Unlocking Instagram Growth: Mastering Content Creation with Brock Johnson

I just interviewed Brock Johnson he has 735,000 Instagram followers and this guy knows

how to grow on social media I can't wait to share with you what we talked about he dropped some insane Frameworks about

how to create content that not only helps you grow your Instagram account but also to actually turn those

followers into Sal and customers for your business I was taking a ton of notes this is an absolute Master Class

not just about Instagram but about content creation as a whole if you're someone who's been creating content but

it's just not performing that well this is an episode you're going to want to grab a notepad for because Brock does

not hold back without further Ado let's get into it what is up Brock welcome to the show thank you so much for having me

I'm excited to be here yeah I'm really excited to have you and grateful but we connected you know I went over your bio

a little bit in the introduction um is there anything beyond like the bullet points the highlight

reels that you want to share or tell people before we dive in sure I I think you know I I appreciate you having me

and I appreciate you know the fancy introduction that that always is is granted but um I I want to make sure as

we get started today that I acknowledge that I first and foremost see myself as an entrepreneur a business owner more

than a content creator um and I just am in a unique position where my job as a business owner is to teach other

business owners and content creators how to grow on social media so I definitely don't have this all uh figured out I

don't have every answer um so I'm just kind of figuring things out as I go and as I learn new things as we try new

things as new you know studies come out I'm just reporting on my findings as I test new things and I learn new things

about my own account I report on those um to everyone in my community and everyone who follows me um and I do this

full-time so like my full-time job is dedicated to learning about the algorithm and learning about Instagram

and we have um about 5,000 people in our Instagram coaching membership so I'm able to pull them and network with them

and ask them questions and help them grow their accounts as well um so I think that's another one last thing I I

want to say is I haven't just grown my own account we've helped you know thousands of people grow their as well

so just excited to you know get to answer some questions stay and help everyone figure out the Beast that is

Instagram yeah well I think a good place to start would be like I'm curious how you got into Instagram coaching like did

you start out doing more General marketing and sales then Instagram started blowing up and you were like oh

my God this is a thing maybe I could teach this like tell us how you came to do what you do now yes so I think it's

actually a pretty interesting story so so my freshman year of college I needed a way to provide for myself I was a

student athlete so I couldn't work like a typical 9 to-5 job um so I knew especially with my like family growing

up in an entrepreneurial family I knew that the only real option for me was to start my own business to sell something

online because I knew I wouldn't be able to you know work that that nine-to-five job I didn't have the time the energy to

do it um and so when I was about 19 years old freshman in college I created a course and at the time the course and

people always laugh when I say this and it is funny um the course was teaching moms how to keep their kids safe on

Snapchat so totally different than what I'm doing today um I I like to joke that I was a paid snitch snitching out on all

my friends and all my um you know my sister and her friends because she she was younger than me um that was my first

quote unquote business my first real business um and that was the first time I sold something online in in a

legitimate sense I had had you know the little odd oddballs side hustles as a kid but nothing that lasted more than a

month or so but so that was my first real business um and after a few months of doing that I had built a customer

base a clientele um who all the sudden knew how to use social media this new social media they had already been on

Facebook and Instagram but now they knew how to use Snapchat um and a lot of them were in network marketing or a lot of

them had their own side hustles and they saw me growing my side hustle on Snapchat and so I started getting a lot

of questions questions about how do you use Snapchat for marketing and really back in the day Snapchat marketing was

all about your Snapchat story people were ask me how do you use your snap story to sell things and to promote and

affiliate stuff um because I was doing all of that and so I was like hey if I have this expertise and I've learned a

lot about this and there's clearly a market because so many people are asking me about it um I should create a course

for that and so my second course um was still in the realm of Snapchat but it was Snapchat instead of for moms it was

Snapchat for business so I was teaching people how to um you know grow and market and make sales on Snapchat and

then uh there was this kind of Fate type of moment where uh everything looked really Bleak and bad timing wise but it

ended up working out for the best and what happened was I was again like I said a college student athlete and this

was before the days of nil where now student athletes can make all the money they want doing whatever they want um

back just a few years ago you couldn't um and so long story short the NCAA was like whoa whoa whoa what is going on

here you know is is your business a real business or is it just a way for donors to give you money um under the guise of

a fake business and so for about six to eight months I had to put my whole business on pause had to shut everything

down take everything off the internet you know stop promoting um I could still post on social media but I wasn't able

to sell or anything like that um and eventually the NCA cleared my name they saidou good to go this is a legit

business you can resume operations but when I resumed operations there was no one left on Snapchat everyone had left

because Kylie Jenner and a bunch of other celebrities and influencers were like goodbye Snapchat we're done with

SNAP and they were all going back to Instagram because this was right when Instagram released Instagram stories and

so everyone was like screw Snapchat we're done with Snapchat stories we're not going to split our time and

attention we're all going to go back to Instagram and use Instagram stor um and so I said that you know it looked

Bleak at first because my business was shut down and then I got my business back but no one was on Snapchat but it

ended up working out for the best because when I was able to resume operations it was very organic and easy

for me to Pivot and instead of resuming operations on Snapchat I just resumed operations on Instagram and I

transitioned everything that I learned about Snapchat stories over to Instagram stories and so really my first initial

Niche if you will within Instagram coaching was I was helping people grow and market and make sales through

Instagram stories um and I've been doing that for the last seven years so it's just kind of grown from there and now I

kind of teach all-encompassing everything you need to know about all the different areas of Instagram um but

that's kind of where how we got to where we are today wow I like that story for a lot of reasons one is just highlights

the finding your Niche is always a process of just moving forward despite the uncertainty a lot of people are on

the sidelines cuz they like what's my perfect Niche going to be but you really don't find it like here I'm eight years

into the coaching space and just one year into helping people publish books it's like you really just have to move

forward and it kind of finds you um so you started out as a someone who helped with Instagram stories that's something

I'm curious about um like I mean I we we can dig into my Instagram history today a little

bit because it's embarrassingly bad and you can give me lots of [ __ ] um like one thing I don't do is post

stories ever you know I mean I'm not really focused on Instagram but uh I am curious like how important are Instagram

stories for someone who has like a coach or Creator business and let's say they want to sell a course or a book or a

coaching program how important are Instagram stories to achieving that goal totally So Stories I can start by saying

this they do not help you grow so if anyone's goal is growth let's say they just started a new account or they have

a relatively low amount of followers they want more eyeballs and attention don't you don't have to worry about

stories I'm not going to tell you to not post stories but I'm going to tell you you don't have to worry about stories

because they don't reach non-followers and so by the by that same thought they don't help you grow right if they're not

reaching new people then no new people are seeing them so no one's going to follow you from stories but stories are

really essential for making sales and customer acquisition lead generation um and it's because of a few things number

one stories are meant to be a a place that is very informal a place that is very behind the scenes it's very

documentary it's very in the moment it's not supposed to be a place that is highly produced or edited in fact I like

to tell people that if they're using canva to create graphics for their stories or they're ever opening like a

video editing app to edit a video for their stories stop all you need for your Instagram stories is just the in

Instagram stories camera like that's where all of your stories should be created just right there on Instagram

because it's meant to be quick and easy in documentary that's their purpose and because they're quick and easy and

documentary they show behind the scenes they show kind of like a window into your life your feed should be Niche

related and as we've talked about the word Niche you know the things that you're posting the reals the photos the

videos you're posting to your grid to your profile to your feed those things should be nich related but your stories

don't have to be because your stories are for the viewers who have already followed you they already know your

Niche they already know what you provide they've already made the decision to follow you now they're going to your

stories because they want to get to know you better they want to learn what makes you tick they want to learn what makes

you unique they want to trust you they want to learn to like you and maybe even love you that's why people go to your

stories um and obviously all of those things help in sales because so many of us are doing what other people do or we

offer the same sorts of things that other people offer and so the way we differentiate ourselves and the way we

say hey you should work with me instead of working for any working with anyone else is through that no likeing trust

through that personal relationship that can be built on Instagram stories um and the final thing I'll say about Instagram

stories is sales go down in the DMS that is where sales on Instagram take place yes like there is the link in BIO and

yes you can put a link on your stories but for the most part sales are going to happen in the direct messages or people

are going to get into like they're going to become a lead they're going to get on your email list through your DMs and

then maybe they're sold off of Instagram but all of that happens in the DMS and the easiest way to get someone into your

DMs is by first watching your stories because when they're watching your stories there's that little reply bar at

the bottom of the screen and when someone replies down there it goes into your DMs boom you're having a one-on-one

conversation and that's the first step in making a sale so again to kind of summarize all this stories don't help

you grow but they are essential uh for building trust in your audience and for making sales wow that's really

interesting because you know everyone says like to build a personal brand you have to uh like show parts of your

personality you know the weird stuff the quirky things that are your interests and your hobbies I've always struggled

to necessarily weave that into my Niche content if I'm writing a post about how to write a book to get clients or

whatever I'm like yeah how do I factor in snowboarding into this let them know you know um it's almost like you're

saying you don't really have to worry about that I don't know if you're saying that

but no exactly no you hit the nail on the head like I can use snowboarding myself as an example there has been one

snowboarding post that I have made on my feed in the last probably two or three years one single post I snowboarded 65

days last year it is a huge part of my life stayed up I usually have like a strict bedtime of like 9:30 I'm lights

out I'm going to read mean a couple chapters of my book go to bed last night I stayed up till like 11:30 which for me

is late because I was like researching snowboarding stuff so I say all that to say I geek out over snowboarding you do

not see it on my feed because that's not why someone's going to follow me no one's going to follow me because I like

snowboarding I'm not a professional snowboard I don't sell anything relating to snowboarding so no one's going to

follow me for that they're going to follow me to learn how to grow on in and then if they're like you maybe you

followed me to learn how to grow on Instagram but then you watch my stories and you see a clip of me snowboarding

you're like gosh I like this guy even more because we have the same interest and that is really the the Difference

Maker there so yeah no you were absolutely right okay that's really powerful and I'm gonna I'm inspired to

start sharing more stories right after this um I guess one final question about that is so if I'm kind of you know

documenting like I I recorded a YouTube video before uh we hopped on here and I'm thinking I could have gotten my

phone and said hey this is my little YouTube setup you know it's nothing much I'm about to record a YouTube video kind

of thing like a little b-roll um how do you is there is there something that you do to actually

initiate DMS so you're not just sharing behind the scenes behind the scenes how do you

of that corner to try and encourage someone in the stories to reply so you can start that

conversation yeah so I think initially um it's going to feel uncomfortable to be yourself and to post about all those

like things that make you you I'll give you but over time you'll improve and over time you'll get more natural and

over time you'll get more um bold in how you talk about those things it's very much like a relationship with with like

a friend you make a new friend the first couple times you hang out out it's vanilla right like you're not really

getting that deep you're not talking about the stuff that makes you tick like you could hang out with someone five 10

times and you're still like I don't really know like their background I don't really know like their beliefs and

where they stand on things it's not till you know a few months go by that you really unpack all of the layers of that

onion and the same is true on your story so um I'll give you an example that I posted the other day I posted this story

and I I kind of funny hook at the beginning of the story I said listen you can unfollow me for this opinion if you

want to which of course makes everyone like perk up and I said but I fully support having your Halloween

decorations up on September 1st and I fully support having your Christmas decorations up on November 1st like

that's the kind of guy I am you know shoot me if you don't like it but you know that's who I am um and that is

something that is a little bit more bold of a way to say it um rather than just being like CU my original thought was I

saw someone with like a jack Lantern on their porch and I was going to take a picture and be like love this that's

kind of vanilla right like saying oh this is cool I love this that's that's not that cool but me saying hey that's

the kind of person I am I I love having your decorations up early that sort of thing um I got a ton of replies from

that and that's a ton of just organic relationships and connections but strategically speaking now especially

for business owners the best way to get people into your DMs especially a DM that's actually going to make a sale

like someone replying to my story about the Halloween decorations and being like Oh my gosh me to or oh my gosh I I put

my Christmas decorations up in July that's not going to be a sale right then and there but if I want to make a sale

right then and there and I don't want to get too lost in the sauce and the technical terms here right now but I

would recommend using a tool called DM direct message automation DM automation which is essentially you can tell people

a specific word to reply with and then when they type that word they automatically get a response that you

have typed out yourself in you know whatever copywriting or sales lingo you want to use and it's delivering the link

for them so I do this all the time I did this on my story just yesterday someone said hey I struggle with hooks and I

said okay DM me the word hook I put this on my story DM me the word hook and I'll send you 25 viral hook ideas then I get

thousands of people replying to that story with the word hook and when they reply with the word hook they

automatically get the link to the free download they're getting on my email list and what's really cool about that

is two final things I'll say before I stop my app in is number one because that link is in the DMS they're able to

go back to it I don't know about you Brian but there have been so many times where I've like clicked on a link on

someone's story and I've gotten distracted or I've tried to like open it in another browser or I've gotten a

phone call whatever I've lost the link now the link is gone like I have to go back and find that person's story what

if the story expired like it's tough to navigate and then that's the perspective of the consumer so it's easier that way

but from my perspective as the business owner I would much rather have someone in the DMS because then I can see who is

interested I can see who wanted the link when they reply to the story that's a positive form of Engagement now my story

is going to be shown to more people so I'm going to get more views if someone requested the link they received it but

then they didn't actually purchase or they didn't actually even click on the link I can follow up and ask additional

questions and just serve them better um and so DM automation is a tool that I think every single business owner every

single Creator every single person who's trying to promote or sell something on Instagram DM automation is a tool that

they should be using um and the the platform that I use for my DM automation it's the number one like most trusted

it's the one I recommend is called many chat m n y c h a t um but that's definitely like in my opinion if there's

any tool that you need in your tool belt as a content creator or business owner on Instagram it's that nice nice so in

don't be afraid to post slightly polarizing content that states your opinion and then drop like a free lead

Magnet say reply with the word and then you set up that automated software and then it's just like just that's pretty

powerful man um I want to like so we've highlighted how to nurture the relationship with your

existing audience via stories and turn those into leads for your stuff let's zoom out for a second and uh because I I

remember one of the one of your reals said posting reals is not a Content strategy or something like that that

resonated with me I was like oh like there's more strategy to this than that you know like could you could you give

us the high level overview of what is like the content strategy for Instagram you know as far as growth and nurturing

along making sales can you kind of lay out the framework for us yeah absolutely and I always tell people your uh

strategy that you use is going to differ based off the goals that you have um and unfortunately a lot of times we are

going to want to achieve all these goals at the same time but the strategies required are almost opposite for example

if your strategy is to make more sales uh you're going to use a different strategy and a different posting style

than if your strategy is or if your goal I should say is to up right like if you just want more followers and more

eyeballs I'm going to recommend different things to you than if you're like hey I don't need any more followers

right now Brock I need people to start buying my stuff and both of those are going to be a different strategy than if

you tell me your goal is engagement like if you're like hey I I don't need more followers I'm not in a launch or a sale

right now I just need people to pay attention to what I'm posting three different strategies for each of those

different goals um what I can tell you very simply is if your goal is to grow the simplest answer I can give you you

is the more you post the more you grow now of course that's an oversimplification um if you burn out

because you're posting more you're not going to grow if you can't maintain that consistency you're not going to grow if

the quality level of your post significantly declines because you're trying to up that quantity you're not

going to grow but as long as you can maintain a consistent level of quality the more you dial up the quantity the

more you will grow because it's more at bats it's more reps it's more opportun unities to reach new people and to grow

and so really the the biggest secret of my growth is not consistency it's hyper consistency posting three or four times

a day every single day for now like three four years straight um and that's that's really where the growth comes

from that's where the results come from of course that's not sustainable for everyone um and so that's why I never

give like a blanket statement number of you need to post three a day or you need to post twice a day or you need to post

once a week because everyone's different and everyone's in different seasons with different goals but the facts are the

facts and the facts are that the more you post the more you grow if your goal um is more sales oriented then it's

going to you know the strategy that you're using is probably going to be less overall posts and instead making

sure each of those posts is a higher quality of post and still using that thing that we talked about earlier DM

automation because you can use that on your feed posts just like you would use it in your stories um to generate leads

directly from the comments on your post oh cool so it can tell if someone commented a word on a post or in a story

and it'll DM them y cool and what's the you said there's kind of three purposes growth engagement and sales what would

be the purpose of having an engagement strategy yeah the engagement strategy is I'm working with a client right now who

she's got a massive following but she doesn't really want to make sales right now like she gets brand deals and

partners ships but she's not um like a business owner per se and she also doesn't want to grow because she's

already at like over a million followers so her whole thing is engagement she wants a community of engaged followers

some people just want that Community because they want that space for for people like them to be able to come

together some people want to re-engage an audience in the short term so that in the long term they can sell to that

audience or they can you know use that audience to kind of launch a new product or a new service software whatever um if

your goal is engagement it is definitely quality of posts that matters more than quantity of posts um but getting into

the quality of posts that that make engagement and that bring engagement there's so many little factors that we

can look at and so many little nuanced things um and so for most people they're going to benefit from increasing the

quantity first because it's through that increase of quantity that you can learn what makes quality it's basically like

practice makes Improvement right practice makes progress um as you're posting more these aren't just posts

that are in and of themselves and products these are posts that are opportunities to learn posts that are

are data points posts that are opportunities to improve your skills um because oftentimes people are like well

I don't even know what makes a good post I don't even know how to make a good post and I tell them you need to make

300 shitty posts before you make your first good post but the cool thing is by the time you make that 301st post the

post that is finally a good one people will then start showing up they won't be around for the 300 shitty ones they

won't see it anyway so it's kind of like there's no pressure right no one's going to see it by the time you make that

301st one the one that's finally good enough uh then the people will show up that's really good I want to

um talk about one one really dumb thing I did with Instagram that you're going to rail me for years ago and uh get your

advice on what I should do for my account because it's probably going to be similar for for a lot of people so I

had a th000 followers or something and I bought a course uh where the guy was like you know you have to get to 10,000

followers because people will take you seriously and you'll unlock the swipe up feature which didn't you remember that

when you used to have to in order to get someone to go to a link and so in the course and this was Lou Louie how or

Lewis how you know huge Guru like he's like he's what he's like what you need to do um is actually talk to my guy who

can get you followers you you pay I paid $33,000 and I got entered into some sweep stakes and all these people from

other countries followed me and I and I I I got up to 12,000 or something like that this was years ago and uh basically

like it killed my account because you know my engagement was Zero cuz all these people just followed me to

hopefully win a MacBook Pro or whatever and so ever since then like my followings has been going down and I've

been posting stuff like just just writing but um yeah like and I actually saw your post on threads a couple days

ago that was like in 2024 I'm still having to tell people not to buy followers I did that but I was like

could you speak on that for a second yeah absolutely so buying followers is like the biggest no no of all time lot

of people know that now but not a lot of people knew that just 5 10 years ago and it used to be very common practice to

buy followers especially like you mentioned uh some people might remember might not even know but back in the day

you needed 10K in order to unlock the swipe up feature on your stories which is where someone could view your story

and then they could like swipe up to get to the link that you were promoting and it was weird that Instagram even like

put that behind like a 10K follower amount like why couldn't everyone just have that um so people were buying

followers and so buying followers has unfortunately plagued so many accounts and you're kind

of digging yourself into a hole it's weird because you think oh well I have 10,000 followers so I'm kind of like

boosting myself off ground zero but instead what you're actually doing is digging yourself deeper into the hole so

actually posted a story just yesterday um where I put I think it was 10 things listed out and I said if you check off

five or more of these boxes you might want to consider starting a new account so I'll walk you

through what those 10 those 10 steps on that checklist are okay number one uh you have more fake followers than real

followers I don't know how many you know fake followers came from that giveaway sweep Stakes that you were in um and I

know you they might be like real people but for all intens of purposes they're fake they're not following you

organically they're not following you um because they're interested in what you can do for them you know they're

following you because they wanted to win a Macbook seven years ago um so more fake than real that's the first one the

second one completely change Niche so in your case I don't know if you had the same Instagram as you pivoted what you

do a few times but if you've had the same Instagram since back in the real estate days as you do now that would be

You' check off that box um third one is your account is four or more years old that in and of itself is not a reason to

start over I mean my account is like 12 years old but the problem with the older our accounts get is just over the course

of time you know if your C if your account is four years old let's say someone followed you four years ago

probably quite a few people followed you four years ago maybe they're not on Instagram maybe they lost the login for

that account maybe they they aren't even alive anymore like there are so many things that could cause that person to

be just an inactive follower and the more inactive followers you have the tougher it's going to be to grow in the

future because Instagram is always going to prioritize showing your content to your followers so if it's showing it on

the feed of someone who hasn't logged in in 3 months or who isn't even alive anymore then obviously that person is

not going to engage it's going to hurt your engagement rate it's going to hurt your growth so that was the third one

count as three plus years old number four is engagement rate below 1% so less than 1% of people who see

your posts are interacting uh number four engagement rate is or number five excuse me engagement rate is declining

so if month over month you see your engagement rate going lower and lower number six you've been consistent for at

least six months and this one is huge because so many people are like yeah Brock I checked off all those box say my

account's few years old my engagement is super low I can't grow my following and I say okay how long have you been

consistent and they say the last 3 weeks for the last month or even last two months last 90 days it's not long enough

to start seeing results it takes time to grow yes you can grow faster on Instagram than you can on um a lot of

other areas of your life right you can become a proficient instagrammer um in a lot shorter amount of time that it takes

to become a proficient like basketball player um but it's still going to take time so you need to be consistent for at

at least six months um I don't know what check number we're at now but I think this is like number seven or something

yep your content is high quality and not forced this is one where you know it's going to be a little bit subjective

you're going to have to look in the mirror and be like does my content look like sound like um is it the level of

quality of other people in my field other people in my Niche who are growing and who are seeing results and really

you know be be a harsh critic of your own stuff there because if it's not if it's below average if it's content

that's kind of just forced and produced because you had to make it um well then obviously it's going to be really tough

to grow with that sort of content uh number seven I think we're on or maybe no number eight now is um you've used

inorganic growth strategies in the past so that is one that you would definitely check off um you know paid giveaways

where you're a part of this big sweep Stakes with 40 other accounts uh follow unfollow engagement groups purchasing

followers which is something that a lot of people dabble in um anything like that would be an inorganic form of

growth um so that would be a checkbox number nine multiple Community guidelines violations so if you've had

multiple posts that have been taken down um for whatever violations that Instagram claims you have made that

could be a reason to start over and then finally you had a viral post that's is not related to your Niche if you have

something that reaches millions of people that has nothing to do with what you're selling that's a huge problem um

and that usually brings in hundreds if not thousands of followers who might be real they might be potentially engaged

but they have no interest in what you're selling and so they're not going to stick around and they're not actually

going to be engaged so anyways that was I think 10 or 11 on that list um and if you check off five or more then it might

be wise to start over Okay that was super valuable man thank you so much so of course is that why you mentioned that

the feed content should be Niche related is because you have the risk of of like getting people in who aren't going to

support your future post cuz they just liked your real about you were in Bali overlooking the beach or something like

that yeah no literally um a personal example of this is this is what happened to me on Tik Tok so I got on Tik Tok

very early on in like 2018 um and for the first year or two of Tik Tok being around it was very dance

heavy and I'm someone who likes to you know be goofy and enthusiastic and dance around this was also still while I was a

while I was a college football player and so you marry the fact that I like to dance and twerk and I have no like shame

in in being myself with also I'm in like the most masculine environment possible being an American college football

player um that was like the recipe for virality and so I had I think over 10 videos in 2019 that hit a million plus

views on Tik Tok some of them reaching like up to like 10 million 15 million views on Tik Tok and so I had 300,000

followers on TiK ToK by the beginning of 2020 which is when most people just found out about Tik Tok which sounds

great and it's cool that I can like put on my resume 300,000 followers on Tik Tok here's the truth those followers did

not care about my business those followers had no interest in listening to my podcasts those followers had no

interest in becoming customers of mine because those followers only wanted me to dance in my football pads they did

not care for anything else m and so now fast forward to 2024 I've started over now I have a brand new Tik Tok account

that does not have 300,000 followers it has like 8,000 followers and that account while much smaller while the

views on average are lower that account is ultimately going to be much better for my business it's going to be much

better for uh my lead generation than the 300K account that just had people who want me to dance um and so yeah

that's why I tell people your feed posts should be pretty exclusively Niche related it should be

maybe 5% of the time 10% at most that are not Niche related that's great did you see the uh

video or post that Alex wosi made like sometime this year as the beginning of the year I think you know how fast he's

blown up on like social media YouTube he analyzed all the posts and found that the posts that weren't about business

like didn't really help like it created vanity metrics but it wasn't actually driving

leads for acquisition. comom and so they he and you know the dude spends 70 grand a month on his organic content system

he's got tons of insight on what works and their their pivot the beginning of 2024 was we're going to go back to

making only business content we're going to stop making content about Alex's workout or his meal plan or you know

Alex and Lila's relationship advice or whatever and he's like you're he's like they're going to

get less views but we're actually GNA he he makes more money off YouTube AdSense interestingly and then more uh a lot

more leads for his business yeah I haven't I haven't seen that post but that 1,00% tracks and that

makes sense yeah so one thing you brought up uh before we started recording was um the idea of share

worthy content and that's something that's been useful for your clients lately could you talk about what that is

how to create it yeah totally so let's start with like the why Shares are the best form of Engagement I've been saying

it for the last few years Instagram CEO recently has begun saying it himself and confirming it and it makes sense when we

think about it uh because everyone's trying to figure out the algorithm and keep up to date with the algorithm and

that's because it's the algorithm's job to show our posts to people right the algorithm's job is to determine who

would be interested in this and then to serve up our content to the interested parties however the algorithm is always

changing it's futile it's hard to grasp um and sometimes even a post that you know your ideal audience would love to

see it just doesn't hit with the algorithm for some reason shares override the algorithm because shares

give they give the middle finger to the algorithm and they say I don't care who you think should see this I as a human

being I'm going to send this person to the person who should see this I'm going to send this post to the person who

should see this for example if I see a post on Instagram and I'm like I it's about me and my wife like I find it

super relatable and I send it to my wife the algorithm didn't have to do anything to show it to her I showed it to her now

that post is getting one extra View and it's getting that one extra view from a perfectly ideal viewer like the intended

audience is seeing that post um and on average that might be just one view on average on Instagram one share equals

400 additional views so you do the math there if you get three shares you're all of a sudden plus a thousand views and

then think about this think about how this could like snowball if only just three out of those thousand people three

out of the Thousand so 3% of the viewers then share it themselves now you've got an additional 1200 viewers so there

that's kind of how like sharew worthy posts can can snowball and that's how they can go viral and that's why I'm

such a fan of share worthy content um also sharew worthy content is generally the content that is is entertaining it's

the content that gives dopamine and uh you know while I know a lot of people who create educational content myself

included by the way I create a ton of educational content um can be frustrated to hear that because we wish people

would just want to consume our knowledge and want to consume our value at the end of the day um value is best delivered

it's best best consumed knowledge is best gained and acquired when it's wrapped up in a nice entertaining bow

right because that's it's kind of the uh there's this uh analogy of the the chocolate covered carrot you got to lure

people in with with the entertainment with the dopamine with the thing that they think they want in order to

ultimately feed them what you know they need which is that carrot in order to ultimately serve them with what you know

will provide the most results for them um so that's that's why sharew worthy content and if you want we can kind of

get into my five different categories of what is share worthy and and what will make a post um highly share worthy I can

I can share those if you want yeah first question before you do that so it everyone I guess knows that some

something goes viral because the algorithm pushes it out to a wide group of people but is the algorithm only

pushing that piece of content because it's getting shared is that like the real like steroids for a post viral is

it about shares it's kind of that's it's a little bit of like a what comes first the chicken or the egg conversation with

that because on one hand when the post starts reaching more people it will get more shares but also because it's

getting more shares it will reach more people right um what I can tell you is that algorithmically speaking the kind

of Engagement that the algorithm prioritizes the most is shares so yes if you get more shares let's say you get

you know you have a thousand viewers and 800 of those people people crazy high number 800 out of a thousand share your

post even if they all share your post with someone who doesn't have an Instagram and that you know the person

they shared it with never actually views it so it's just the share that took place there was no um views that came

from those shares the algorithm will still reward you for that the algorithm will still push you out Simply for the

fact that people are sharing it um and if you think about it from like Instagram's perspective a share brings

someone onto Instagram a share connects people over Instagram a share engages people with Instagram so of course

that's what Instagram wants got it got it and yeah I'd love to wrap up by getting your uh your framework for

creating a sharew worthy piece of content that would be awesome cool yeah so I'll try to run through this there's

there's five categories of share withy content the first one is what I like to call the needed this content um and a

lot of the titles that I've come up with for these sharew worthy things um is like the kind of things that someone

would say when they see it so what's the kind of post that you would see and you would say oh I needed this I needed to

see this this was so good it's usually something that's motivational or inspirational so that first category of

sharew worthiness is the the content that is inspiring others it's motivating others it's the powerful quotes it's the

story of Triumph it's the you know recovery from failure those things highly highly sharew worthy second

category um is a call to Arms a call to Arms I wish there was like a single word that could encapsulate this I've asked

chat GPT and they haven't been very helpful um but a call to Arms is essentially like the Rosie the Riveter

it's a We're All in This Together We all need to help each other out it could also be called a call for help um the

most famous example of this is like the ALS Ice Bucket Challenge back in 2013 that was like Hey we're all in this

together let's all help each other out um it was even part of the challenge that you were going to tag AKA share the

challenge with someone else you were going to invite someone else to do it um there's so many examples of this where

it's like hey we we got a band together we need to help each other out we need to help spread this message help spread

the word help spread awareness um so a call to Arms the third category is that's me content that's me content is

the relatable stuff it's the stuff I was talking about earlier uh where it's like oh my gosh I can relate to this so hard

uh an example that I posted just a few weeks ago was um it was this like snippet from Seinfeld where Jerry was

saying like you know what are we doing what is this life like what are we doing here um and I put a caption a title if

you will above the video that said every entrepreneur in 2024 who is being forced to become a content creator so it's like

a super relatable feeling that so many business owners have where it's like hey suddenly now I have to not just run a

business I have to make videos online super relatable that post got I believe it was last I checked like a 100,000

likes but it got like 120,000 shares so more people shared it than even liked it that post is now at

like I think seven or eight million views in just a matter of a few days um and so it went viral and it did so well

because it's relatable so many people still as we're talking right now are sharing it to their story they're

sending it to their friends they're like this is so me I can so relate so the that's me stuff relatable content super

share worthy that's number three number four is what I like to call FEA ruffling um also known as controversial content

contrarian content if you will um it's not saying mean things and calling people names and posting your political

beliefs just for the sake of doing so it is talking about things that relate to your Niche that might be unpopular that

might not be common practice um an example that I have is hashtags I'm not a fan of hashtags I think that they're

uh really over valued within the Instagram Community people put way too much importance on their hashtags

ultimately your hashtags like you can use them but they're not going to make or break your post they're not going to

make or break your account they're not as effective today as they were 5 10 years ago um and so whenever I post

about that it gets a lot of shares because people either agree or they didn't know about this they're like wait

I had no idea or they disagree and when they disagree they're going to let me know and they're going to comment

they're going to argue and all of that is just extra engagement so I I want people to always think about like what

is an unpopular opinion in my industry what is something in my Niche that is unpopular or maybe controversial or

maybe where I disagree with um the majority and so those sorts of things highly share worthy and then the final

category of sharew worthy content um is the in the no content um the in the no content is breaking news in some cases

but I understand you know not every industry has breaking news or has headline news that a lot of people would

be aware of that relates um but it's just using pop culture and memes like today at the the time we're recording

this it's it's day one of the NFL season it's Thursday Night Football tonight with Chiefs Ravens and it's funny

because people will hear this episode after the uh the game one is happens but I I would bet I don't know where she is

I don't track her that that well but I would bet Taylor Swift is going to be there and I bet if she's there there

will be memes that come out there will be some funny face she makes or there will be some moment where there's

popcorn flying in the air or she's like disgusted and the person next to her is cheering there will be some mem worthy

moment and the people who can use that the fastest are the people who are going to get a lot of shares because they're

in the no seven days later when it's the next Thursday and some big Corporation is still using that Taylor Swift meme

they're not in the no they miss the trend they miss the pop culture moment and so it's no longer that sharew worthy

um but when they take that moment that pop culture that breaking news and they relate it to their Niche um especially

the more timely they can do it highly highly sharew worthy dude you just gave a master class on post ideas there I my

head has been spinning the whole time I'm like this this should be my posts for threads for LinkedIn for YouTube

like this is all going to work better than what I've been doing um because it's more like attention grabbing and

like you it's more sharew worthy the question the follow-up question I have is um you know I always think about like

teaching people something in my content like I'm going to teach them a tip about growing their coaching business or using

a book to get clients or whatever um how do you weave that into those five categories that you just laid out or do

you actually see educational content as separate I think you can I think it's definitely creative Challenge and a

skill that can be acquired over time of weaving in the valuable knowledge-based posts into the five categories that I

just listed kind of in the example of um like the controversial stuff there was some value in there right like I'm

teaching about hashtags but it's still a controversial opinion um maybe you're going to use a Taylor Swift meme and

you're going to relate that um to you know getting clients through a book and that's going to be the meme so it's

going to be sharew worthy it's going to be funny but but then the caption you're going to give some tips you're going to

give some value um but I also think there's time and place for posts that aren't educational posts that aren't

traditionally valuable as we think of that word um that are just purely for the sake of Engagement and giving people

an opportunity to come together and to laugh and to relate to something and to be entertained um you know there's it's

just the unfortunate reality that if you are someone I had someone asked me this yesterday they called themselves a

purely educational Creator if you see yourself as a purely educational Creator someone who is not going to dip your toe

in entertainment or anything besides value and education and tips and best practices um then you just need to be

realistic about the results that can be expected um and the real realistic truth is that for most people most audiences

pure education is never going to perform as well um as mixing in some edutainment into your education yeah I love that

it's really yeah it's it's more interesting it's more entertaining there's more it reminds me of like you

know like I like mixed martial arts and I like to watch the fights but my brother and I always say like we're only

into the fights that have like a backstory where there's drama in the buildup to it you know it's like Conor

McGregor is fighting this guy and he chucked a water bottle and at the press conference pinged off his head and you

know we got to see what's going to happen they both said they're going to kill each other everybody buys that one

you know and it's still a fight at the end of the day which a purist is going to appreciate just like someone might

appreciate education at the end of the day that's probably why they show up on YouTube or Instagram or whatever but

it's this expert weaving of story actually Seinfeld apparently does that really well like they weave in all these

different story lines to like really rub you in is there a um Cadence that you recommend of like okay if I'm going to

post on Instagram three times a day like how many of the pieces should be like a pure education piece versus more of a

sharew worthy piece what's your like postf frequency recommendation yeah I think of course it

it's going to depend on your goals so the more followers you want to grow the the faster you want to grow um the more

sharew worthy content I would recommend if you're in a season where you're trying to provide

value nurture leads to become customers that's when I would you know lean more heavily into the educational content um

because you're not trying to reach new people you're just trying to make sure the people who are already there are um

you know seeing you as as a thought leader or someone who can provide that value but I also think there are ways

that you can use the valuable educational stuff and use really strong hooks that speak to people's desires and

their problems and their pain points and uh you know creatively incorporate storytelling into your post so that even

the educ tional posts are still entertaining they might not be funny or relatable but they're at least

entertaining they're captivating they're going to have someone stick around um and I think there you know of course

it's a skill it takes time to to learn how to do that creatively um but it's possible awesome awesome I have to ask

you one more question I'm just dying um and then we'll wrap up uh I wonder what you think about AI video creation

because I know for I know there's like obvious downsides to this like the lack of being genuine and authentic but I

know also that everybody you know struggles to record and edit a real and post it multiple times a day and copy

pying 150 words into something that made like would theoretically be a lot faster I actually made a video Avatar of myself

I'll show it to you um like the other day wow and you probably that's 100% AI generated

yeah I I never recorded this um this is wow that's wild yeah and it's like slightly off like it has me like looking

like I'm in deep thought when I'm just saying click the button down below but I'm thinking it won't be long before it

will be actually will be indistinguishable uh what are what's your stance on all

that yeah I think it's it's such a broad conversation like we could do an hour and a half just on AI and content

creation um you know there's so many negatives that you know we don't need to get into um there's also a huge upside

what I will say is this um I don't think at least not in the near future that AI will replace any content creators or any

business owners but I think that content creators and business owners who are using AI will replace the content

creators and entrepreneurs who are not um you know like in that video that you just showed um while yeah right now you

probably wouldn't post that because it's distinguishable like people can notice it's AI there's like weird little things

um I don't know if you've seen the side by side there's like uh this famous viral side by side of Will Smith uh

eating spaghetti and there was an AI video of him eating spaghetti from a year ago and it's the most weird

dystopian like dream like thing that like it's like his the fork is becoming the spaghetti and there's like a third

eye and like his skin keeps Chang it looks so weird weird and there's a video that was created within the last few

months and it looks real it looks like it was filmed on his phone like literally people are like is this is

this actually a video you took eating spaghetti or is this Ai and so that's in a year um so you can imagine another

year from now or even a couple years from now how good the AI is going to be it's going to be indistinguishable

indistinguishable um however the thing with AI is it needs prompts it needs us to tell it what to to create um I know

there are AI that can create things for us but ultimately there is still some user input needed um and so I think

being a prompt engineer or knowing the prompts that are going to deliver the best results is going to be an essential

skill if not an entire role within teams and companies um in the near future I know we already have an AI engineer

who's working on our team and helping us develop um some of our products that we deliver for our customers um so I think

that you know the future change is inevitable um and I think that people who are rejecting that change are the