Building a Blockchain-Enabled Electricity Market: Insights from Power Ledger

good afternoon and were good evening depending on where you find yourself in the world thank you all so much for

joining us my name is Sophia Erin and I'm a senior analyst at the global blockchain Business Council it's my

pleasure to welcome you to today's GBC virtual members forum this is a bi-weekly webinar series showcasing the

innovative work of our members around the world and today we have the pleasure to be joined by Anya Nova crypto

economist and business development at power ledger for a presentation on how power ledger is building a blockchain

enabled electricity market before we begin I would briefly like to introduce Anya Anya is a crypto economist and also

works in business development power ledger she's a strong advocate for renewable

energy and blockchain adoption and regularly speaks at blockchain and energy events representing power ledger

Anya is a director of blotching Australia an organization aimed at advancing blockchain adoption and prior

to power ledger Anya advised technology startups and large corporations in a variety of

international commercial roles Anya is also the recipient of the 2019 Australian block team leader of the Year

award we are so pleased to have Anya here with us today and we welcome your questions at any point during today's

webinar we kindly ask that you submit them in the Q&A box at the bottom of your zoom screen and we'll take them at

the end of Anya's presentation without further ado I'd like to hand things off to her to begin thank you yeah thank you

for the introduction I'm super happy to be here always loved talking about what we do and it's really nice to have an

audience that we typically don't get to speak with so I'm imagining there's quite a lot of people dialing in from

the states so hi everyone and thanks for getting up so early in the morning so let me share my screen so I'll just

start by talking a little bit about who we are so we a relatively young company got established a few years ago out of

Australia but since we have really been taken over the world we're in nine countries now and we have

24 large customers across the globe really I think one of the advantages of being in Australia was that we saw a

transition happening in the energy markets really early and that's because press is just

such a sunny place so lots of people were choosing to install rooftop solar so close to a third of Australian house

is now have rooftop solar and on the back of that we saw a major shift happening in energy networks energy

network stability and the energy markets so if you think about it pretty much for the last 100 years we had a very

centralized energy system where you had a central generator whether it's a poor part you know qualified power plant and

energy was moving from that plant down through the network to the individual households of businesses and the

households the businesses were just taking the energy and then paying for it and all the financial transactions were

moving the other way and since the solar panels have gotten so much cheaper over the last few years close to I think 80

percent cheaper because they're manufactured in China and there's some efficiencies there that more and more

people are choosing to install them we're just changing the market entirely you know and some people might install

solar because they're very environmentally conscientious and there's there are good reasons to that

because a kilowatt hour of renewables that you use is actually saving close to half a kilo of co2 emissions so a

kilowatt I find that it helps to talk about it and kind of human terms kilowatt hours really how much the

refrigerator typically needs every hour so if you think about it Madrid is running and saving half a kilo of co2

emissions that's quite substantially you know if they are sourced from renewables so some people have really strong

environmental motivations others are really driven by the whole idea of sustained of being self-sufficient you

know they don't want to be caught out if there is a blackout for example so I grew up on a when a little island north

of Japan and blackouts were really Coleman so I just grew up with Quinten blackouts but you know it

we don't want that anymore we kind of used to the fact that well Energy's all this day it's always available we always

know how much we're paying for it and there you know there are costs to us getting so comfortable with the energy

and I'll kind of explore those a bit later but basically in the third reason why people install solar is really to

pay less for their energy you know so you can get close to 20% less on your energy bill every month the future

students still salon so that was sudden everyone's doing it around the world and what we see

happening you know remember that kind of centralized system that I've described before energy move in one way and

financial transactions luminaire way so now we have multiple people becoming both the consumer of energy and the

generator of energy so the energy has to move both ways and the financial transactions have to move both ways and

really there has been nothing out there to facilitate that happening there hasn't been any marketplace available

for that so this huge transition is both a challenge it's a challenge for the grid

its charge for the grid because in the energy sector the generation all this has to equal consumption otherwise we

have blackouts so then when all the solar comes online in the middle of the day the traditional generation has to

run down ethically and then when all the solar disappears in the evening and has to ramp up so that's a major challenge

for the grid you know and that's why we have all this kind of redundancies in the system and then from a kind of

household point of view well if I'm a person that has installed solar and I'm offsetting my own consumption my bill is

lower but then what happens if I'm not home during the day or if I'm going on vacation and I have all this excess

solar and maybe you know I get paid for it when I sew it back to my energy retailer and the energy retailer might

set some sort of price for it that price is really subsidized by the government so the government gives gives us money

to incentivize us to install renewables but what we see happening around world is that because that subsidy is

taxpayer based it's not gonna last forever so the subsidy kind of tends to start quite large and then it gets

smaller and smaller and smaller and then eventually disappears all together like it has done recently in Japan and people

are left with no way to monetize their solar panels so that that was a very long intro to say why I'm so excited to

work apology and that's because I think in a very real way we help people monetize the investment that they make

in the solar panels and batteries faster and by doing that we actually incentivizing people to buy more solar

panels and buy more batteries which decarbonize is the whole world so as I mentioned we only a few years old but we

have kind of grown pretty quickly and that was a strategic decision that we've done so we started off in Australia and

then we moved north and the Asia region and I'll talk about some of our projects a little bit later but we're in Japan

Malaysia Thailand India where we've kind of progressed into Europe and then more recently we have kicked off a number of

projects in the United States so you know why blockchain for energy trading so as I mentioned now we have people who

are both buyers and sellers so we need to create an entirely new marketplace to allow them to transact in energy and if

you are creating an entirely new marketplace then you can build it using some of the traditional tools or you can

actually build it using blockchain technology and both chain technology is has a number of benefits because you

have lots of transactions that are being tracked in a very accurate way you have an immediate audit trail that's baked

into that you have a financial settlement way in folders micro transactions and then further down the

road I'll explain how blockchain really comes into its own with virtual power plants which is

really trading energy but using the household batteries or electric vehicles so the blockchain technology started off

really small just a few years ago it was valued at about 200 million dollars u.s. and it's expected to grow to 18 billion

by 2025 so as I mentioned we really kind of do three major things and I'll come to that on the next slide but the

blockchain has benefits that are slightly different for each one of them so it's the establishment of the market

marketplace and then some of the verification that we do around the energy source and when the energy was

produced and timestamp in it too then providing a particular algorithm for the settlement of those energy trades that

is transparent and can be verified by the auditor by the households by energy retailers and by all the major players

in that energy sector so really it at a kind of fundamental level where our journey starts and a technology solution

is by reading smart meters and smart meters is something that everyone has it's a meter that can record your

consumption your energy consumption and I remember from my childhood you know it was just a little meter that was sitting

at the entrance to the house and was just kind of spinning and recording consumption and now it's basically the

meter that records consumption generation and has some sort of ability to communicate so it's connected to some

sort of communication device so it's built into that and that's where the word smart comes into that so it's a

smart meter I mean meaning it can push data I was particular frequency and all we do

is that we take that data and we put that on the platform and we work with with any type of meter you know and

whether it's pushing data every 15 minutes every five minutes and every five seconds we actually think

that in the future meters will be pushing data really rapidly and that's gonna help us optimize the entire energy

system and remove some of the redundancies that have to be baked into that map so we take the data and the

first thing we do is that we verify that the energy has indeed been produced at that time at that location so it sounds

pretty simple but it's a really valuable service for a number of reasons so some of our energy retailers provide

premium products so one of our partners in France equity they have a premium energy product that you pay extra for

and that helps you confirm that indeed what you're buying is 100% renewable and it's been produced locally and our

technology facilitates kind of the back end of that so as an individual I can go and I can go okay so I want 50% of my

energy let's say to come from hydro because I want to support hydro and then 50% of my energy to come from my local

community generator or whatever that is that split might be and then in real time we equip generation against

consumption so you can actually be sure that you're not paying extra for nothing you actually paying extra every five

minute interval because clean local energy has indeed been generated at the time and I think by providing that kind

of granularity and that kind of provenance we can help more people we can incentivize more people to start

buying renewable and local so then after the the sort of that verification part which we call the vision feature over

the platform we move on to the trading and the trading can be done in a number of ways it's really an energy

marketplace with buyers and sellers so as a household with solar I can set the

minimum price at which I'm willing to sell my excess and a maximum price at which I'm willing to buy it and then the

algorithm that we've built looks at all the available renewable energy every five minutes and then distributes that

equitably if it if it matches my price thresholds and and if it does I either get credited or debited depending on

what I'm selling or buying energy so I'll talk about some of those projects globally in particular one of the

largest ones in the world if not the largest peer-to-peer energy trading projects in the world is happening in

Bangkok and Thailand and that's wrong using our software then kind of the third part after the traceability

trading is the renewable energy certificates so the renewable energy certificates is something that is it's a

scheme that has been developed globally to facilitate investment in renewables so it's a large renewable generator I

can I can receive those certificates I'm eligible to receive them and they typically one stick and represents one

megawatt hour clean energy that's been generated and then I can sell that certificate to which have an entity is

actually obliged to buy them whether it's you know a retailer that has to ensure that they bind a portion of their

energy from renewable sources by virtue of bionis difficut so it could be a polluter that has to buy them so that

that process in itself is been working okay but it could be working a lot better and I'll go into that in detail a

bit later so as I described this is the vision feature of our product I suppose an another thing that people really like

about the vision feature is the dynamic pricing so we've run experiments where we've let people set their

as frequently as they want and and you start to observe really interesting behaviors because you know in the past

you might have heard what people don't care about anything well people actually really care about

energy if they have their own an output from operates out of a web browser so you have your own login details and

learning also two interesting things from a behavioral point of view so some people log n you know 20 times a day and

they change their buy and sell prices and they really enjoy that process of trying to kind of do a bit of energy

arbitrage and trying to sell their access for as much as they can while other people set the price once you know

once a year and just forget all about it and they just happy for the trades to be executing they say oh I'm just getting

paid at the end of the month but not every market place that we all curate has that feature because some people

really prefer just a simple straightforward I have access energy you know as long as there is a buyer then

I'm willing to sell it so another thing to just mention on the energy trading I find that sometimes it helps to speak

like throw a concrete example so let's say I'm I'm a household with excess solar so I can either kind of push that

solar to the grid and not necessarily for a small subsidy for it and I have a neighbor who has an installed solar

because he can't afford it or maybe his house is in the shade and he's paying 25 cents per kilowatt hour at the same time

as I'm pushing energy for free back to the grid most likely because we are neighbors he's actually using my energy

but who's collecting the payment well it's the retailer who's facilitating the collection of the payment and the energy

accounting but if there was a way to for me to set my own price let's say 15 cents and sold it to the neighbor what

happens is I'm 15 cents better or every kilowatt hour and my neighbor just saved 10 cents if they were buying for 25

cents typically so that's kind of like just a trade between two individuals and then you can

kind of roll it up because then you can look at trading between two apartment blocks and then you can roll it out

there and high and then you can start seeing suburbs trade with each other so really the the platform and the core

functionality doesn't change from layer to layer it's how you choose to aggregate those meters that changes and

VPP that's a virtual power plan that's probably one of my personally favorite features of the platform that's energy

trading way to the household battery and household batteries have a huge role to play in great stability so it's really

great when people do choose to install them however household batteries tend to be expensive so I'm talking kind of ten

thousand dollars and outboard so no not everyone's gonna make their decision to install Nick coming down in price as

well but but it's still quite a big decision for most households and what we find in is that if you allow people to

monetize their battery faster than they're going to make their decision to buy the battery so we do not through our

bpp product and people can get paid in a number of different ways for head in the household battery so one way that's

particularly relevant in countries where you have really kind of peaky wholesale energy prices is that households can

sell the energy like let's say I'm notified by college a platform that right now the energy price is in a

wholesale market are really high so some of the energy retailers might actually be struggling with buying enough so that

they can supply to their customer base so if you sell the energy that's stored in your battery right now instead of

using it to that retailer that retail are going to give you a really good price for it so an example of that is in

Australia a few times a year we have energy prices that go up all the way to 40

in dollars a kilowatt hour so that's really high if you think about a retailer that has to buy that energy for

$14 a kilowatt hour and sell it for 25 cents a kilowatt a kilowatt hour that's a really tough place for them so if

instead we can help households work together with retailers to alleviate some of those high prices and share the

savings between them that we're kind of helping that smaller Chea to energy retailers well at the same time helping

the households pay off the battery much faster maybe in a few years rather than kind of a decade so that's on the energy

arbitrage that a thing and then the other bit that that's really exciting to me because I've been looking at that

more and more recently is the grid stability services so as I mentioned with all this soul are coming online in

the middle of the day if the grid needs a lot more support to remain stable and that's kind of around the frequency

control and up to now really it's just the larger players that could participate in providing that service to

the grid so you know you have to have a really large battery if you wanted to kind of build on that market and get

paid for providing that service so you might have heard you know around the world kind of really large battery

players doing that so but but what about this the smaller guy so if if I'm a family with a 10 kilowatt hour battery

but if I'm working in conjunction with another 10 families and all of a sudden we have a battery that's a hundred

kilowatt hour battery you know and thousand thousand miles it's like a megawatt hour battery well then what's

next right and as long as people can kind of be brought together to act as one then we have the virtual power plant

and that's what the virtual kind of bit that's where it comes together so we don't need to be co-located we just need

to be acting as one if we can act as one we can start bidding for provision of those services and getting paid from the

great manager for providing them at a really good rate and and of course there is a lot of

things that need to come together to make this happen there needs to be a really efficient system of notifications

so I need to be notified when that's occurring I need to be able to opt-in and opt-out there needs to be a

financial settlement layer that's really transparent and robust so as I'm providing that service I need

to be kind of confirmed that I have provided it and I need to be getting paid for that as close to real-time as

possible because we find in that if people are getting paid in real time they're much more likely to participate

so that's the virtual powerplant feature platform and and of course that kind goes pretty seamlessly into the

electric vehicles so electric vehicle is really a household battery on wheels so it can do a lot it can even do a lot

more as long as you know as long as you always know that you have the right charge to go from point A to point B or

whatever you want to be anything else that's left in the battery can be used to either do energy arbitrage or

frequency control services and there is a number of experiments that have been run in Denmark in particular with Nissan

Leaf which has that bi-directional kind of ability to charge and discharge where people were able to make up to two

thousand dollars a year just for casually participating casually participating means you're not even

changing your behavior you're just opting in or you just opted in to actually be a part of that great

stability exercise so think about it on a car that's not very expensive making $2,000 for not changing your behavior at

all it's a really attractive proposition so there is a number of big projects starting to happen globally and still

pretty early but I think it's a it's a super exciting space to watch and so we come into the environmental commodities

trading so that's the renewable energy certificates and as mentioned large renewable energy

generators so let's say you have a wind turbine or life's full of LOM you're actually entitled to receive those

certificates but the process of receiving them is quite cumbersome so you have to have a audit done obviously

and then you get those certificates from a registry and then you try to sell those certificates to through a broker

dealer that's how the process currently works it's okay process but I pull out the broker dealer broker dealer comes

back to me says okay I found a buyer out of ice to pay that much for the tickets and I go okay well that's fine let's do

that and I saw those certificates so there is some it's just not as efficient as it could be so we've spoken to a

number of customers and they told us that you know they could be losing 10 to 15% of the value of their certificates

just through the fact that you know they've either done the audit and they haven't actually got all the

certificates that they were entitled to because they've made a mistake in that audit process or you know the broker

dealer might not have found the best price for them that's available on the market or they you know they did get the

good price but then they had to wait three to six months to get paid so we think that by automating the process of

minting the certificates as the energy is being generated by using the data from smart mirrors we can actually

improve improve that that entire kind of value proposition we think we thinking we can make it a lot cheaper for the

green energy generators to receive their certificates so let's say produce like a kilowatt hour then right away we

register on the blockchain and we tokenize that micro certificate right and then are produced another kilowatt

hour would do that right away and then eventually aggregates to one megawatt hour and that's an entire kind of token

our certificate and then we have a 24/7 from a marketplace for trade in those token are certificates and I found what

trace axe product so because it's a kind of a fully transparent marketplace you can

actually see the price that you're getting for that certificate instantaneously as a buyer I know that

that certificate is valid that it hasn't been sold to someone else and then when I buy and then when I retire it against

my obligations no one else can buy the certificate again so we think that blockchain is really an

ideal technology just to kind of improve on the renewable energy measurement verification and trading process and

here are some of our projects these are some of our Australian projects to begin with so this battery that's operating

using college' software is actually just a few kilometers away from me in the City of Fremantle Western Australia so

often I I cycle by the battery and have a look at it then we have a number of apartment buildings that we provide

energy trading platform for then we have the worgen Fields project in regional Western Australia that has really helped

that community bring new business because previously they were losing businesses to other stripes and they

were able through improving their energy kind of their local energy network they were able to incentivize current

businesses to either stay or expand then we have the Maddington that's a solar farm in Perth where the company ecology

is based a social utilising college a platform using in particular division feature then we have the vicinity

shopping centers vicinity is really keen on ensuring that all the tenants can buy renewables if they want to so if you

think of a shopping center really is as massive roof space so it's perfect for installing solar and then the operator

over that shopping centre can start selling solar to individual tenants and it can

start selling it at different terms as well so if I'm a cosmetics brand that is super interested in being hundred

percent sustainable and that's how I advertise then I might actually bid more for any renewable energy that's been

generated at the moment and that's available we have some more apartments and that's probably the project that I

wanted to touch on in a bit more detail because it is the largest appear to be energy trading project that's going on

globally that was a new development built by our partner BCBG in the middle of Thailand so there are six new

building failures a school and a Dental Hospital and an a permanent building and a shopping center and two more buildings

and BCBG typically a renewable developer would install solar and then they would sign long-term agreements with whoever's

using the solar and those long-term agreements you know they could be a little bit unpredictable from a point of

view of return on investment for the development because they don't quite know how much energy would be consumed

by the tenant themselves might not necessarily know how much they're gonna need so we do risks that entirely for

all parties but that's I think this particular project is a really good example of win-win-win because the

developer is selling all of the energy that's being generated to the tenant the tenants paying for everything that's

being generated but in turn when the tenant is kind of understandably worried about what if I don't use all of it they

use an hour platform then to sell any access they have for more than what they have paid for it to the developer and of

course you know once everyone moved in that's exactly what happened where certain parties figured out oh I'm

actually needing to use a lot more energy on Thursday and a lot less on Tuesday or whatever that might be and

then the the trading of image you really started happening so every time we do like a platform demo and you can

actually see the energy trade happening every 15 minutes and it's quite highball I find that really pretty

exciting especially because I think this project kind of highlights opportunities in their developing countries like

Thailand to sort of rethink and recreate something that was pretty standard in the completely new way so we're

replicating that model with BCBG across the island in a number of locations including Chan Y University and while

we're in Japan Malaysia India we have a number of projects in Europe European market is

really interesting because you're super interested in provenance so you know people want to know where is my food

coming from where is my honey coming from where's my clothes coming from and we're finding that more and more people

really care about where is my energy coming from and they want that same kind of degree of understanding of what

they're consuming and we aim to provide a really integrated and engaging experience through the platform so

people want to spend time and they want to understand their own consumption and and where the energy has been coming

from and as I mentioned we have a number of pretty exciting partnerships in the United States and this is our team this

is our beautiful blue wall that's actually right behind my desk and and our lovely team of business developers

and business development and then engineers and the analyst team so with that I would love to take some questions

if you have any and thank you so much for your for your attending and felicity thank you honey thank you so much um

we've had quite a few questions come in so I'll kind of just go down the list and we'll start off so the first person

said thank you onion thank you to power ledger for today's presentation they're wondering if power ledger is

involved in Taiwan or has plans to be involved in Taiwan as they seem to be really motivated to be green and

efficient across that's a great question so we had a number of early conversations with

Taiwan but nothing has eventuated yet but we are continuing those conversations just probably too early

for me to share yeah absolutely I think a lot of folks are dialing in from their countries and they're there they're

curious whether power ledger is there and will be there and someone has asked what are the biggest challenges in the

u.s. to scale you know whether regulations or incumbents have are a roadblock to that just a fantastic

market really so the main product that we seen a lot of interest for is our tres X product which is the verification

of renewable energy certificates and the trading of those certificates and we estimate that that's probably around a

three billion dollar market and the way we're estimating that is there's about 200 million renewable energy

certificates you know retail in somewhere between maybe ten and twenty dollars but some of them retail for $200

so it's a it's a huge market for us we think that on the renewables certificate side really there is not a lot of

boundaries to scale right now it's really about who can establish partnerships the quickest and who can

provide the most valiant and and the best experience for the buyers and sellers of those certificates yeah um

we've had a few questions come in about getting this started and set up from scratch so if I'm a consumer or

household interested in participating in one of our largest projects how would that come about what do I need on my end

to do to do that so worried about your energy retailer is they would need to be our customer so an energy we're really a

b2b business for energy trading so a retailer would need to open up that feature for energy trading to their

customer base so you know if you have any kind of if you'd like to participate in a college a platform the first thing

to do is to contact your energy retailer yeah absolutely um you mentioned smart meter collecting being kind of core to

to to the platform we have someone asked with smart meter collecting and recording data about consumer usage how

does this work in relation to privacy you know does the consumer on their data just power ledger what's the

relationship there yeah that's a really good question so we have we're very serious about privacy and we have had to

sort all of that out when we've recently entered the European market because as you know you're a keen market is super

strict around GDP are so to get any of our European customers signed on we had to provide a lotta kind of assurances to

them and all around the policies and exactly how the data storage is structured within the platform but

enables kind of full anonymity and ability for individuals to opt out and not to have

their their data visible but on the other hand all we're really collecting is basically two sets of ratings it's

the import and export or consumption and generation plots we have the time stamp and we have

the meter ID so if you opt to skate the meter idea if you have any other number that's replaced an actual meter ID then

there is very little ability to get back to the to the original user so whatever dot a retailer provides to

us it's the retailer's responsibility to ensure that the data has been provided in such a way that it's compliant with

the local privacy provisions right absolutely um we had someone asked what kind of

deals is power like you're doing with grid operators and owners and whether the grid operator is asking for any sort

of fees for this p2p treating if the power ledger system is using their lines that's a really good question so we

think that will greet operators it's it's a really interesting kind of dilemma and it's face that they had deep

in their chosen because in one hand they watched him entertain utilization of the grid because let's say if I have solar

and I don't have a way to sell my excess I might go well the only way I can really save my excess is by installing a

battery and once I've installed the battery I might become fully might wanna become fully self-sufficient and just

opt out from the grid you know write a letter to my network operator saying please just gonna make me out of media

anymore and if that happens that's bad news because then the cost of maintaining the grade falls on fewer and

fewer people so it becomes more and more expensive for people especially for those that can least afford it because

you know the only people that are gonna get left behind other people that don't have enough money to buy solar and

battery so that's not kind of a scenario that any network operator wants to see so then we actually find them quite

helpful in in working with us and we've recently run a number of trials that show kind of the right tariff structure

that needs to be put in place in order to make energy trading even more attractive and in particular the network

tariffs part of your energy bill we think needs to be brought in line with the actual usage that's occurring so

instead of being a flat rate it needs to be a reflective of the part of the network that's being utilized so if the

trading is occurring just between you know two homes that are right next to each other then we only utilize and

they're really small part of the network then we shouldn't really be paying a fee for the entirety of the network so

that's kind of one of the I think ways that that can get resolved and obviously the network operator still needs to make

money because they're providing a very important essential service to ensure that we all have power

so then there is an ability on the platform to set up on a micro fees for every transaction that's occurring thank

you we've had a number of people asked specific to their markets so somebody

asked from sub-saharan Africa you know South Africa Zimbabwe Ghana Nigeria someone in Colombia they said they're

interested in participating how does someone get in contact with Power ledger how does how does that relationship

start so it's a laundry product in a new country yeah so obviously you like our website is the first first place to go

that's Paula ja don't I Oh we also have an email address that's support at college adult IO we also have

a pretty active telegram channel either using telegram where we kind of try to answer as many questions as we can and

engage with everyone that's supporting us so you find that as a official Powergen telegram chat great what we'll

do is we'll follow up with everyone on this webinar and provide the links to that so you can get in touch with power

lender and onion and learn more I'd also like to ask at the consumer level on trading on the platform you mentioned

setting your price what kind of knowledge or education is required in order to do that effectively to

effectively trade energy as a consumer well practically zero because if you can go in and if you can put in because the

interface doesn't look anything like complex kind of trading algorithms nothing like that although that it looks

like it's just you see your own energy usage so you see like helpful graphs and you have a place where um let's say

you're a buyer you just say well anytime energy is below this and I'm willing to buy so you know if you set your energy

buy price at for example zero then the platform will notify you and saying hey you've set it at zero so you're never

gonna buy renewable because no one is actually selling there you'll at zero so we recommend that you

sell it you said it at something a bit higher you probably you know we find that most people set it at below the

great price so if the grid price is 25 you know they want to buy it a bit cheaper so they might set it 17 cents or

something like that some people might actually still have set their minimum buy price at higher than the great price

because they really want to support their community and they want to buy renewable and they're prepared to pay a

bit more for it and say for the sellers you know if I want my energy sold I'm not gonna set the price super high I'm

gonna set it at some sort of reasonable level slightly below the the great price so there is very it's very intuitive and

we do kind of you know poke you a little bit if if you've said something that's completely not it doesn't work at all

right no it sounds definitely like a user-friendly platform um yeah we're kind of we're coming up on

the hour I'm wondering if there's anything else you'd like to tell our audience about our ledger or future

plans you know what's on the horizon for you all well so obviously you know our kind of I think same as for everyone the

last few months been completely different we we tend to travel a lot we tend to speak at conferences and meet

with our customers face to face and we have to transition all of that to video conferencing and as a result

unfortunately I don't feel like we've been able to engage as much with our community so that's you know one of the

reasons that I'm doing this webinar so um I suppose if you would like to know more than definitely go to our website

subscribe to our newsletter and get involved because we we are working in a very exciting space and we do see a lot

of opportunity in Europe United States and Asia in particular and some of the markets that we're not in yet like

you've mentioned someone from Saharan Africa was asking we'd love to get into those mark

I would love to bring that technology there so if there is anything we can do to facilitate that to bring this about

then please let us know well I think so much Anya opportunity is ripe we will send those links around to everyone who

tuned in today and a recording will also be made available online we appreciate your time especially thank you for

joining us in the evening and thank you to the power LED your team for everything you all have done absolutely

thanks all so much for joining us like I said well we'll send those links around in a recording

all right everyone have a good rest of your day bye