Understanding Purgatory: Biblical Arguments For and Against
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Introduction
As the season of remembrance approaches, many Catholics often ponder the doctrine of Purgatory in relation to their faith. With questions arising around All Souls Day and Halloween, it’s a suitable time to delve into the scriptural basis that supports the Church’s doctrine of Purgatory, along with examining theological arguments against it. This article explores the biblical teachings regarding Purgatory and aims to provide clarity on the subject, catering to both believers and those seeking answers.
What is Purgatory?
Purgatory, as understood by the Catholic Church, is not a third destination like heaven or hell for afterlife but rather a purification process. The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that all who die in God’s grace but remain imperfectly purified are assured of eternal salvation, yet they must undergo purification before entering the joy of heaven. This process is fundamentally about being made holy so that one can fully participate in heaven's glory.
Biblical Arguments For Purgatory
To comprehend the necessity of Purgatory, let's look at several biblical arguments that support its existence:
1. Nothing Impure Enters Heaven
One of the strongest biblical arguments for Purgatory stems from the assertion that nothing impure can enter heaven. As emphasized in Revelation 21:27, it is clear that anything unclean cannot enter God’s presence.
- 1 John 1:8 states, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
- When we acknowledge that we all sin, there arises a need for purification after death if one is destined for heaven.
2. Praying for the Dead
The practice of praying for the dead also supports the existence of Purgatory. St. Thomas Aquinas points out that it is futile to pray for the elated in heaven or the damned in hell; thus, praying for souls indicates belief in a transitional state of purification.
Biblical Evidence:
- 2 Timothy 1:18 offers an intriguing example as Paul prays for Onesiphorus, implying that prayer for those who have passed can have merit.
- A significant passage is found in 2 Maccabees 12:39-45, where Judas Maccabeus prays for fallen comrades, demonstrating early Jewish belief in purification after death.
3. Saved As Through Fire
In 1 Corinthians 3:12-15, St. Paul discusses how some individuals will be saved, but only as through fire. This suggests a purification process, potentially aligning with the Catholic understanding of Purgatory.
4. The Refinement of the Saved
Psalm 66:10 states, "For you, O God, have tested us; you have tried us as silver is tried."
- Zechariah 13:9 mentions, "I will put this third into the fire and refine them as silver is refined."
- Here, a scriptural basis for a refining, purifying process can be seen, which fits the core principle of Purgatory.
Biblical Arguments Against Purgatory
While there are persuasive arguments supporting Purgatory, there are also notable objections:
1. The Thief on the Cross
The narrative of the Good Thief in Luke 23:43 is often cited: Jesus says, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
- Some interpret this as immediate entry into heaven, but this overlooks the theological distinction of paradise as a waiting area, not heaven itself.
2. Absence from the Body
2 Corinthians 5:8 states, "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." Critics of Purgatory refer to this passage, suggesting no intermediary state for believers.
- However, this scripture asserts a preference rather than a definitive statement that excludes Purgatory.
3. Christ’s Redemption is Complete
One argument posits that Christ’s sacrifice alone is sufficient for purification, leaving no room for further purgation (1 John 1:7).
- Yet, this misunderstanding neglects the ongoing process of sanctification believers undergo throughout life, which may carry on after death.
4. Silent Scriptural Arguments
Finally, some critics argue that the Scripture’s lack of explicit mention of Purgatory signifies its absence.
- Yet, scripture often does not function as a systematic theology manual addressing every doctrine directly.
Conclusion
In summary, the question of Purgatory intersects significantly with Christian faith and biblical interpretation. It is not merely a theological debate but affects our understanding of God’s mercy, justice, and the process of sanctification. Through exploring arguments both for and against the existence of Purgatory, we recognize the necessity of divine purification for those destined for heaven. Ultimately, the existence of Purgatory allows believers the hope of transformation and readiness to encounter God. May the faithful departed rest in peace, and may we continue to seek understanding and truth in our faith journey.
[Music] welcome back to shim poy I'm Joe hesm so I'm going to actually interrupt the
five-week series I'm doing on answering atheism because it's that time of year when people have a lot of questions
about purgatory I'm recording this a little before Halloween it's going to come out on All Souls day which is also
Day of the Dead and because because of the Season uh a lot of people have questions about what Catholics believe
about purgatory and why oh and by the way October 31st is also Reformation day uh commemorating in October 31st 1517
when Martin Luther posted his 95 thesis which had to do a lot with Purgatory ironically if you go back and read the
95 thesis Luther believes in purgatory and actually condemns within antha only one group those who would deny Purgatory
so it's kind of fascinating the kind of forefather of protestantism uh dams those who believe what most Protestants
believe namely that there's no Purgatory that could be a subject of another video I want to look at something a little
simpler is Purgatory biblical or is this just something the Catholic Church made up I'm going to look at four biblical
Arguments for purgatory and then I'm going to look at four arguments against Purgatory the four arguments I'm going
to look for in ter of being for Purgatory first nothing impure enters Heaven second uh the concept of praying
for the dead and that being a Biblical practice third saved as Through Fire and fourth what we might call purgatory's
First fruits then I'm going to turn to look at four arguments against Purgatory the thief on the cross this line often
accredited to St Paul that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord third the objection you know didn't
Christ do at all hasn't he purified us why would we need something like purgatory and fourth uh the fact that
the Bible could be clearer on the subject so before I dive into the arguments for I want to give just a
brief word on the question what is purgatory because for many of you watching this you may be a little vague
on what do we even mean when Catholics say Purgatory are we saying some people go to heaven some go to hell and some go
to like a third place well no not really uh the catechism of theath Church explains that all who die in God's grace
and friendship but still imperfectly purified are indeed assured of their Eternal salvation so this is the first
thing to make clear Purgatory is not some Second Chance where you were going to go to hell but then you get a mull
again and get to like try again no Purgatory is only for those who are saved it's only for those who are going
as to achieve the Holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven so these are people who are saved but imperfectly
purified we'll explain kind of what that means as we go but it's people who are saved but still are living in sin or
attached to sin in some way not in such a way that they're totally cut off from God but in such a way that they cannot
say they're without sin and then the next paragraph of the the catechism explains the church gives
the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect so notice again only the elect go to Purgatory
does not mean everyone who's saved goes to Purgatory it means everyone who's in purgatory is saved and notably they're
saved by Jesus Christ they're not saved by their own effort so I'm hoping that's clear because that is going to respond
to some of the misunderstandings and criticis isms I've seen of purgatory which imagine it either as a A doover or
a place for us to save ourselves rather than being saved by Christ that's total misconceptions in both cases so with
that said let's look at four Arguments for Purgatory first that nothing impure enters Heaven this is the simplest
argument and let's just go right there in my view it's the strongest the first thing to establish is that we sin and
that should be immediately obvious if you know if you have any like self-a awareness at all
but in 1 John we're told if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us whether you are elect
or not you still sin the just man falls seven times Proverbs says so that's a problem why is that a problem well
besides the obvious reasons that sin is an offense against God we're also told in the Book of Revelation 21: 27 that
nothing unclean shall enter Heaven so nothing nothing impure nothing unclean is in heaven and yet we despite belief
in Christ still sin now I'm going to give what I'm calling the aen frad argument and the
reason is I got it from Matt Fred who got it from Jimmy Ain and I don't actually know if the wording is
originally Jimm's or Matt's so Akin Fred that's what I'm going with and it's just a way of putting this argument really
simply the first premise there will be neither sin nor attachment to sin in heaven right like you're not going to be
lusting or stealing or murdering or doing anything like that in heaven you're not even going to be wanting to
do those things premise to we at least most of us are still sinning and are attached to sin at the end of this
life that we have not been perfectly purified in this life because if we had been we wouldn't still sin and yet we
find ourselves still sinning thus we get to the conclusion therefore there must be a period between
death and Heavenly glory in which the saved are cleansed of sin and their attachment to sin right like if you're
purgation has to happen now I've seen some Protestant answers to this argument where they say well it'll happen in the
twinkling of an eye okay fine maybe you believe in a very fast Purgatory maybe you believe in a really painless P
Purgatory but you still believe in some kind of purgatory there has to be some kind of purification that has to happen
after death for the person to go into heaven and then we're no longer arguing about purgatory we're arguing about the
just the nature and the details about purgatory but we both agree some kind of purgative process after death has to
exist now you will find some Protestants who say no it's not really sin if you elect you know basically just
denying that they still sin because they're saved D John says that's self-deception I
don't think I can do better than that and I think that's a pretty minority view even among Protestants so I would
start here the question is not uh can you go to heaven unclean the question is how do you get clean if you
die imperfectly purified Purgatory is I think a pretty clear answer to that question now the details of purgatory
are still unclear because look the details of the nature of time in the afterlife we still unclear I mentioned
this in another video but we want to uh put our concept of time onto the Saints in heaven and I think that's a mistake
and so maybe Purgatory is extremely fast from our perspective or extremely slow from our perspective and our perspective
is just going to be different than God's perspective and different than the perspective of the Saints who are going
through purgatory and the Saints in heaven because we process ESS time through our bodies and the Saints and
purgatorian in heaven with the exception of Mary who's assumed bodily into heaven the Saints
don't have bod so their experience of time is going to be radically different than our own so I think a lot of the
debates about whether Purgatory is fast or slow risk missing the point by applying a kind of a human standard of
time to the question either way once we're debating whether Purgatory is fast or slow we're no longer debating does
Purgatory exist and that's I'm trying to show here Purgatory of some kind necessarily exists if anyone is going to
be saved other than the perhaps very few people who are totally sin-free and detached from all sin by the time they
die the second argument that praying for the dead establishes the existence of purgatory and praying for the dead is
biblical so let's address this in two parts first why would praying for the dead establish the ex is the Purgatory
St Thomas aquinus in the Suma this is actually the very last question in the Suma he points out that there's no need
to pray for the Dead who are in heaven and there's no use praying for the Dead who are in hell right you the Saints in
heaven don't need your help and the Saints in hell can't use your help excuse me the souls in hell can't use
your your help so if someone has died and gone to hell it's too late remember Purgatory is not a doover for those
who've rejected Jesus Christ and the Saints in heaven don't need any special assistance because they're
necessarily we're believing in some kind of third category of those who are imperfectly purified who can actually
benefit from our prayers hopefully that's really clear I think experientially most people know
this Protestants typically do not pray for the dead because they don't believe in anything like Purgatory Catholics and
Orthodox as we're going to see uh traditional Jews also pray for the dead because we do believe in some kind of
purgative state we all three groups have different ideas of maybe what that looks like but again the details aren't what
biblical evidence for praying for the dead well there's one argument that I thought was
bad for a while until I I dove a little deeper on it and that's St Paul uh talking about
onerous and he speaks about him as if he's praying for him having died so in 2 Timothy 4: 19 he says greet P Prisa
Prisha and Aquilla and the household of onerous so he's not greeting onerous he's he's greeting his family now that
by itself is is pretty weak and for a while I thought that was all the argument was like okay well he's
greeting the the household of the guy he's like no no no go back to second Timothy chap 1 and you realize this is
actually a pretty convincing argument he speaks of the guy in past tense he says may the Lord grant Mercy to the
household of on aerus again he's praying for the Lord's Mercy for the guy's family for he often refreshed me he was
not ashamed of my chains but when he arrived in Rome he searched for me eagerly and found me and then he says
may the Lord grant him to find Mercy from the Lord on that day then he says' and you well know all the
service he rendered at Ephesus so notice he in the middle of describing the past Deeds that this guy did he has a prayer
that he'll find Mercy from God on Judgment Day that's the day of which Paul speaks we're going to get back to
the day and its importance in in Paul's kind of depiction of of our purification and all this but there's always this
relationship between our purification and Judgment day that we are being purified so that we can stand perfectly
pure for Judgment Day and here he is praying for this man for that and it looks like he's this would
be a very strange passage to write about someone living that's all I would say you know you could you hypothetically
sure but I'd be hardpressed to find anywhere where Paul or or really anybody else talks in this way about someone
who's you know walking the Earth so that's new in the Old Testament there's a much
clearer passage that unfortunately isn't in many Protestant Bibles before I get into it I just want to say a word on
this second mbes to deny it you would have to say both that it's not canonical it's not divinely inspired and that what
it's teaching is actually wrong and that's a really uphill battle it's one thing to say you don't think it belongs
in the Bible it's another thing to say you think it doesn't belong in the Bible and it's not inspired by God it's a
third thing to say you don't think it belongs in the Bible it's not inspired by God and it's teaching false Doctrine
and that's going to be a really hard position to hold in light of a wealth of biblical and early Christian evidence
we'll get into all that but first what is second mccabes have to say so to set the stage Judas macabus and his men are
fighting for the freedom of Israel and in chapter 12 beginning in verse 39 there's a description of the aftermath
of a ATT and Judas and his men they find a number of their fellow comrades have died in battle and in each case they
have these amulets these sacred tokens of the idols of Jamia which the law forbids the Jews to wear and so we're
told it became clear to all that this was why these men had fallen so these are men who are in this very strange
spiritual state where on the one hand they believe in God and are fighting for the freedom of Israel on the other hand
they've fallen into Superstition and are wearing these superstitious idolatrous kind of medals while I want
to make very clear they're fighting against the Greeks for making them compromise their Judaism so they're in
this strange position maybe like many of us where on the one hand we're fervently PR God but on the other hand we have
these strange compromises with evil that's the situation these men find themselves in and so what happens so
Judas and the men bless the ways of the Lord who reveals the things that are hidden and then they start praying for
them beseeching that the sin which had been committed might be wholly blotted out right like they don't know are these
guys going to go to hell are they going to go to heaven who knows let's pray for them let's pray for the purgation of
their sin that it'll be wholly blotted out that's what they're praying for explicitly in
12:41 and then uh Judas macabus tells the people to keep themselves free from sin because they just you know lesson
learned and then he takes up a collection uh to make a a sin offering and so so far we just have okay
here's what the leader did and you can say well sure plenty of leaders of Israel did imperfect things to say the
least but the text goes on to say in doing this he acted very well and honorably taking account of the
Resurrection for if he were not expecting that those who'd Fallen would rise again it would have been
Superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead right like if there isn't a judgment day if there isn't a final
Resurrection ction if this isn't all going to come to something then you're wasting your time praying for the
dead but in verse 45 if he was looking to The Splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness
was a holy and Pious thought therefore he made atonement for the dead that they might be delivered from their sin so
that's about as clear as you're going to get he prayed for the dead here's why he prayed for the dead here's what he's
purification so then the question is just well can we trust second mccabes and here I would just point out
a couple things first the New Testament trusts second mccabes here's what I mean in Hebrews 11 there is this list uh kind
of Hall of Fame of saints those who live by faith and and receive Divine approval so Hebrews 1:2 kind of lays out what the
whole chapter is about jumped down towards almost the very end verse 35 says women received their dead by
Resurrection some were tortured refusing to accept release that they might rise again to a better life now in the
preceding 34 verses as far as I can tell every example is from the Bible and then you get to verse 35 and if you're a
Protestant you might be saying I don't know what this passage is talking about well as Scholars point out that's
because it seems to allude to a couple of passages in second macbes and that we can track the language so there's a
debate about actually which of two different passages in second mccabes is most directly in view between Scholars
but the the idea that second macbes is what's behind Hebrews 11 is pretty widely held and Hebrews 11 is not alone
in John chapter 10 St John says it was the Feast of the dedication at Jerusalem it was Winter and Jesus was walking in
the temple so Jesus is in the temple for the Feast of dedication a wintertime Jewish feast what Feast is that well
that's the Feast of Hanukkah and strikingly if you read like the Jewish talet it describes this as like a
festival of lights and all of this the idea of it being the Feast of the dedication of the temple is pretty
explicitly from first and second mccabes and that's the only Old Testament passages that speak of Hanukkah because
the older books were written before the feast was established because the dedication is a dedication by the mbans
and that seems like pretty good um authentication of what sakab is talking about so remember like if you're going
to deny SE mabes it's not enough to say SE mabes isn't Canon the question here is not is SE mbes in the Bible or not
the question here is a much easier one is second mccabes telling the truth or not and it seems like we can point to
John Jesus in Hebrews 11 in support of the fact that second macbes was treated as authoritative as true at least and
seemingly in Hebrews 11 treated as scripture based on the way every other passage was was something from
scripture we also know the early Christians regularly referred to the books of mccabes and I mean very early
Christians so origin is a good example in Dave prip PES he says that we may believe in the authority of Holy
Scripture that such is the case hereo in the book of macbes dot dot dot so he's explicitly citing to these books uh in
this case second mabes as Holy Scripture you'll sometimes hear people say oh the early Christians used the books but they
didn't consider them scripture well first even if that were true that would still be enough like if they thought
they were reliable and these books are teaching something about how it's good to pray for the dead okay great that's
very good authority but it's also not true like the early Christians quoted these books a lot because they believed
that second mccabes is true and if second mabes is true then certainly praying for the dead in
purgatory very good you can also approach this from a Jewish perspective because there are a
number of Jewish prayers for the dead so Judas macabus was neither the first nor the last Pious Jew to pray for the dead
Ellen LaVine talks about this in What's called the mourner kadish uh in her essay Jewish views and Customs on death
so the MERS kadish when someone dies you pray for them and the custom if it's your parent who dies is to pray for them
for their soul for 11 months and the reason she explains is that it was thought that it at least a year of
purification was needed for the particularly Wicked and so if you pray for them for 12 months or more then that
suggest that you think your parents really need prayers to get out of this purification now again we don't have to
debate the details exactly what this purification looks like or how long anything like that the simple fact is
the mourner's kadish is proof of a Jewish belief in purgatory even if it's not usually called Purgatory by Jewish
malim which is means god full of compassion and apologies if I'm butchering the pronunciation there
Ronald Eisenberg in my Jewish learning talks about this how this is one of the prayers for the Departed that's recited
with a chant at funeral services as well as when you visit the graves of the Dead uh particularly dead relatives and he
explains what it is it's a plea that the soul of the departed be granted proper rest since the mere fact that a soul is
in Gan anden Paradise does not guarantee it complete contentment now that's going to be really important that paradise was
heaven and so even the soul in Paradise might be still in Need for prayers for proper rest you'll see why that's
relevant when we get to the good thief because there's often a conflation between paradise and
heaven so that's the second kind of Jewish Source the third one is from the Jewish encyclopedia Rabbi Kaufman ker uh
he gives a a pretty lengthy kind of explanation for the history of the Jewish belief in purgatory and he says
it's clearly expressed in some rabinal passages is in the teaching of the shemites that's the followers of the
House of shamai which in he quotes one of them and the last judgment day there shall be three classes of Souls the
righteous shall at once be written down for the life Everlasting the wicked for gehenna and
then this third category those who he says whose virtues and sins counterbalance one another shall go down
to gehenna and float up and down until they rise purified so again like then the image of this where they're kind of
purification fiery State and the text goes on to say for of them it is written and then there's a reference to
Zechariah 13 now I want to actually explore Zechariah 13 so we'll pause on that one and then the second passage
that's given is 1st Samuel 2 chapter 6 that he the Lord bringeth down to shaol and bringeth up again so this notion of
like a purification of something hell likee that's only temporary for this class of people who are not the
eternally damned there finding this based on scripture this is going to be really important for people claiming the
Catholic church just like made this up you know because it's one thing to say oh they indoctrinated all the Catholics
but are you going to say that they indoctrinated the talet they indoctrinated all the rabbis they
indoctrinated the house of shamai they indoctrinated Judas macabus before the Catholic Church even existed how does
this work exactly but yeah let's turn to Zechariah 13 because it's an interesting passage and I'd never really seen this
one used in in discussions on Purgatory but in Zechariah 13 and ver verse 8 the Lord promises that in the whole land
ominous and then of that saved third verse 9 says and I'll put this third Into the Fire and refine them as one
refin silver test them as gold is tested they will call my name and I will answer them I will say they are my people and
they will say the Lord is my God now this is a really important passage to take seriously because this is a
spiritual principle that we want to be very clear on that it is not the case that suffering is uniquely the province
uh when the disciples see the man born blind and then there's this question well was it because of his sin or his
parents s it's like neither for the glory of God likewise in Hebrews there's a discussion about how if you're a son
then you will expect to be disciplined that there's a category of suffering discipline that actually only applies to
those who are saved it only applies to those who are in right relationship with God so that's a very important thing to
get straight because it means that Purgatory is not a rejection of Christ saving action Purgatory is
only the result of Christ saving action like right like only because this 3D in Zechariah 13 are saved can they undergo
now whether that passage refers to Purgatory or not it's at least striking that you've got a group of rabbis who
naturally to the third argument for Purgatory this notion of those who are saved as Through Fire because think
about the back backround here of Zechariah 13 now look at what St Paul has to say in 1 Corinthians 3 he says
he's like a master builder he lays a foundation and another Builds on it but there's no other Foundation you can lay
other than that of Jesus Christ so we're only talking here about Christians that's an important thing to get
straight in 1 Corinthians 3 and how do you build on the foundation of Jesus Christ well you might do it in good way
with gold and silver and precious stones or you might do it in a shoddy way with wood and hay and stubble and Paul says
each man's work will become manifest for the day will disclose it again what does the day refer to Judgment Day because it
will be revealed with fire and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done read this with its Jewish
background right like among the saved there's this purifying fire and so he says if the work which any man has built
on the foundation survives he will will receive a reward now that's not just a reward of
Salvation because this whole group is saved if any man's work is burned up he will suffer loss though he himself will
be saved but only as through fire so there's some category of Christians who have the foundation of Jesus Christ who
are not going to hell who are in fact saved who will still after death before Judgment Day suffer loss they will
suffer in in some way and they will be saved but only as through fire so there's a third I think solid
argument for Purgatory Paul doesn't go into great detail about exactly what this will look like but the notion of
purifying fire seems fairly clear the fourth argument I want to kind of draw this notion of the uh the sun
being disciplined from Hebrews out and talk what we might call purgatory's First fruits I want to actually consider
an argument against Purgatory here made by the Anglican in right now I love in writing a lot of things on Purgatory I
think he's just wrong he has a book called for all the saints and he says in fact Paul makes it
clear here and elsewhere 1 Corinthians 3 here that it's a present life that is meant to function as a Purgatory the
sufferings of the present time not of some postmortem state are the valley we have to pass through in order to reach
the Glorious future now there's no need to make this in either or as Christians we would say yes the
present life should be purgatorial meaning you should be ever more purified from your attachment to sin as you grow
complete and so for them well they're either not going to go to heaven because they're not totally Pure or that
died Wright says the present life is bad enough from time to time goodness knows that imagining gloom and doom after
death as well it's a little bit of a caricature first of all the present life is bad enough for some people but there
are other Christians who even though they believe in Christ even though they are saved still live in such a way that
they've harmed other people and never made those debts right so either you have just a an everlasting
Injustice or there's some kind of healing some kind of Remedy that Justice demands in some way now there are ways
of taking that that would be mistaken but it's at least too simplistic to say the present life is
bad enough from time to time because for some people it's certainly is they are experiencing a purgation here on Earth
and others seemingly are not and then uh Wright says the thing I think is the most interesting that he thinks he knows
why Dante's middle volume Purgatory is is the one people most easily relate to because he says the myth of purgatory is
an allegory a projection from the present onto the future this is why Purgatory appeals to the imagination it
is our story it is where we are now if we are Christians if we believe in the Risen Jesus is Lord if we are baptized
members of his body then we are passing right now through the sufferings which form the gateway to life now there's a
the better version of right's argument in city of God centuries earlier but he just doesn't make it an either or he
says temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only by others after death by others both now and then
Day and he says but of those who suffer temporary punishments after death all are not doomed to those Everlasting
punishments which are to to follow that judgment for some as we've already said what is not remitted in this world is
remitted in the next that is they're not punished with the Eternal punishment of the world to come so that's an important
kind of concept to get straight that yes right is absolutely right that for this life we should be going through
Purgatory now St Augustine's just pointing out well some people don't and they do it later and some people
undermines almost every Protestant argument against Purgatory you can't say for instance Purgatory is evil because
it denies you know the purification Christ wins for us on the cross and then say in the same breath and also we
undergo Purgatory in this life well if Purgatory in this life is consistent with Christ dying for us on the cross
Purgatory after this life before we enter Heaven is also consistent with Christ dying for us on the cross I hope
hope that's clear that the fact that we experience some purgatorial process in this life and this seems abundantly
clear from the New Testament as well as just from Christian Living that should be good grounds to
realize that there's not a strong objection to Purgatory Purgatory does seem consistent with all of the biblical
evidence and and that's certainly how the early Christians understood it now with that said let's turn from the
biblical Arguments for Purgatory to the biblical arguments against Purgatory because there are several you can expect
to hear if you say you believe in purgatory the first one is the good thief on the cross and the good thief on
the cross I think is one of the most misused kind of passages in scripture but this is one that I fell for as a kid
I was I believe I was homesick from church one day and because I couldn't go to a church I watched a Protestant TV uh
like worship service and the preacher was preaching against purgatory and he looked to this
passage and he he looked to Luke 23 in which the good thief says to Jesus Jesus Remember me when you come in your kingly
power and Jesus says to him truly I say to you today you'll be with me in paradise and the preacher was like aha
there's no Purgatory because he says today the thief's going to be with him in paradise and as a kid as you know
maybe 12 I thought oh that's pretty good it seems like the Catholic belief in purgatory is unfounded well later I
realized that the preacher was making two really big assumptions that I was also making as you know a kit first that
today meant the same thing to Jesus that it would mean here on Earth that today is you know Good Friday that on Good
Friday the thief is going to be with Jesus and Paradise and the second assumption is that paradise means Heaven
that the thief and Jesus are going up to heaven on Good Friday well what blew apart that was
hold me for I have not yet ascended to the father boom it was like oh okay I guess Jesus and the good thief didn't go
directly from the cross to heaven and in fact this verse isn't alone St Paul says in Ephesians 4 that when we talk about
Christ ascending what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the Earth in other words
not just the descendant and Jesus coming down from heaven to become man but there's a further descent after Good
Friday or on Good Friday and which he goes down and you might be saying what in the world is Jesus doing going down
some Protestants believe usually the calvinist variety that he's going down to Hell to suffer punishment in some
way that's not what scripture says 1 Peter 3 says he goes to preach to the spirits in prison
so that's what Jesus is doing after he dies for sins once for all he goes and preaches this message of Liberation to
you know the idea that Jesus and the good thief have gone to heaven but there are a few other passages that are
relevant as well remember that idea that today for us means the same thing as today for god well it doesn't second
Peter 3 is really clear with the Lord one day as as a thousand years and a thousand years or as one day remember I
said this earlier when we talk about purgatory the constant temptation is to impose our categories of time upon these
spiritual realities and that's a mistake the other mistake is assuming that the word Paradise automatically necessarily
used he describe so he's quoting from the Greek version of Genesis and and it says so the word Paradise means Garden
or like a Walled Garden and he says the Lord God planted Paradise in Eden and that's what the Greek version of Genesis
says that Eden is the first reference to paradise and so he says the place Paradise was made in respect of beauty
intermediate between Earth and Heaven so Paradise was understood to be this place of blessedness this place of beauty this
place that is superior to Earth but was still inferior to heaven now to be clear I'm not saying Paradise always
necessarily means that you can use Paradise to refer to heaven but Paradise doesn't automatically mean that so the
state of the righteous so remember what Jesus dies on the cross and he goes and preaches this message of Liberation to
those spirits who are in prison well they're not in hell because these are the people he's
bringing with him to heaven but Jesus opens the Gates of Heaven and so it's important that we get
that right so it it is accurate I think to describe where Jesus and the good thief go even on Good Friday as Paradise
as long as you don't think they mean Heaven as long as you understand they mean the place of the righteous dead
sometimes called the bosom of Abraham based on the Gospel of Luke that place some's called the limbo
of the fathers this place of waiting it's like a wall the garden a place of comfort that is superior to Earth but
isn't equal to heaven so all of that's to say however you understand uh the passage you just can't use the good
thief to debunk the existence of purgatory one last point on the good thief it would be fine from a Catholic
perspective if the good thief immediately went to heaven because usually the argument is look the good
thief he just believes and even though he lived this life of crime and sin he believes he says he believes and
therefore he goes to heaven shouldn't he have gone to Purgatory I don't think the answer to that is yes remember as St
excruciating death of torture on the cross for his sins crying out in faith amidst to suffering and what's more
giving comfort and defending Jesus publicly on Good Friday he did more than most of us will ever hope to
do in a very short span of time so if you were to tell me that was his purgation that was his suffering I'm say
yeah that makes sense that's fine none of that disproves Purgatory the Catholic belief in purgatory is not every single
Saint goes to Purgatory so if you found someone who didn't go to Purgatory that we would not debunk the existence of
doesn't exist no offense to people from Cincinnati it's just the first city that came to
mind I don't know how purgatorial Cincinnati is so that's the the first objection the good thief just doesn't
prove first because he doesn't seem to have gone to heaven with Jesus on Good Friday but second because even if he
this line accredited to St Paul that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord and the answer here is
this is a misquotation it's a misquotation of the King James version of 2 Corinthians 5
ver8 in which St Paul says we are confident I say and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present
with the Lord but notice he's saying it'd be great to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord he does
not say everyone who is absent from the body is present with the Lord the problem here is partly that
we're using King James English and a lot of people using this get tripped up to use the rsvce you can use any number of
Modern English translations it might be clearer where the logical error is that one says we are of good courage
and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord but again if you say I would rather have Italian
food than Mexican food tonight I don't know why you'd say that but if you did that does not mean that everyone who's
not having Italian food is having Mexican food or vice versa it just means you'd prefer a to B that's all that's
all you're saying you're not saying everyone who's not in a is in b or everyone not in B is in a you're not
saying that at all so to say I would rather be in heaven than on Earth which who wouldn't agree with that doesn't
prove that heaven and Earth are the only two possibilities because of course they aren't it's possible to be absent from
the body and in hell so it's outrageous it is totally obviously wrong to use 2 Corinthians 5
to say the only two states are here in the body or in heaven what's going on here is partly that people are getting
tripped over king jimes English I think and partly they're taking verse eight completely out of context if you read
the context in first in second Corinthians excuse me chapter 5 it starts with St Paul talking about how if
the Earthly tent we live in meaning our Earthly unglorified body is destroyed we have a building from God a house not
made with hands Eternal in the heavens that is our glorified body here indeed we grown and long to put on our Heavenly
dwelling so that by putting it on we may not be found naked so as we're in our unglorified body with all its weaknesses
we look forward to that day where we will have our glorified body that's specifically what 2 Corinthians 5 is
talking about and then he says we know while we're at home in the body we're away from the Lord right like if you are
still in your unglorified body here on Earth you're necessarily not in heaven if you're having Italian food you're not
having Mexican food whatever right he then says we would rather be away from the body and at home with the
Lord so when he says that does that mean the body in heaven are the only two possibilities of course it doesn't
because again you've got hell and you have the existence we have in heaven before we get our glorified body because
in the very next two verses St Paul makes clear when we're going to get the glorified body he says we must all
appear before the Judgment seat of Christ so that each one may receive good or evil according to what he has done in
the body now notice he's not saying everyone not in the body automatically goes to heaven automatically gets good
things when he talks about receiving evil at this time of judgment he means one of two things when we appear before
the Judgment seat of Christ either like 1 Corinthians 3 he's talking about the saved receiving some kind of
loss this purgation before their final judgment or or and or he means those who lose everything and go to hell But
whichever of those he means he clearly is not saying everyone who is not in their Earthly body is fully experiencing
Heavenly glory in their Heavenly Body no this is clearly not what he's saying so that passage just doesn't mean what
people say it means and they're usually misquoting it when when they quote it likewise with Philippians chapter 1 uh
verse 21 to 23 he's St Paul says for to me to live as Christ and to die is gain if it is to be life In the Flesh
that means fruitful labor for me yet which I shall choose I cannot tell I'm hardpressed between the two my desire is
to depart and be with Christ for that is far better but notice he still doesn't say the only two possibilities are
Earthly life or Heavenly Glory because there's obviously the third category of Hell which both Catholics and
Protestants typically believe in so Paul's not intending to deny hell he's saying he would rather be in heaven than
on earth that is a pretty uncontroversial kind of claim and doesn't prove those are the only two
possible places for a soul to be that's the second objection the third one didn't Christ do it all and here I want
to turn to the argument made by Mike gendin when he's asked why he doesn't believe in purgatory and apologies in
sufficiency of our Lord Jesus Christ it is created by the Roman Catholic religion as an intermediate place where
people who die in God's grace but who have committed venial sins will go there and have their sins purged away so that
they can be prepared for heaven but it goes against the Bible because in 1 John 1:7 it says the blood of Jesus Christ
purifies us from all sin not most Sins Not many Sins Not some sins the blood of Jesus purifies us from all sin and then
we also see in Hebrews 13 when Jesus obtained purification for our sins he sat down at the right hand of the Father
in heaven when the high priest sits down the work is done okay so that's the argument and the first thing to notice
is that the argument doesn't make a lot of sense and I mean that because of the thing I said earlier with the inti thing
there's a purification that goes on in your life as a Christian now however you understand that process whether it's
just the moment you get saved or whether it's the ongoing work of sanctification this purgatorial process this process of
purification continues long after 33 ad or whatever year Jesus dies on the cross so to say oh the work is complete it's
finished and therefore there's no need to purify me of my sin that's outrageously wrong in fact I would even
argue it's satanic and I'd argue that on the basis of scripture because this idea of like trying to get the glory without
the cross is at the heart of the satanic deception we know this in several ways one way we know it is Matthew chapter 16
so you know this remember St Peter gets Jesus as the Christ right and he gets lted he it's called The Rock there's all
this stuff it's really great and then in verse 21 from that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to
Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes and be killed and on the third day be
raised and Peter you know ring high off of his glory took him aside and began to rebuke him saying God forbid Lord this
shall never happen to you Jesus turns and says to Peter get behind me Satan you are a hindrance to me for you
are not on the S side of God but of men as men we want the glory without the cross St Peter wants that for Jesus and
thinks he's doing him a favor by trying to tell him hey you don't need to worry about that you can get the glory without
disciples after uh Peter James and John go up and they see the Transfiguration of Jesus they're coming down Jesus
charges them to tell no one what they had seen until the son of man should have risen from the dead and the three
of them start quietly trying to figure out what this rising from the dead thing meant they just saw Jesus in glory and
then he immediately starts talking about dying and rising from the dead but they don't want to ask him about it they
don't want to hear that bad news so instead they ask him well why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come
but Jesus wants him to talk about it so he says yeah Elijah does come to First restore all things things and then he
asked them and how is it written of the son of man that he should suffer many things and be treated with contempt like
he won't let them take the glory without the cross won't let them do it and even on Easter Sundays he's walking with two
disciples on the road to Emmas he asks was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter
into his glory so Jesus doesn't get Easter without Good Friday and he won't let us run away from that fact because
we want to skip past that we want to have a cross to proclaim the empty tune and not be faced with the horrors of a
crucifix we want to have the glory without the cross but that's not what we're called
to and it's not just Jesus's cross it's also our cross Jesus did not die on the cross to be our substitute so we didn't
have to have a cross Jesus dies on the cross so we can take up our cross and follow him and this is abundantly clear
from scripture Romans 8 will start there St Paul is saying that we didn't receive the spirit of Slavery to fall back into
fear but we receive the spirit of sunship what does it mean to have the spirit of sunship well he tells us in
the next verses that it means we are children of God and if children then heirs Hees of God and fellow heirs with
Christ and I want to stop the passage there but Paul won't let me he says provided we suffer with him in order
that we may also be glorified with him that is Good Friday and Easter Sunday are not just meant for Jesus Good Friday
and Easter Sunday are also meant for you you need to go through suffering you need to be purified and make it
to Heavenly Easter glory to uh St Timothy St Paul says in second Timothy Chapter 2 take your share
of suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus just says it outright anyone telling you hey you don't need all this
suffering and purification is selling you a demonic lie this is the LIE of Satan that God forbid Lord is not coming
entangled in civilian Pursuit since his aim is to satisfy the one who enlisted him got a higher calling an athlete is
not crowned unless he competes according to the rules so you got to live in a certain way it is a hardworking farmer
who ought to have the first share of the crops so St Paul is making this point that doesn't sound at all like the
Christianity preached by Mike gendan but I'd say it's not just Paul here it's also Jesus Jesus in Matthew 16 in the
passage I already alluded to verse 24 says if any man would come after me let him deny himself and take up his cross
and follow me right like this is how he responds to Peter wanting to have the glory with without the cross that it's
not just that Peter wants Jesus to have the glory without the cross Peter wants Peter to have the glory without the
cross and Jesus says not only do I need the cross for the Salvation of the world but we need the cross as well to be
Disciples of Jesus now Mike gin is free to believe and Protestants are free to believe this
is somehow repugnant to the completed work of Christ but this is scripture Colossians 1 St Paul says in verse 24 I
rejoice in my sufferings for your sake and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ's affliction
for the sake of his body that is the church what is lacking isn't something Jesus failed to do what is lacking is
this the body of Christ Ephesians 1 the whole Christ is Christ ahead with the church's body Jesus has gone through all
anything that he did wrong as the high priest but look like with the high Priestly sacrifice the priest had a
certain role he played but the people for whom the priest was offering had a certain role they played as well so for
instance in some of the food offerings the priest would sacrifice or offer it up and then he and the people might eat
of it or the people's sacrifice might be to bring their best stuff their first fruits their first leans their unspotted
unblemished lamb and so they're offering something which then the priest offers so the priest has a certain role but so
does the Layman and so saying Christ is our high priest does not mean we have nothing to sacrifice it doesn't mean
that at all if you understand the way a sacrificial system kind of works and so all of that's to say we're not promised
immunity from suffering we're promised instead that if we are Sons we'll be disciplined so all of that's to say now
there's different angles you can go with sacrifice suffering and the like but we you can't just say Christ did it all so
I've got nothing to do that's not it at all and so if purgatory is repugnant to your theological system it might be
because your theological system hasn't taken seriously the need for the cross on our way to Heavenly Glory that Romans
8 says we'll only share in the glory of Christ provided we suffer with them finally second Corinthians 1 uh
verse 5 says as we share abundantly in Christ suffering so through Christ we share abundantly in Comfort too there's
this connection you share in the comfort of Christ you share even more than that in the glory of Christ you share in that
Easter Glory if you share in the Good Friday as well there's no escaping it and so this notion of our need to be
purified is it's all right there and then the last thing I say in response to this is the mistake is imagining that
for some reason when I'm purified here on Earth Jesus is doing it but if I'm purified in purgatory I'm doing it not
still Jesus doing it I freely cooperate with it but he by his grace and by his Sovereign power is the one purifying me
I'm the recipient of that purification whether here on Earth or in purgatory so it's a mistake to imagine
that in purgatory we're somehow earning our way to heaven no whether your purgation is here or Hereafter Jesus is
the purifier you are the one being the purified that's one of the weaker arguments I will leave you with maybe
the strongest argument which is the argument from Silent scripture be clear on it hey I agree scripture could be
clearer on a lot of things if you read the Old Testament and say what does hell look like what is Paradise even you know
this look like the New Testament is often less clear than I'd like it the Old Testament even more
so and so yeah the argument from Silence is just a reflection of a simple Le fact many times we expect the bible to read
like a theology textbook that it's just going to say propositionally believe this believe that believe the other
thing and it usually doesn't read like that it has stories it has narratives it has genealogies it has all these things
that are making points that often take a lot of reflection or you'll get these little passing glimpses like in a
absolutely I don't even disagree with this one but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist
it' be a mistake to say anything uh about the spiritual life or about the afterlife that isn't really clearly
spelled out in scripture isn't real right because even something like what Heavenly Glory looks like there's a lot
of confusion among that amongst Christians what hell looks like you all of that's to say when you actually go
back and drill down and say how often do scripture directly explain this stuff it's a lot less common than you might
imagine but that's not an argument against scripture just as an argument that what we expect the Bible to be is
four arguments are strong arguments against Purgatory if I've missed anything please in the comments I
believe in you commenters feel free to uh point out some additional arguments I haven't made uh or anything I I might
have missed I there's actually much more that could be said in favor of purgatory but I wanted to give kind of a simple
case because I think it it really comes down to that very first one right now you are not as pure as you need to be to
be in the presence of God and if you think you are you really are not as pure as you need to be to be in the presence
of God and because of that you need to be purified either now or if if you're not done yet you need to be purified
before you go into heaven all the way for Sheamus poy I'm Joe hesar God bless you Happy All Souls day if you're