The Growing Threat of Internet Regulation and Financial Control

hi Whitney um this has been a long time coming I think uh Danny has been trying to help me get you on the show for a

long time and I know you've been on a bunch of other Bitcoin podcasts but yeah nice to finding meet you nice to finally

get you on the show yeah happy to be here thanks for having me yeah no worries so uh you are very well known uh

very well known in Bitcoin circles but I just it's always good to just give people a bit of a background in case

they don't know who you are if they haven't caught you on other other podcast can you just give a bit of your

background uh yeah so I've been writing uh full-time since I guess about 2016 um and around uh probably the

beginning of 2017 I became a staff writer for mint Press News and then worked my way up to senior investigative

reporter um I left there in probably like March or April 2020 um I did some work for my friend uh Ryan Christian at

the last American Vagabond and then a few months later set up my own website called unlimited hangout um and there um

you know I publish stuff obviously um but also other some other have some contributors as well I have a podcast

also called unlimited hangout though it's kind of been on Hiatus lately because I've had a really crazy year as

some people may know um and yeah I mean in general I basically cover um intelligent Silicon Valley um all sorts

of uh stuff sort of in that sphere but you know with the covid era for example also got into some uh biocurity stuff

and uh you know all all sorts of things uh you know sort of looking at how um governments and and corporations are

ined together and really not any fundamentally different than organized crime um you know uh but lately I've

been doing a lot more on like Financial stuff uh specifically in in banking so well it's a good it's a good show for

me to make them because uh ever since I discovered Bitcoin I've been uh gradually getting dragged down this hole

where I've realized everything I've everything I believed or everything I thought was true isn't true and my

friends think I'm crazy yeah yeah um but so I guess I guess you're a you're like a proper old school investigative

journalist rather than uh I've had Michael mice on the show a couple times he refers to the Maj stream media is

Corporate media but I guess you're proper old school yeah well I mean corporate media

in the sense that like they're beholden to the corporations that own them uh which invariably are any sort of

oligarchs who have their hands in number of um pies that often include illegal activity so you

know definitely different than what I do well so I mean when I got into this I kind of romanticized about investigative

journalism like the old school journalist who went out to find a story and do do a proper job but I kind of

feel like there's less and less of that about now um I mean the economics change but you've probably got a view on it

yeah well I think um you know so I I mean obviously the old days of investigative reporting you know it's

it's a lot different because of how online and digital everything is including like archives of old um

newspapers and and documents of of that nature so you know I don't live in the west and I haven't for probably the last

decade plus um but I care a lot about Source material and like quality Source material and building a a story based

off of uh that and supplying all those sources in my article so that ideally though obviously it doesn't always

happen uh but that ideally people who read my work would check those sources and if they're interested you know

pursue um you know uh their own research because I mean it's not really about like I don't want you to necessarily

take my opinion or or take you know uh what I have to what I write about it it just face value and just like believe me

and like no believe the source material because it matters and I'm not like making this up um because you know

corporate media right mainstream media whatever uh They Don't Really Supply their sources a lot of the time for

certain things or they site you know a national security official and don't challenge what they have to say at all

or like add any important historical context about how maybe that official got caught lying during the Iraq War for

example or all sorts of kind of stuff like that so I try and add that kind of context um and frankly though there's

like a lot of stories that just don't get covered either by Main Street Media or even Independent Media so much of

Independent Media today is focused on like complaining about mainstream media coverage and not necessarily reporting

on original stuff which I think is actually kind of a big uh problem because I think at this point we all

know that mainstream media sucks right um so there's definitely a need to like try and find the stories that aren't

being covered because there's I mean a lot of stuff I think even tooo intentionally like some of the tactics

of mainstream media and the people that control them is to put out a story that's like intentionally

annoying and outrageous so that everyone focuses on that and doesn't focus on other stuff in in the new cycle and

other important stuff that is happening you know slips through the cracks it's it's funny when you start to recognize

and start to see it everything's becomes a lot clearer um but that first kind of Step of recognizing it uh and seeing it

for yourself and and it's it's a it's a tough kind of barrier to break through where you realize hold on that none of

this makes sense I mean it's like we live in this world a big coin is a great example you know I'm an advocate for it

I travel around I try and make documentaries about it I try and look at the economic situations of different

countries and then and I understand the good that Bitcoin can do I also understand the risks associated with

that you know I have a full picture but we have so much press writing about Bitcoin so negatively and incor

incorrectly it makes me go well what else are they incorrect around um i' I found it a bit of a a struggle but then

I found the bigger struggle is you know my friends in my Normy circles try and explain these things to them without

sounding like a lunatic I think they they look at me like I'm Alex Jones they're like oh he's some crazy guy but

it's trying to actually make them understand that the incentives that are behind this um yeah I don't know if

you've had similar St no absolutely well I think the easiest way to reach people in that sense is to be like are you

aware that Bankers lie and engage in illegal activity to expand their money and power right are you aware that those

same Bankers like you know or you know CEOs or whoever uh are the bulk of donations to politicians and own the

political parties would they use that leverage to get what they want policy-wise I mean you have to build off

of that to stuff that like people sort of are aware of and then be like well the fact that these guys have never been

held accountable for anything what do you think they're going to do after decades and Decades of no accountability

and and Brazen criminality how far do you you think they'll take it right um and that's how you can sort of get some

people but obviously there's going to be people you know who are resistant to seeing things for the way they are

because you know some people just um uh for whatever reason feel too uncomfortable engaging with reality

sometimes you know they don't want to face the fact that you know the government and corporations are like

extremely um you know doing insane illegal stuff that's uh killing people or uh stealing insane amounts of money

uh from people and ruining people's lives because they're like well I can't do anything to change that and I don't

necessarily think that's true but some people interpret it that way and they're like I'm better off not engaging with

this and they prefer to like you know stick their head in the sand so to speak um so that kind of stuff is harder to

engage with I think but I think people that are open to figuring out um the things you know you can sort of think of

ways to start are at like a a common denominator where we agree um about incentives for the powers that be and

build off of that all right well listen let me let me give us a setup for where I am

personally um so in my uh in my very British way I've uh struggled to really truly accept where we are in the world

like I'm a I I was born in the' 70s but I'm a child of the ' 80s 90s ughs which were relatively stable decades uh

obviously we had a crazy Iraq war which we were Allied into but generally speaking I thought the most crazy stuff

the world had experienced was from the history books you world wars you know crazy [ __ ] that went on then now we're

in 2023 and and I'm reluctantly accepting that there's these different scenarios I

map out of my head I can see a scenario where parts of the world a war could escalate into World War I I'm seeing the

potential rise of tyranny at a global level because of the state the global economic finance and debt is in and then

I'm also looking at Ai and thinking this this AI is pretty cool but what what happens when we put the AI at

a robot and give it a gun and so now I'm starting to think hold on this world's [ __ ] mad we could be heading to a

really dangerous place what should I be doing should I mean you said you've left the West if sounds like you've escaped

the West I'm like should I be building a bunker in my garden you know should I be stacking tin pineapples or am I do I

just sound like some crazy conspiracy theorist help me out well you know I definitely think it's probably I mean so

think about what happened during covid and there were all these s signals sent by powerful people that um something

greater than covid would soon be upon us whatever that is so whether it's a giant War another world war of that sorts or

you know something else covid 2.0 what we saw during covid insane issues with inflation that persist right um and uh

insane supply chain issues it's probably a good idea uh to have a supply of stuff you need to survive in your house I mean

for X number of days weeks months whatever I mean that's different for every person but it's definitely not I

mean it's definitely not a bad idea and I don't think it's a tinfoil hat thing to say like oh I'd like to be able to

feed my family if uh they close all the grocery store I mean we sort of saw with Co like how insane it was I mean in in I

live in Chile and in South America and I mean when covid started there was some insane stuff there where you had to like

show papers to get into grocery stores and stuff for a time like that could come back you know I mean it's not as

crazy now as it might have been like four or five years ago to talk about to talk about that stuff and there's

nothing wrong with being prepared there's probably something more wrong with being not prepared all you know

yeah Co was probably my my biggest wakeup call in in that I got a lot of stuff wrong you know I believed at the

time uh that I was convinced that yeah lockdown for two weeks that sounds like a good idea because there's this crazy

virus that we're seeing people drop dead in China for there's problems in Italy and I think that was my wakeup call

through all of that I got by the time I got to end Co I was like oh you [ __ ] idiot you've been lied to about

everything you've believe everything and that that I think I came out of that with the [ __ ] I don't trust anything

anymore you probably shouldn't it's probably safer yeah so what I don't know Whitney when I look at

something like covid because like I can go as far as saying governments are incompetent and I can see the stupidity

of the decisions they made true but I know other people go back a step further and go no no co co was the plant to test

these things and I don't know how far to go with it yeah well I mean it obviously depends on the thing you're talking

about um but you know a lot of times um government incompetence like is the excuse so I mean just talking about like

uh like Financial policy and stuff I mean uh you can I think it's easier to pick aart like in those cases because

you can see the obvious like in who benefits and who doesn't sometimes more easily and they'll like sort of be like

oh well we just you know like when the FED printed a bunch of money during Co and gave it to like Black Rock to manage

like was that incompetence especially when Black Rock like wrote a plan at the end of 2019 of the monetary policy that

the FED followed exactly when covid happened about what the FED would need to do during a unforeseen crisis I mean

it's just like was that incompetence or is that corruption you know and I mean a lot of times they try and absolve

themselves of like OB when they sort of get CAU or start to get caught for something corrupt they'll be like oh

don't look any further we're just really stupid you know um but if you consider just like the massive amount of wealth

transfer that's happened in the past 20 years to like the people at the very top um obviously well I I think it's obvious

but I mean that can't all have been because of incompetence you know and more and more

has come out like with Co too like um you know the safe and effective stuff about the vaccines and we I mean a lot

of people in alternative media knew it was experimental and that there wasn't enough testing and stuff and they were

uh censored and then the stuff was forced on people through mandates and and things like that like was that

incompetence um you know I mean they knew then what a lot of people in alternative media knew

then they being you know the people in charge and they still put it through anyway and now there's like they're

acting like it didn't happen you know yeah some of the Sens ship stuff has been a little was a little bit insane

then and has carried on it's only going to get more insane really how bad yeah because they're trying to put AI in

charge of the internet and not just in charge of censoring what's on the internet but also having AI make the

Lion Share of online content so supposedly by 2025 generative AI like chat GPT is going to produce like 96 or

something percent of everything you read online which means their uh mainstream media journalists are going to be like

completely placed by I think there have been some magazines that have been caught using chat GPT to write their

stories already I think Sports Illustrated was one um but wow only going to get only going to get crazier

and so when you have ai both like producing and then curating I.E censoring you know everything you know

then AI dominates the information environment and whoever programs Ai and stipulates like what information is okay

and who isn't has like unprecedented control and when you consider that most people today get their information from

online or you know digital sources that's unprecedented uh control uh of what people not just how the

information that people like read and and receive but also I mean you're manipulating people how people perceive

um reality and that obviously translates into how people behave and actually uh Henry Kissinger who I'm sure you know

died recently and the guy that he named as his Heir which is Eric Schmidt the former Google CEO wrote a book on

explicitly about that and how AI is basically going to control how we perceive

reality uh by taking control of online content in its entirety and that us becoming increasingly dependent on AI

for everything is going to cognitively diminish people so that we won't be able to perceive reality or make sense of

anything without AI doing it for us it's gon to be lot have you seen the you Wally or Wally uh yeah like maybe

years and years and years ago mhm where the people yeah in the pods drinking

milkshakes yeah but worse than that because it seems like they're sort of like you know they have some sort of

cognitive faculty left uh what Kissinger and Schmidt say is that people are going to lose that and it's the plan that they

lose that maybe they just won't need us anymore well I think you know if people

can't uh control how they perceive reality they're no longer capable of of critical analysis and thought it's very

easy to decide what you do with people so where does that put you then in terms of AI are are you Pro the

technology I have a lot of opinions I don't iar them yeah I don't use them um I mean I think the whole idea of getting

a lot of people to like use chat GTP and all of this stuff is to lead us down this path that Kissinger and Schmidt

among others uh sort of are charting out for Humanity where if you I mean just I mean it it's

it's pretty much common sense though like if you develop a skill um and then don't do it for 10 or 15 years for

example you kind of forget how to do it right or even you know I graduated from University like a little more than 10

years ago how well do I recall the stuff that I I took in University not great right so there's this whole idea of if

you don't use it you lose it so if people are depending on AI to tell them where to turn when they're driving

their car and you know no one use uses like actual Maps anymore I mean I understand that it's convenient right

and I'm not saying like oh we need to go back to the 90s right but you know I every it becomes after a while a

slippery slope where people are just having the computer tell them everything to do every step of their lives ends up

becoming micromanaged to an extent um and the idea is that AI through all the data that it absorbs about us knows so

much about us some of these people say it knows us better than we even know ourselves um you know there's that

allows for an unprecedented degree of manipulation and the problem is is that the people uh producing and programming

Ai and ultimately controlling Ai and what it can do do not have our best interests at heart and it is not a good

idea to basically hand them our brains in a bag you know like we should keep those I've

been using AI for work a little bit yeah I mean a lot of people do um like a more advanced search engine yeah totally but

who who owns AI right uh it's pretty much Silicon Valley company so like even open AI Sam Altman's thing uh that's

essentially like owned by Microsoft right and so you have what Microsoft Google Amazon uh Oracle all of these

companies essentially own like almost everything um and all of those companies are contractors for military the

military and intelligence right guess throw paler in the mix too and uh when you consider something like paler they

profile people they suck up all of your data and then they profile you um and paler can profile like whether or not

they deem you subversive or not and what happens when AI you know gets of that and gets put in

control of things like humanitarian Aid like they're talking about doing um or in charge of um you know the government

itself which is also talked about in the Schmid Kissinger book um it gets complicated so you know a lot of people

have been talking about the coming sort of like social credit Paradigm for example so what happens if there's a big

crisis uh your country is like a war zone or the the economy collapses and you're dependent on humanitarian Aid or

some sort of aid from the government or uh some other group and there isn't enough for everyone right and so they

decide oh well it's fairer to put super intelligent AI in charge of it and then that AI is like oh well this person's

been very compliant and has committed all of these thought crimes but not you you know who is it going to decide to

give the food rations too and stuff like that you know that's the risk of a lot of this stuff when it gets put in charge

of too many system um and then there's like a whole other side to it when when you're dealing with

stuff like AI Weaponry which we're seeing being used right now in the Israel Gaza conflict to a significant

degree where they're deciding assassination targets uh you know suppos people that

they they're deeming to be Hamas Affiliated which no one knows exactly how they're determining that I mean it

could be someone who is a second cousin of someone in Hamas or something um we don't really know because there's no

transparency but obviously the fact that they've gone from before this AI algorithm to identifying something like

15 to 20 targets a day to identifying hundreds of targets a day something's going on and there's a huge issue there

with what if that AI uh is using you know social media activity to decide who lives and who dies literally and what

happens when that gets that goes that I mean that kind of Technology gets exported I mean Israel's Tech sector

specifically is known for testing um all sorts of tech on Palestinian surveillance tech and and weapons Tech

and then they export it abroad Israel's uh you know defense Tech and defense industry is massive it's like I think

one of the biggest parts of their GDP right so you know this isn't just going to stay there and AI Weaponry has also

been tested in Ukraine to a significant degree and there's a lot of people the same people that own that created paler

essentially Peter teal you know a lot of that money is behind you know the AI Weaponry stuff today

um that's troubling stuff and then there's another issue of whether AI is actually accurate or not um so you know

they'll say uh like with with facial recognition I think there was um uh a a a report a few years ago in the UK that

a lot of the facial recognition stuff that the the Met police and and other law enforcement groups are using are

insanely inaccurate uh but they want to not they want to continue using it and like deepen it involvement in

identifying people whether it's like at Live Events and all sorts of stuff um and I mean it was insanely inaccurate I

mean I can't remember the exact amount but it was like under 50% accurate so like flipping a coin is more accurate in

that case and what happens when AI algorithms that choose who lives and who dies uh you know are put in charge of

stuff and they're like 70% accurate or less because I mean the government's really corrupt with contractors like

they don't always pick the best contractor for the job so someone has connections that gets their AI in charge

and they oversell their their Ai and say it's 90% metri uh 95% accurate but it's not audited by an independent company

right and so it's actually like in reality 65% accurate or something and you're putting it in charge of like

stuff that has a major effect on people's lives that kind of stuff is happening and it's I mean I'm talking

about stuff that hasn't necessarily quite happened yet but we're headed there uh yeah I mean it's pretty bleak

uh well so so I know I know on Twitter I'm pretty sure I've interacted with uh AI Bots now like there's the

very obvious ones that you can tell there's the very obvious ones you're like I know that's an AI bot because

they they see something I post and they write a automated response to that but there's other times where I've started a

conversation on hm I think that's like I haven't been 100% sure it's an AI bot you know in your head you're like

there's a suspicion there but also I've used AI to create content sometimes if I'm in a rush like silly things like a

own a football team write my program notes I just put in the things I want to say and let the AI write it but clearly

if I'm doing that people are going to be doing more advanced things but kind of put me in this place

Whitney where I'm thinking it feels like the internet is going to become unusable like I might just reject it it's going

to become very different uh for a lot of different reasons so I guess the risk with using like chat GPT or generative

AI for example is like if you use it too much that like you can't write without it right that's like the stuff people

need to try and and manage I think um and as far as you know what happens when all the content becomes chat GPT

essentially right I mean it's not really going to be very useful to people but there's a lot of people that aren't

really going to be able to notice so much uh the difference because it's like legible English and it kind of makes

sense and you know uh but it's not going to be like human thought anymore uh though there was a problem identified I

think several months ago that once you know these AI algorithms start training off of data that humans didn't produce

and it it's training off of data or like content that It produced itself or another generative AI uh produced it its

output becomes like goobly guck nonsensical stuff um so I mean it might just break itself we'll see what happens

or if they're able to I guess remedy that um but regardless of that the internet is going to change a lot and

this is a very like separate thing than what we've been talking about so far but there's a a deliberate push to regulate

the internet so before we go into that can I ask you one more question about AI then of course is there any good you see

in it I mean yeah I mean obviously there is some truth to the fact that it does make certain things more convenient it

does uh technically free up certain people's jobs so they can have more time to do other stuff yeah the problem is

literally the worst people in the world are in charge of it um and they want to use it to make

everyone basically a complete idiot that's super easily manipulated and controllable and that is what needs to

be resist resisted so you know if someone wants to make like an open- Source AI that I don't know does some

stuff I mean I'm not going to be like no don't do that but you know uh I think it's very important now more than ever

to divest as much as possible from Big Tech you know Google and Oracle and you know all these other companies Amazon

what have you uh because they have too much power the people in charge have obvious problematic

agendas um and they basically at least in the US they own the government I mean they basically control the government

the tech billion fund almost all the politicians uh they have access to all of the data of the military and

intelligence agencies and frankly uh the Silicon Valley companies and the National Security state in the US have

fused 100% they are the same blob you can't tell where one ends and one begins anymore that's highly problematic that's

fascism right when corporations and government fuse so yeah Silicon Valley fascism has arrived at least in the

United States I think a lot of people just haven't realized yet so those companies we cannot feed

and they feed off of our data they've been saying for years data is the new oil so instead of the oil baronss of the

early 20th century these are the data baronss of now we need to divest from them if we do not want them to have

extreme intrench power because a lot of these guys are transhumanist um with the view that

humans must merge with machine not that the humans that want to merge with machine can right and a lot of this

stuff becomes like highly problematic um after a while in including a lot of their Visions for how Human Society

needs to be organized you know they're very clearly the majority of them not interested in democracy at all they're

interested in some sort of technocracy um or some sort of authoritarian very controlled

environment you know I don't know if you like avoid talking about people specifically but I put out there any way

so where are you with Elon Musk then because uh he he seems to be splitting the crowd he is splitting the crowd but

I think that's by Design yeah the I mean the acquisition of Twitter he's been very much along the

lines of like I Pro I promote free speech I promote free speech I still stand by the the fact that he um

censored the Turkish opposition during the elections at the bequest of the government and then uh there were

defendant of him saying well this this was it would have been illegal and they would have shut down Twitter in turkey

and I was like well yeah I mean that's still bending bending the knee but but he is also somebody who talks about you

know climate change and he's one of the people who's done the most for it I'm just hugely suspicious of somebody with

that much power you should be hugely suspicious yeah but but he does seem to have a lot of PE a huge crowd of people

who are supporters of his and believes he's a Bastion of free speech and freedom and it's particularly uh backed

by yeah someone I like Joe Rogan seems to be a good friend of his I like listening to Rogan's podcast Tucker

Carlson who I not a huge fan of seems to be he seems to have co-opted all the the large voices to be a supporter of his

yeah so people need to keep in mind that a large amount of alternative media uh gets money from what I refer to as the

verse um with meaning Peter teal right um but really more broadly it's the PayPal PayPal Mafia as it's been called

people affiliated with PayPal to various degrees which of course includes uh Elon Musk they have a lot of influence alter

over alternative media and even over uh content platforms like Rumble um and have been funding quote

unquote libertarian movements and all of the stuff but I don't really see them as being libertarian at all so like taking

Peter theel as an example you know Peter theel claims to be uh a Bitcoin maximalist right and then he goes after

he says that um on a panel next to then CIA director Mike Pompeo and says uh Bitcoin is a Chinese Financial weapon

against the US dollar um right and then terms of libertarianism you know um Peter theal says he's a Libertarian but

instead uh he created paler which is the most uh insane surveillance tool that the CIA has

today so you literally handed the worst part of the state the worst tool possible but you're a Libertarian and

you're against State overreach um and so similarly Elon Musk has you have to look at the actions of musk and then what he

says and not enough of people uh do do that whether it's for musk or really anyone you have to look at people's

actions not just what they say because someone can say all the right things and then you know be totally [ __ ] you

behind your back and if you're just going to take what they're telling you and the excuses and whatever I mean

you'll never figure out what's actually going on and I think that's fair for Elon Musk as well did he buy Twitter to

say Free Speech or did he buy Twitter to have a mass of data to train AI on and to train all other sorts of products he

has on um or did he make it like he's openly admitted did he buy it so he can turn Twitter now X into X the everything

app that doesn't just become uh you know a made you know isn't just social media it becomes half of the financial system

and becomes American WeChat which of course we chat in China uh is

a the everything app means you have all the data basically if people use it for everything it accumulates more data than

everything else and it has all the control has all the control so you know people

are naive here I think because I mean El Elon Musk is the richest man in the world but is he the richest man in the

world just because of his own entrepreneur entrepreneurial whatever or is it because his companies were held up

by government subsidies that allowed him to become rich and he's the richest man in the world because he worked with the

state there okay yeah right let's yeah yeah his company SpaceX is currently a contractor to both the military and

intelligence communities yeah its success is contingent on those contract SpaceX and

his entire trajectory up to this point has been contingent on government subsidies or things of that nature

that's a problem well look I'm not an investigative journalist like you I haven't gone as far down the rabbit on

these things but I just was very suspicious of the censorship of uh the opposition uh uh I I think it was

opposition journalists I can't remember it's actually opposition politicians in Turkey during the elections and then I

saw a photo of Elon Musk I think perhaps even with his son in Turkey doing a rocket deal with erdoan and I'm like

H he still censors people he's I mean Twitter new Twitter still censors people and they have a plan for like the US

2024 election about how to censor people the CEO of EX Twitter Linda yakuro or whatever her name is has said it's

freedom of speech not freedom of reach that's still Twitter policy so you know I mean he can say mus can say all the

stuff about Free Speech but how far does it really go um he censored the account that showed where his private jet is

going which is like publicly available information you know uh these guys um again you know there's

this famous guy from the US who was very influential in his time name Albert Pike right who was very influential with the

powers that be and you affiliated with Freemasonry and said something to the effect of every time the people want a

hero we will supply him right Elon mus toy seems to be one of those figures uh why do people for some reason see him as

this Tony Stark Iron Man kind of guy well uh the Iron Man movies uh were funded largely uh or they had a

significant I forget the exact amount but a very large contract with the US military while Elon Musk has companies

that are also Affiliated at the time with the US Military and Robert Downey Jr decides to model Tony Stark and Iron

Man and whatever after Elon Musk and Elon Musk M makes an appearance in the movie and then people years ago start

affiliating Elon Musk with This brilliant scientist who's going to save us

all right and how far have things progressed since then you know what I mean and

remember El too is making a brain chip um that's killed like half of not half but a significant amount of the monkeys

it was tested on and now they've gone to human trials or starting human trials um if I was a altruistic guy that

just wanted to make a brain chip sorry it just sounds insane to even say that um but anyway I wanted to make

this this thing this product that goes in people's bodies and half of the animals die or like a third or whatever

die I would go back to the drawing board and find a way to make it so it doesn't kill that many animals before human

trials um that's yeah if we start killing humans with that it's not going to go well no um it's weird and then you

have the fact that he said stuff like X is as uh meaning Twitter as Humanity's Collective Consciousness and all this

he's involved in the generative AI stuff too he helped create open AI he has his own now um which is allegedly more farle

than open AI chat GPT is even though he's positioned as being the opposite I mean there's a lot of contradictions

there so again I would encourage people to look at people's actions and you know musk is a businessman and a businessman

tied to the National Security State at that I mean these are not the kind of people that you should just trust um

naively and blindly and you should scrutinize their actions uh and not just pay attention to the nice things they

say or oh he said the FW on New York Times dealbook and gave those advertisers the middle finger you know

um there's a lot of stuff he is doing that is not good and people um you know need to be wary of this whole issue push

to turn Twitter or X into part of a key part of the financial system that you'll use to pay for everything because at the

same time we're having this push to totally remake money whether it's to a cbdc or a heavily regulated stable coin

or deposit tokens or any of this programmable money stuff and obviously at some point if you if we let it happen

that programm programmability aspect is going to be informed by what people say on social media um so it's a slippery

slope and do we want to give any one person let alone the richest man in the world that kind of power just because

like occasionally he'll smoke a doobie on Rogan and say the f- word on TV I mean I think that's

naive yeah so so who who do you like is is there anyone out there that you do who do you respect who do you look to as

a good signal that's somebody I like I I respect that well you mean in terms of like

celebrity not celebrity because I mean more like um in business politics media who out there would you say you know

that's somebody I can I can trust you know um don't trust any I mean I'd have to think about it because honestly it's

very few I mean in US politics you know there 's only a a very small handful of politicians at the national level that

seem like they even have a shred of Integrity I guess maybe Thomas Massie of Kentucky would be one uh but there's

really not that many uh they're very few and a lot of times when they are there they get their District gets

gerrymandered they get voted out um or you know as long as they control the bulk of the legislature it doesn't

really matter if there's one or two or three people with Integrity in it because their voices and votes get

drowned out right um so again what I try and tell people is um frankly it's very hard to trust these

people because so much of it is controlled you know a lot of my work historically is focused on blackmail of

how intelligence agencies have blackmailed uh whether it's politicians or Business Leaders or any other sort of

influential figure in order to control their behavior and thus control the behavior of regular people

right um so I mean this is stuff that people need to keep in mind and ultimately I think a lot of um there's a

lot of cultural issues with celebrity in the west where people are waiting have been trained to wait for a

political savior who's going to come and save us of all of our problems and no one actually has to do anything and we

can just sit back and wait for the right person to run for office and then we all vote for them and then this one person

is magically Gonna Save Us from all of our problems people have sort of been primed to feel that way I mean you can

maybe like superhero movies and religion maybe and all other sorts of stuff has shaped us to be like that culturally but

that is a problem what we should do is take responsibility for what we need to survive and what our communities need to

survive and you know get as local as possible and not be so dependent on these people at the national level or

assume that one person uh can fix everything because that hasn't worked and I mean things are more complicated

now than they've been in a very long time and can we really wait for the right person and put our all our trust

in this theoretical one person who's going to save everything I don't think so um I think that time is better spent

you know learning how to do some stuff yourself taking responsibility for uh your own life and and your well-being

and your family's wellbeing right um I mean a lot of people in alternative media are going to promote certain

figures I maybe they're funded by them maybe they're not right um but ultimately you know a lot of what keeps

the current system in power is our trust in it or our you know like the financial system in particular right you know

trust is super fundamental to that but it doesn't deserve our trust right the current system and so we need to

withdraw our consent and uh from the system and our trust in these people who have spent decades and decades and

decades screwing everyone over you know it's time to put our trust in people who actually deserve it and a lot of times

in any one person's life you know the people you actually know you can trust are people you know at the local level

and so I think you know it's time to kind of start there and you know that sort of leads into the whole idea of

like decentralization also that like the more power goes back to the local level the less power the national or state or

whatever uh has you know and there needs to be a a power shift towards the public and towards the people and we can't just

wait for the right politician to be put in charge of the state to give that to us right we have to do that um ourselves

because as we've historically seen the state whether it's capitalist or communist uh accumulates more money and

power for itself with that said your neighbor Argentina uh mle's recently gone into power and does appear to be

somebody who is trying to decentralize power to some extent you would think so I say that guarded you would think

yeah you should because the guy he put in charge of uh the finance ministry is the former like top guy in Latin America

for JP Morgan and Deutsche Bank which are also like the Jeffrey Epstein Banks um and personally people that have um

you know been pillaging Latin America uh monetarily for a long time and I mean supposedly he was going to dollarize now

he's not but essentially most of the people he's put in charge of the economy are people were um already in government

under Mauricio mree who is the administration before this most recent outgoing Administration who under them

there was a major economic crisis in Argentina I think it was like 2018 or something so these aren't

necessarily anti-establishment people yeah wasn't that kind of a coalition though in that they the M the

only way you could get into power was by forming a relation with the the McRee Administration well you could argue that

in malle's case right because he wanted uh the center right politician who was running Patricia bullick to back him and

that support her support of Malay was brokered by mree himself you can argue that but ultimately Malay is signing off

on it right and Malay is the one that just went to the US and like had meetings with Bill Clinton and uh has

had chummy meetings with the head of the IMF and all of this stuff and as someone who knows a lot of people who are from

Argentina and who has been to Argentina and reported from Argentina I can tell you that people in Argentina there's

nothing they hate more than the IMF of course they hate the IMF as they rightly should but what has the IMF been trying

to do in Argentina well first of all Argentina had an economic collapse in 2001 which you can very effectively

argue was engineered by the administration in charged during the 1990s Carlos minhum whose uh economy

Minister was Domingo Cavo and Domingo Cavo was part of the inspiration for mala's dollarization plan and explicitly

uh backed mala's campaign by the way anyway the economy collapses in 2001 uh the guy in charge of Argentina at the

time puts Cavo back in charge of the economy when it's collapsed and then all this stuff starts to happen with all

these crazy IMF deals and obviously you know to deal with the economic collapse and whatnot Central bake policy uh

starts going haywire in Argentina but you could argue that really goes back to the 1980s if not a little bit uh earlier

you know a lot of the stuff that's taken Argentina to where it is now has been it's not just like it wasn't just the

administration that's leaving power this has been something decades in the making uh but anyway what is what has the IMF

been trying to do in Argentina the same thing they've done to countries all over the world uh debt slavery yeah and more

specifically uh forcing states to St to sell public assets to foreign private companies yeah so um what is Malay just

got back from Africa and seen it right I mean I don't know if you know do you know Alex gladstein from the human

rights Foundation I'm familiar yeah he wrote a book uh about structural

adjustment and how the IMF inbs these nations to essentially just rape and pillage the

the resources of these countries so that is what the IMF has been trying to do in ARG and there's a

couple of different things they want um one thing that gets overlooked a lot besides like gas energy resources in

Argentina is the fact that there has been interest for a long time in taking a large amount of uh Argentinian

territory and turning it into its own new state um and so they were trying to do that the IMF through what they call

debt for land swaps which you could argue are now being retooled in for the modern era

as you know debt for climate swaps uh which is a new thing that's uh that exists but anyway um the IMF again

has been trying to take these state-owned assets and give them to private people well essentially a lot of

mala's proposals including dollarization with foreign financing um or some of the stuff put forward by uh Louise Caputo

his Finance Minister um will basically sell off uh those same assets faster to the same foreign you know corporations

and financial institution that would have gotten it through the IMF anyway so it's not really surprising why Malle is

so chummy with the IMF since he won since he won the election you know I'm pretty um pretty soured on on Malay

frankly you know I think it reminds me a lot of uh Trump in the sense of like the campaign energy like campaigning as this

big anti-establishment guy and getting a lot of his base really energized by insulting the political establishment

which deserves to be insulted they're garbage right um but in doing so he gains their trust but he's putting

people from the political establishment in charge including of the stuff he promised to overhaul specifically the

finance Ministries in the central bank so uh we'll see what happens but I would definitely be very skeptical of of Malay

going forward because the idea that he's an anarco capitalist and he's putting uh the former Latin American like head of

JP Morgan and Deutsche Bank in charge of what happens to the economy um that doesn't seem very anarco capitalist to

me that seems crony capitalist to me right I will be even more guarded okay that so we um I interrupted you uh to

ask more about Ai and you were going on to tell me about the uh co-opting of the internet can we uh go back down there

yeah absolutely so yeah there's been a push for several years but now it's gaining an insane amount of momentum and

and steam uh but it really goes back several years uh and the the goal is to have a regulated internet which means

the end of online privacy and anonymity um and they want to do this uh by having people link a governmen issued

ID to their internet access and internet activity who is so in the US um well the well it's come from the government but

it's not a lot of government policy whether it's about this or something else doesn't come organically from the

government it comes from think tanks it comes from uh you know groups like that or even the W the world economic Forum

um that are then given to politicians and politicians legislate and enact and then the state enforces it but it's not

necessarily the ideas of the legislature and the state itself these policies uh and more often than not these than takes

are funded by corporations and billionaires and all of these guys and they also own the politicians so it's

really them creating the policy and they use the state as an enforcer to force it on the public right so that's I guess

the global public private partnership is what um my colleague Ian Davis calls them they right and I think it's uh

pretty fair um he puts the bis at the top by the way of the pyramid uh yeah but this policy uh one of the earliest

iterations of it at least in the United States uh was during the Obama Administration they called it a driver's

license for the internet the idea of in order to access the internet when you set up you know internet connection at

your house the internet service provider links all of your internet traffic to your ID and in doing so the government

and the intelligence arm or intelligence agency of the government then has access uh to not just everything you're posting

and writing online but also everything you read and consume online and everything you buy and everything you

buy to totally I mean this whole push is completely related to ending Financial anonymity and financial privacy as well

it's completely interrelated thing um and I've done uh pretty extensive deep Dives on this uh going back to probably

like 2021 because it's very tied up with how they're likely to force this regulated

internet on the populace because they're not just going to be like let's do this now I mean people aren't going to go

along with it so they need some sort of um event that gets people uh Angry and Afraid and panicking in order to stick

it through so basically this is going to be folded into I guess what I would call a cyber Patriot Act the Patriot Act

being the legislation pushed through in the US after September 11th 2001 right um a lot of which wasn't

necessarily related to anything to do with 911 but was a huge power grab by the state taking advantage

opportunistically of the panic after 911 so they need some sort of event like that to Ram all this stuff through but

the the plans have been on the books for a very long time and it's not just the US it's really everywhere I mean um I

think in uh the UK you have something called like the Online safety Bill uh that's quite similar we have so much

stuff oh we have so much stuff now yeah so yes we have the the Online safety bill which was the uh the death of enter

encrytion but we've also had this week yeah we've had this week richy Sun that come out and say he wants to restrict

social media for anyone under 16 as now which like is entirely un unenforceable but it feels like I'm you have to link

it then to your government issued ID so they can verify what your age is they have all these different excuses a lot

of it like the Online safety Bill uh they'll say oh it's about protecting children but really it's about in

encryption which law enforcement in the UK and the US have been trying to do so hard for years and years and years I

mean Bill bar uh who was attorney general under Trump in the US was like that was his main policy goal was to end

encryption and he talked about it all the time but a lot of people didn't really pay attention I guess but in the

UK it's a similar push because of course as I'm sure you're aware um the UK National Security State and the US

National Security State are very intertwined uh specifically signals intelligence the whole five eyes

Alliance which is obviously includes more countries but it's it's UK and US dominated obviously it's not like

Australia and New Zealand are running the show there you know um yeah so I don't even think it's the UK running the

show I think it it's the US running the show and we may be part of it but we're really subservient to the US well it to

a big extent yeah but then you also have a major like Financial Center that you could argue you know has a lot of the

city of London right you know there's a lot of specul about yeah you know Britain still holding a significant

amount of the seat of Global Financial power but leave that discussion for another time because that's probably not

uh probably have to prep a little more for that kind of conversation honestly but um so in terms of what what we're

talking about with government you know regulation of the internet and and all of this it's coming right we're already

seeing the first signs of it here uh there's an obvious push to censor more speech and Link people's uh speech to

their ID and have it more surveil than ever before uh gutting encryption uh what's the why do they want to do that

so they can read everything that you say and all your transactions follow them all there's a similar effort in crypto

and specifically with Bitcoin uh to criminalize mixers and criminalize any sort of service that affords you

increased Financial privacy and that's they they have criminalized mixes because uh um well I know of at least

three cases where people are either tied up for multi-year uh lawsuits for for the creation of mixers they're money

launderers no right right so that's it's already started but what I'm trying to say is that like the where they want to

take this if anyone uses a mixer they can go after you that's what they want to set up they don't want anyone to have

Financial privacy or online privacy anymore and that's what part of this uh agenda about a regulated internet is and

it directly ties in with stuff like a central bank digital currency at least what people are concerned about a

cbdc uh for which is the surveillance capability and the programmability aspect um you know it's all tied up with

this effort to inter regulate the internet which isn't really fair to say it's regulating the Internet it's more

like taking complete control of the internet a complete coup of the internet for unprecedented surveillance and

control of people's online lives at the same time that you have these same entities pushing for people to live

their lives online as much as possible as part of the fourth Industrial Revolution and all of this other stuff

like we saw in the covid era you know oh we're locking down you can't go out and do stuff in the physical world you have

to be online as much as possible education's online work is online uh you know as much of your life as possible

has to be on online now because you can't go in person to the bank you can't go in person to this you should order

your groceries through your phone and all of this stuff you know so they're pushing us more and more into the

digital realm and at the same time preparing to take more control of the digital realm uh than they have now by a

significant degree and it's not a that's not a coincidence I'm sorry if you think that's coincidental that's very na naive

of you let let me I just ask you something so on this like I'm following the path of everything you're saying and

agreeing and Rec oriz and it's coming I always try and think why why is it happened is it a is it an organic system

of bad incentives which uh appeal to the greed of certain individuals that drive us

towards these bad decisions like the the centralization and and control of power or is it some evil plan is it malice is

it yeah I I just I try and I always come I always always come out on the side of thinking but it's just a it's just a a

system of poor incentives the way humans are the way we act our greed that drives us towards

this but is there like a deep state of malice well okay so obviously when you're talking about the powers that be

there's competing factions right not all of them agree but they agree about a lot of the stuff and a lot of the way these

people operate isn't that similar to how people operated rulers operated hundreds of years ago you know they want complete

and control uh control of of money and and political power and power more broadly because then they can do

whatever they want for themselves and have a double standard for themselves but Force other people to live a certain

way to support their lifestyle right and essentially what we're seeing here is an effort to use

technology to entrench that in unprecedented ways so that there's no more need to worry about the peasants

revolting right um I think that's ultimately it comes down to so as an example you know this this push for a

regulated internet and the end of online anonymity and all of that is directly related to to the fact that it's a

mathematical in inevitability that our debt-based monetary system will collapse at some point and that the banking

system us particularly Wall Street and you know its Global equivalence have engaged in an unprecedented degree of

malfeasant and Corruption and insane Financial gambling uh activities and just like 2008 right that's going to

explode at some point but in 2008 people knew it was the banks and they were mad at the banks weren't they so if you're

the banks and you know that's going to happen again and you're in bed with the intelligence agencies in the government

or in the case of the US you're you own the central bank right um You don't want that to happen again so how do you uh

blame how do you find a way to blame somebody else for the financial uh system and ploting and uh when you bring

the financial system back uh what do these people you know people like Jamie Diamond and all

these top Bankers like what is their ideal scenario for like uh money and how people interact with and and use money

well being able to grift as much as you want and take as much as you want from the people under you without them

knowing or complaining because I mean that's what they've been doing for decades right Wall Street so they want

to keep doing that they don't want to change their behavior so they want to find a way to be able to steal from the

underclass as much as possible without the underclass complaining or or revolting and control how they spend

their money um and and control their financial and and other Behavior so that they can maintain their place on the top

so what we're having is is the engineering of a Neo feudal society where you have the small upper class and

then a massive underclass that the upper class can uh manipulate and control and you know

do whatever they want with as they see fit and so that's what this I think the ambition of this a lot of these various

initiatives we're seeing for unprecedented control and surveillance are aimed at and the goal is to use

technology whether it's AI or any of these other emerging Technologies uh to be able to do that because obviously

there's so much more of us than there are of them and so in order to scale what they want to scale uh to be ble to

deal with the huge difference in size between their class and our class um they feel like you know they need these

emerging Technologies they need Ai and that's why that's why I think I see AI as a largely negative thing because the

people that want to do this are the ones setting it up and programming it and deciding uh what its objectives are you

know wow okay um H see that takes a big shift because I mean I I definitely buy into a bad system of incentives I I do

and but then I I try and imagine a scenario whereby I'm trying to think there's a group of people who are

looking at us peasants and thinking they need to control us the best way to do it is uh to to essentially eviscerate the

middle class and and uh but they've been doing that and the money has been going doing that but I but I sometimes whether

again is that just the bad incentives like poor governments election Cycles mean that they have to keep printing

which drives but designs those incentives and prevents them from being changed oh I just wonder if they're the

incentives are in us as humans like greedy people who are close to the spiger can print it for themselves and

then it has these outcomes but maybe sure but I think you know how do people get into the elite not everyone that's

in the elite today was born into it right I mean they cultivate into their ranks people that are like you know

Psychopaths right you get a tap on the shoulder controlled by greed and all of that stuff to to come flesh it out right

or people they think are talented that they think they can use and then and then and that will you know if they're

offered a big piece of the pie or a big enough piece of the pie will join them right so it's not like these people are

the people that have been there since the 1500s and you know they're all still that today you know what I mean but I

mean in terms of the behavior of like a ruling Elite it's very similar to what it was in the feudal era like in the

Dark Ages which again how did the Dark Ages succeed so successfully in that extreme control of information was all

in the church right no one knew how to read and write but them so it was again centralized control of information and

also of money and we're going to that same Paradigm again but you know for the modern era so all this technology is

going to try and set up those systems for us and uh I think people need to be really aware of all these um you know in

the next couple of years without a doubt there's going to be these events whether it's like covid or 911 or

whatever they're not going to be the same as those but they're going to be these big events that generate a lot of

fear and panic in mainstream media is going to be uh traumatizing people with it and then are going to uh sell a

particular solution and when it comes for the internet or the financial system they're going to make the enemy privacy

they're going to make the enemy privacy 100% And the solution is going to be uh digital IDs and programmable surveill

money it doesn't have to be cbdcs by the way I mean cbdcs I think most people know are likely are going to be that but

it doesn't it's not just cbdcs there is a goal there is a push from the banks themselves some of the most powerful

banks in the world to have at least in some countries a different system that's not a cbdc because with a cbdc they

can't do fractional Reserve Banking and so that's what deposit tokens are all about tokenizing deposits uh and you can

make those programmable and you can surveil them and it's really just like a cbdc but they won't call it that uh but

then the bank controls all the reserves you know and maybe they'll Bank some of their Reserves at the FED uh or whatever

but they they can still do fractional Reserve Banking and credit creation and all of this stuff and not actually have

to keep a onetoone peg of reserves like cbdcs or like a a Fiat Peg stable coin and so there's a push for that too at an

international level it's not just in uh um in the us but it's definitely happening in the US and I would argue