really uh I just

adjust it based on my players like my previous iteration on my team I had the best psylock in EU so I had a lot of our

Theory based around psylock he's not on the team anymore so we're not going to have a lot of theory forso we're going

to adjust our Theory based on the players we have right um so that kind of stuff is important okay all right any

other questions no okay did you guys want to look at any of the stuff from scrim do

you guys actually want to like B yeah I threw a code in the team chat and I guess we can Team chat where is that

voice Channel chat put it everywhere we'll find it someplace found it all good all right

all right let me share my screen and then we'll get into it I think the first fight they do exactly what you were

saying about like the uh different angles we were looking at that briefly but we didn't get too far in the review

so um I try to take like a complicated game like OverWatch Rivals you know basically OverWatch clone uh they're

they're essentially the same game and what you should always try to do is figure out ways to help yourself out and

make it easier for yourself to play the game and one of the best ways to do that is to take this very complicated game

and try to reduce it to a simplified form as best as you can so I'll draw that up for you guys and kind of show

you what that looks like but let me get this replay up first bur into Chala the domination map yeah

okay so let me get this set up okay let me share my screen

okay so I'll give you a little bit of an example in terms of uh what I'm what I'm kind of talking about also Rivals is

still really poorly optimized so my epic pen lags only for Rivals and nothing else when I first try to write something

it's like super delayed kind of annoying um but let's say that the enemy team is playing a fast

comp okay and it's like super like first tempo okay supposed to be n um let's say that

they're playing something that is like really really DIY hate Rivals okay um then we have a

couple options that we can go for right so we can either play some sort of comp let's say that this is like this I'll

just write down us okay we can either play a composition that is some sort of Jesus Christ man

it'll work guys it'll work don't worry it's a little bit steady okay we can either play a comp that is some sort

of counter or we can play a comp that is some sort of I'll just write down uh mirror okay so if I say mirror in

OverWatch usually that's going to mean we're literally playing the exact same comp as enemy team right when I'm using

mirror here I mean that less as it being an exact physical mirror and more so that the wind condition that you're

playing for for is the same as theirs so let's say for example that you were playing a comp that was um we'll say it

was let me actually do this this might be easier let's say that you're playing a comp that's

Winston okay Genji Tracer uh Kiri Lucio and you're facing a team that is playing Hazard I'm assuming

you guys know OverWatch characters right relative is there anyone that has not played OverWatch yeah I do I don't think

C did but okay I haven't played like a bunch but like I know the Gen you kind of know the

characters a bit right yeah yeah okay um and then let's say that we were playing like Hazard we were playing uh Sombra we

were playing Tracer we were playing um let's say Juno and Lucio okay line so if you if you look at these compositions

right there's a couple characters that are the same but there's Al there's also a lot of characters that are not the

same right so the Tracer and the Lucio are the same but we have Juno instead of C we have Sommer instead of Genji we

have Hazard instead of Winston but these characters are somewhat similar in the style that they play for does this make

sense so even though it's not an exact mirror the wind condition is play really really fast and dive

backline both teams want to do this does this make sense MH so this is something that applies to Rivals as well is let's

say for example that the enemy team is playing uh like a storm comp and they have a moonight okay then what we can do

is we can say okay if you're going to play actually make it a little bit easier let's say that they're playing uh

Hela and moonight okay so something that we can do is we can say okay do we want to counter this in some sort of way

right what do you think counters hel moonight and I guess the best question I can ask at first actually is how does

Hela and moonnight play are they slow or they fast slow okay very very very slow anything else what what what are they

good at what are what what defin okay angles play from range yeah we could say ranged poke right so what

would be something that's kind of like opposite that you know if we just think about these words and we think what are

the antonyms to these words like what's what's something separate from this a MAG yeah let's go like magic and

DP or some [ __ ] okay this is fast right this is angles but it's staging not staying right Hela hel might go to an

angle and stay there because it's a powerful position and she stays there and pokes you over time gets value right

magic BP set up on angles to Simply use them as springboards to like jump you okay so it's a little bit different they

stage she stays okay and they don't have ranged poke they have like close range melee type damage okay so these are very

opposing comps and I would personally rather be the magic BP team probably into this depending on the rest of the

characters than to be the hell Moon Knight team because if you're going to play really slow on Pokey in theory you

should be weak to dive in some sort of way okay um so if you were the Hella moonight team then you'd have to say

something like okay [ __ ] well maybe if the magic PP keep killing us then maybe what I'm going to do is I can either

stay with the comp that I have right and try to counter them in some sort of way or we can mirror so maybe the hell Moon

Knight team says okay we're going to swap to um psylock magic and swap to Venom maybe maybe the magic BP team has

two dive DPS but they actually are running like group Magneto and then red team says okay well we're going to run

Magneto Venom now we have an extra dive tank over you we're going to do what you're doing but just do it better than

you right that would be something of like a mirror where you're you're taking the mirror you're taking the dive mirror

but something else they could do is say okay well my Hela keeps dying right I'm going to save my mag bubble for Hela

every single time for the magic engage we're going to scout the magic and BP every single neutral and my moon

Knight's going to swap to neyar and we're going to play Luna Neymar so now I have turrets that are set up to help

mark this magic help mark this BP and kill these guys easier or I'm going to swap my Hela to a Bucky and now when you

try to engage on me as magic I'm going to pull you with my hook and you're going to die does this make sense yes so

this is the way that we need to be thinking about matchups okay guys um let's check out the ban phas for this

let's see how we're doing we ban Luna immediately why do we do this is it because you guys want to play Dive so

you want to get rid of neyar uh no idea I think we messed up okay well I think the team wouldn't shut

up when I was asking what we were Banning and then I panicked and banned something

okay are wanting to play Dive this is probably the best ban that you can start with we tend to ban her quite a bit if

we're not using her ourselves what's the point because we did go dive yeah so if you ban Luna it

basically pseudo bans neyar as well right um if you want to play Luna with your dive comp which sometimes Luna's

actually really good with dive then you can actually leave Luna open and start with a neyar ban instead which might

seem a little bit weird but it makes logical sense you want to leave Luna open but you don't want to face Neymar

so just ban the [ __ ] out of Neymar make sure they can't save it now what might end up happening and this is something

that maybe you guys could think about for your for your future scrims is they might end up saving a character like

Loki because Loki's very good against I because of his Emos and stuff it's very very hard to kill so keep that kind of

stuff in mind okay um they end up Banning storm which is you know I guess that's fair you guys save Cloak and

Dagger why what's the point I have no idea I don't know either be honest I don't think you

need to save clo and Dagger and I think if they use a ban on clo and Dagger that's just really bad on their

part they save Adam okay so theoretically you would think maybe they're playing Adam maybe they're

playing some sort of like old school Star-Lord mantis comp that's possible um maybe they're playing Adam because

they're worried about dive in some sort of way you have no idea okay but okay then they end up Banning Neymar for you

so so these guys are hard [ __ ] trolling we agree this is the most free dive thing ever just kill them

okay so I think we can maybe consider even off of the band phases being able to like have flexible macro and being

able to adjust and adapt to different situations so if I'm sitting here and I'm coaching you guys I'd be like okay

they end up saving Adam if they're saving Adam it could honestly just be a a bait it could be a bait to make us ban

Manchester band starlord or something that's what people did in the past in like early High ELO um that's not really

a thing anymore cuz Adam's not really played too much anymore but if they're going to save Adam I would say that we

don't really care about that let them play [ __ ] Adam and let's just assume that if they're going to be on Adam

we're going to soft dive him to force out link then we're going to AFK and then we're going to go back in once the

link is gone because it's like a 30 second cool down does that make sense so just off of the band phase we can

already start brainstorming like how we actually want to play the match up because we're going to use the

information from the band phase to for example did you guys hear what I just said like they're probably saving Adam

to maybe try to bait a mantis span this mantis ban doesn't really do anything for us we would rather ban Loki because

we're trying to play Dives I like that so make sure that your Bans are influenced by the comp that you actually

want to play does that make sense okay thank you mantis is not the the worry for us and what do they end up playing

they end up playing Loki atam would you look at that now we'll see if they actually stay that because maybe they

don't but it'd be nice if they could prove my point they do stay it

nice okay so so let's take a look at this that is not the right button it's janky ass game dude okay how

do we play this all right so what the hell are we playing guys anybody know cuz I don't [ __ ]

know uh we have Groot who's one of the slowest characters in the game with Venom which does not have that much

Synergy but it's playable just not that much Synergy we have venom and Spidey who probably want to play really really

fast but then we have group moonnight which is like a completely different archetype of comp you guys get what I'm

saying yeah it would be like if we had like Hanzo Widow and then we were playing like Winston Ki yeah I think we

got silly there and tried to do two different things so Venom and hybridization of two completely

different comps you know now let's try to let's try to make something out of nothing okay let's try to say okay

obviously we know that maybe next time we're going to play a different but let's try to learn from the material

that we have at our disposal okay so how do you guys think you should leverage the strengths of your comp to try and

create win conditions if I asked you in theory how would you play this optimally what would you say to me just anything

no no wrong answers just try to just try to brainstorm the slower characters play together and the divers play with

themselves or it's like two cool right yeah we can have separate units okay I'm fine with that but what should those

units be doing let's get more specific I think the dive unit should be doing a bunch of like S soft Dives so

then the slow unit can poke a lot more easier okay why not hard Dives though I feel like if we overc commit

and then like we lose one then they can just collapse on our slow unit pretty easily a good way that we can say that

is we shouldn't necessarily be hard diving because only half of our composition even wants to be diving

anyways if we were playing Venom Hulk God forbid and we played Spidey magic like like you know Luna mantis with you

know some something crazy fast and aggressive all six characters are designed to go in aggressively and dive

do we agree yes but if we're playing something that is like Groot and moonnight those characters aren't

necessarily going to be as good of helping you when you're diving so what we can do instead is instead of diving

aggressively on a hard dive we can justify that we're trying to soft dive mainly to clear space mainly what what

if instead of using our dive characters to actually dive and kill people we're just using them to control like specific

spaces and specific High grounds that are valuable and marking their threats cuz maybe they're playing a hella maybe

they're playing a storm maybe they're playing a Hawkeye or something and we just need them to be marked you know

what I mean so it could be something like that what about the other characters in the team what should they

be doing oh they fight on point ideally fighting on point okay why because

groots brawl they don't want to be in my face Groot is a strong sturdy character

basically like a Reinhardt you could think of it right so Force the damn objective okay or send your Gro which is

a character that obviously cannot fly send him to walk to a high ground to take ownership of it clear that high

ground and then you can drop to point on top of the enemy team who's dropped to point first right because if you go to

point right now Thumper what's going to happen to you what they should do is say why is th standing there I'm just going

byass me yeah yeah I'm just going to stay on High Ground like you want to be underneath me that's fine okay I'll just

shoot everybody else behind you and you're sitting here like guys I want to fight I want to play the game too right

so they end up rolling out to High Ground pretty quickly we already using our moonight uh like team up I feel like

we should probably be saving this until we actually need it okay this Spidey angle is quite good I think this is fine

um and then let's see how we how we end up playing this so we get some decent poke here I think that's

okay uh so now if we're looking at this we have a couple options right notice how

their team is also kind of split into two groups do we agree mhm they got some people that are pushing up here but then

they they have some people that are still stuck back here okay both of their supports specifically so what we can do

right now is we can say hey they dropped off The High Ground so let's hit here on this timing which I think could be a

decent idea the other option is is hey they dropped and their supports are split can we just crash on these guys

and try to go for a trade what do you guys think is the right answer top why top uh he creat space for us to be able

to gather ourselves and uh maybe get picks and heal up yeah the most important reason why is because remember

what we talked about not necessarily getting kills but marking something that's valuable mhm let's say there was

a Widowmaker up here and we just Dove here what's going to happen uh did what maker is going to

have a field day yeah she's just going to hit a head shot somewhere or Hawkeye's going to hit a head shot or

hell is going to hit a head shot okay but damage is not the only thing that's valuable to them what do these

characters provide especially this guy uh healing healing healing if we cut this guy off what is their Adam doing

from this range nothing absolutely nothing so if this guy's preoccupied

with emo himself and carrying each other and linking each other and doing all this stuff just because of Venom and

Spidey is on them even though that's two of our characters for two of their characters is that a positive trade for

us or a negative trade for us definitely positive they have no for sure positive because we're trading damage for the

entirety of their heals the best way to kill these guys is actually to just stop their healing not actually damage them

these guys will bleed out just over time because they have no heals does that make sense yes

okay we got yeah did we know they had a black panther there it doesn't look like I saw

him I called them out but I don't think anyone heard it okay and like they they're coming from a starlord on the

other side too like there's a good pitch Fork attack that you talk about before yeah with the OverWatch

team yeah so as the composition that doesn't have a lot of Mobility right like half

our comp does the other half of it doesn't really I think you guys are probably more inclined to go to a high

ground like this and try to clear them or something you know um and try to like pressure their choke or something like

that um but I think we kind of just like stay on our side of the map and then they end up doing a really good pinch

that we weren't expecting and it just looks a little bit awkward okay that's fine do we swap anything or do we play

this the whole time we swap into the second point I think okay yeah I think the first point was just kind of cooked

but the second Point second and third point was better okay this is really bad so let's

think about our composition versus theirs okay does their comp dive us or do they poke us or something uh dive

they kind of dive us too right yeah so they're also playing a kind of weird comp but to be fair both of their tanks

can actually get the [ __ ] in pretty well yes so they are playing a pretty DIY composition okay against the dive comp

what are they going to have to do before you touch the objective they're going for the back

line they're going to dive you they're going to hit you on rotate yeah so when we come out of Spawn here technically

based off of this game what is our goal there's one position High ground touch the point tou the point okay if we don't

do that one singular goal we lose the game right if we just stick around over here

for like 60 seconds do we not just lose for free we have to eventually touch the point so if we understand that what they

want to do is hit us during our rotate which is when we're vulnerable which is why we're dying here right what if we

just walk to a different area that has so much more cover and is so much safer and we can just take point this way

right why not take the shorter what feels like a shorter route because you actually have so much

cover right right I mean hell you could walk here if you wanted to and do you suggest us break wall when we do push

that way it's already BR absolutely absolutely The Wider the choke is the better it's going to be for you you

don't want to give them a little narrow choke and you don't have to send everybody over here either if you have a

different composition you could send like some people here and you can have some people linger over here and like

maybe like swing this side or you could like send a few people over here like you're doing right now specifically to

attract their attention and then you send like your Hela over here and then it's just like it's free you know what I

mean so you could do a lot of different things and combinations of different ways to retake but typically the common

ways to retake and OverWatch is going to be creating an off angle Advantage creating a cool down advantage or

forcing the objective you could add a fourth one which is like ripping an ultimate but

right now I'm focusing on like neutral ways to retake so we could create an off angle we could send four people here and

send a support plus one over here boom now we have an off angle that's a way to create an advantage we could send six

people over here but track their cool downs and say hey uh let's say that they're playing Groot or something hey

Groot just wasted all three walls can we walk uh no no emmo no emmo no link no link

can we go can we go right so we're scouting the cool downs and the cool Downs is what's giving us an advantage

where if we push them on a certain timing we actually have a really good chance of winning and this team has a

couple of the biggest resources that are really really really good but temporarily strong link is so broken but

when it's on cool down he's not really a character immortality is so broken but when it's on cooldown he's not really a

character okay so we can push at the right timing and that could give us an advantage or we could touch the

objective with our quote unquote Tracer in this case it would be like let's say we had a cyoc or something siloc went

invis dashed over here touched Point all of a sudden who goes the point yeah it's kind of awkward for them right yeah and

even if our silot gets marked by a lot of people it's fine because their formation will break right I guarantee

you even their front line will be back to Here by that point guarantee their entire team will turn okay it's just a

natural human thing that's done when is forced everyone panics C9 C9 C9 touch touch you know like they're all going to

turn around okay right also notice that again our comp doesn't necessarily have like a full

brawl comp but we also don't have a full dive comp so it's a little bit awkward for us

to just walk into them here even though we have a Groot who probably likes this kind of fight our venom has to feel like

he's doing absolutely nothing our Spidey probably feels like he's doing absolutely nothing because we're trying

to out brawl like Thor cap team up with full Loki pocket and Adam with soul link who's actually going to brawl you really

[ __ ] hard because both immortality and soul link can actually be used aggressively to push you feels kind of

hard right yes now if we had this swap to like Magneto and then we had our Spidey swap to I mean dude [ __ ] it

Squirrel Girl if you want to like neyar with Luna or just like anything B but I'm just I'm just giving examples right

so you could swap to anything here that is like more Broly and into that is your wi

condition we lose some people blah blah blah we get staggered who cares let's see how we rotate now okay we do end up

swapping what the [ __ ] is this guy doing what a lovely play okay uh you guys end up swapping to

um Star-Lord Bucky and a MAG and the mag yeah it's true

okay V one Thor all right we're whiffing a little bit cryptic that's okay though it's okay

I get it I get it trust me all right so can anybody tell me we talked

about taking off angles we talked about touching the objective we talked about looking for for a cool down Advantage

what's the correct answer against this team comp that they're playing right now there is a correct

answer like what composition is is no I'm saying so like what what should we play around as our like our our fight

plan as as our like what fire plan should we have with this C yes exactly against their composition what is the

correct answer is it play for a cool down Advantage is it play for an off angle is it touch the objective

enforcement drop cool Downs then push okay What cool Downs though Soul link is the number one Soul link if

they have soul link you need to play like the biggest coward I'll use a nice word

words as as you can okay you need to play like a [ __ ] coward I'm gonna curse anyways but if they don't have

soul link you need to play with the most gigantic dick energy that you've ever had in your entire life okay push their

team and just walk them like a dog does that make sense because they don't have link rip it just go pretend you're on

Ram with a just run in okay it's very simple if they have link active back up they do not have link for which they

won't for a very long time then just literally Barrel stuff them and just run in

okay oh my God guys please help my boy cryptic here holy oh cryptic cryptic cryptic clutch oh oh oh my God okay guys

when you are up and the fight is won the number one thing you cannot do is allow trades we're so greedy to go get these

kills that we're leaving our Bucky behind the other justification you could have is that our Bucky is too slow and

he should be here right now doesn't really matter to me honestly we get to that position exactly that's

that's what I'm saying like so we're right here right cryptic still fighting a

couple people he thinks that we're with them and we're not does this make sense yeah so this could be a comm's issue it

could be cryptic like like walk forward walk forward like you know maybe somebody calls out starlord behind black

black panther behind and somebody says I know I know just walk walk walk walk walk walk past walk past right it could

be a comm's issue it could be an awareness issue maybe we weren't aware of cryptic or cryptic wasn't aware of us

I think it's the both all it could be a combination to both right so to me it doesn't really matter what we do here it

doesn't matter to me if we stay here as a six and get these two kills and let them rest doesn't matter doesn't matter

to me if we push forward here and we leave the these two behind that's what I would probably be probably prefer but it

would require good comms to actually execute that play okay so this kind of a comms issue okay um I don't think there

was Golden Rule is do not allow trades when you are up in numbers which right now we are up in numbers even if they go

for this for this res which I know like you usually want to walk on reses and try to pressure them right even if they

res here they're still going to be hard stacked low HP walking into our space you don't have to like hard Greed for

this because even if they resawn they're still at a disadvantage when they walk in okay right and they probably don't

have their link either appreciate that yeah really good stack and stable no trades at

all no trades no trades no trades no trades great okay this is good he's just staggering

himself he love to see it this guy Celestial yeah their whole team was yep

no some of them were Master there's like one plat or something there was a plat and a master three but he was

Celestial I think Celestial 2 I should be [ __ ] top 500 by now then okay

yeah uh interesting whoa okay so let's look at the comp that

we're playing now we have Magneto we have Thor what does that mean in comparison to like when we were playing

Venom uh slow yeah we got we're a little bit slower and we have more like sturdiness now right like groot's really

sturdy but Venom not that sturdy so we actually have the ability to brawl pretty hard now what did we say was the

correct solution to retaking against this team what is the one thing we need to watch out

for uh cool Downs yeah which one link okay so if we need to care Soul link on our retake guess what we need to Care on

our hold to link the exact same [ __ ] thing okay why are we giving them the

entire map so we should be pressuring down why would we not force the link in their spawn give space and kite now they

don't have it and they don't have Point control I'm pretty sure we were just hella

flustered well I mean at least we're learning but we're literally AFK standing low ground six stacked on point

taking no space taking no angles holding nothing letting them come and touch point for free look at their HP in the

top right mhm they've taken zero damage guys so what they're going to do is they're going to say oh all of this is

uncontested okay thank you let me just take all this space for free take all this space for free take all the space

for free oh now we're going to fight now I'm linking on you and if you kite me which you're supposed to do what do you

now give up something that actually matters the objective right does this make sense

versus if you guys hold here and you spam spam spam and they're like guys guys guys we're really struggling to

retake okay I'm going to link us in ready 3 two one link and then they push you out you're already prepared for that

because you're smart players you're like okay thank you for linking I'll catch you later now you reset here now they

have no link now they're chunked what do they do now they get pushed it's our turn to play now right make sense yeah

okay good ultimate let's see [Music]

Thumper is this an easy ult for you to hit I haven't played much Magneto but I should be hitting somebody I did it to

cancel the uh I was trying to you should be hitting somebody from here are you sure against this

team well maybe not from that from that distance those are both the cool Downs too yeah I popped it to like cancel out

the the Star-Lord alt like that was the main well of course of course right but that doesn't mean that we can't optimize

the rest of the ultimate too this was a this was a great ultimate using it to counter star that's that's really really

really good but when you go for for an ult like this right now did you force their cool Downs sure but I actually

think you can use this to get a kill because the cool Downs that they're using to counter what you're doing right

they're still getting value from those cool Downs right like you're forcing them yes but isn't it better to like get

a kill and let them have their cool downs and they're just down a player I'd rather have that you know so what you

should be doing here is understanding hey those guys are really [ __ ] far away they still have link they still

have Emo I'm probably not going to get a Kill from this distance and the farther away I am as a MAG

the the less chance just mathematically speaking objectively speaking I have of actually Landing a direct that's going

to kill so why not hover like this look the Star-Lord keep your ears open for audio hover like this look at them make

them scared to use their cooldowns to make them emo themselves you flick to here and you shoot the [ __ ] out of these

guys look at them y a free kill man and can these guys do anything to stop that kill no no no because you're or in them

Humper you're saying look at me I am scary and they're like oh [ __ ] a Magneto kite kite kite emmo emmo Link Link Link

and then you go not [ __ ] you baited and then you hit these guys and you just instant kill okay does that make sense

it's so free dude it's so [ __ ] free they even if they have Linkin in imemo they're not going to Win 4 V6 I'd rather

have that situation okay do you see what happens we actually end up losing our support okay this guy almost lives but

thankfully we get the kill okay they still have Ground Control they drop

down they spin and then we end up losing okay did we die with ultimates absolutely we did okay pitch did we have

our ult before we died yes okay

unfortunate I think that would be a good time to ult just because if we we need to win

this fight right if it's an overinvestment I would rather overinvestment

leave it up to chance and the downside is that if we lose this fight we lose the map based on their my thought was I

could save it for the next like next round we actually oh oh okay no I think I think this fight's really winnable no

yeah no it's super winnable like I don't think in our heads I don't think we thought that but it's actually like

surprisingly we were kind of just like yeah we just game one we our out out for sure okay okay yeah I think

you guys are just getting in your own head but you know you guys are a new team it's it's going to take a little

bit for composure to sudden okay especially for a new game but can anybody tell me why this is so [ __ ]

winnable there's like one good answer that you can give here they overextend them

like isolated and we don't do anything to capitalize on it distance here bro like the [ __ ] Red Sea is in

between their backline and their front line look how far these guys are and look at Thumper Aura they're so

scared these guys are so free to kill yeah so free okay so these are free kills we need to be able to recognize

when the fight is still winable and we need to recognize as well when we're still in danger from this ultimate

Magneto ult is not just hard counter starlord right it counters a portion of it but he's still going to have it

active and he has a really dominant position right now and you'll notice that he comes down does a little spinny

and we're just [ __ ] okay so keep this kind of stuff in mind okay guys yes we appreciate that go next

map hey did we adjust our composition at all no did they adjust the composition at all

no great okay well we thought we figured something out so we're like we can okay I mean h that's that's fair it was

better than the first fight that we did should we I want to know what should we be running though we did end up

adjusting it though and this if you ask me what you should be running there's literally infinite answers in this game

right like there's so many answers is what we're running now good though I would say

no what's the issue on our team though like that's what I want to know it's a very weird combination of characters

that just don't usually play together right so is that Star-Lord as being one of them no because because like

star-lords Star-Lord is good by himself but he's good when you synergize with him right Magneto is really good in like

most comps he's not really ever the issue most times right Thor it's it's it's it's all the

characters it's not like you can pick out one necessarily cuz a lot of these characters are pretty decent but they're

optimized when they're paired with people that make sense yeah so like what should we have G for so I would say here

for example if you're playing Sue Sue likes to play stacked with some sort of like chunky Broly team right I feel like

Sue and Star-Lord have good Synergy because of the shield but I feel like with your comp you don't have a lot of

reach anyways like you're playing Bucky so Bucky's going to be hard stacked clo and

Dagger really likes healing a bunch of people in a group like AOE type stuff so clo and Dagger also likes your team to

be stacked right Magneto and Thor like to be stacked and then stord kind of there so something you can do is you can

maybe play like I mean you could swap your uh your Thor to a Venom and you could swap cryptic to some sort of

aggressive dive DPS and now you have kind of a dive comp and then the starlord makes somewhat like a more

sense yeah I mean I also think Sue could be could be okay I don't think Sue is that bad in dive you have to play her in

a more of a different way almost like a Sombra okay so it's a little bit different but let's say for example that

you wanted to play more stacked then maybe something you can do instead is you could go like um you could play

[ __ ] solo mag and you could have like Bucky and Punisher and swap somebody to Rocket now you have triple support

rocket with like Bucky Punisher do you get what I'm saying it's like I'm not saying that that comp is the best of

what you should be playing but I'm saying that the calculations that I'm doing is it's being supported by some

sort of logical conclusion like rocket synergizes with Bucky Punisher so we're stacked and we have a lot of like range

pressure and we're playing for our Z value and like Magneto has shield and bubble for punishers timing with

infinite ammo and it's like all of these things are kind of jelling together where maybe the comp isn't even that

optimal but the comp at least makes sense okay it's like playing Winston Tracer Genji Kiri L all of those

characters are fast they do the same thing really really well they all synergize so that's kind of what you

want their comp while very [ __ ] ugly sort of has some sort of wi condition their comp actually plays quite fast but

what we've noticed is their backline plays really slow at least These Guys these players play slow cuz the L play

fast but I don't noticing that yeah so what we should be doing is probably playing a composition that can absorb

their dive and while they dive you could even try a hybrid comp where once you notice separation like once you notice

that like hey I don't really see their Panther right now I don't really see their cap right now where's the rest of

their team they must be set up on an angle behind me they're always going to dive us first because these guys are ego

us they're Celestial they're a higher rank they play at a faster Tempo they're going to Ego us and go first Tempo every

single fight right they're probably going to be the ones diving us not us diving them you guys agree so what if we

played Venom here and when they're setting up for their dive we dive their backline at the same time but it's not

actually a dive it's a Venom solo diving right Venom takes the aggression and the aggro from both of their their their

supports and distracts them so they're not healing then the entire rest of our team is able to 5v4 and we just absorb